Would you trade God for a Eutopia?

a reply to: ArtemisE

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Those without a dialogue, a RELATIONSHIP with God . . . would logically find it difficult to impossible to understand such an answer.

However, God is not the ultimate Santa Claus; the Supreme Vending Machine; The Eternal Breast Machine; . . .

He IS . . . THE GREAT I AM . . . Infinitely WORTH RELATING TO AS HIMSELF, FOR HIMSELF.

How would one give up their most treasured spouse or child for even idyllic anything?

To even think of doing such a thing would decry the very notion of LOVE, of RELATIONSHIP, of sensible, much less ETERNAL VALUES.

God 'just happens' TO BE

INFINITE LOVE
INFINITE COMPASSION
INFINITE UNDERSTANDING
INFINITE INTIMACY
INFINITE JOY
INFINITE FUN
INFINITE PLEASURE
INFINITE FULFILLMENT
INFINITE CREATIVITY
INFINITE SPONTANEITY

regardless of a long list of external-to-the-RELATIONSHIP . . . stuff

Even a 'godless utopia' would be horribly dull, boring, deadly, confining by comparison.

a reply to: borntowatch

Putting my personal satisfaction first? Yes I am guilty, not in utopia, but in real life where the consequences damage real people
I think you can read in my post that I am a failure and I dont belong in a utopia.

I can read you telling yourself that until you believe it. Which is a little sad to watch, actually.

so lets play some more, are we born in to this utopia with a clean slate and we can do anything we want, or are their laws we follow, or are we like robots? Do we have any will at all, laws, what if we break them....justice???

No idea. I would assume in a perfect world, there would be a perfect solution. That's the definition of utopia.

Oh thats right its pretend,so I will pretend I want a loving caring God who through Jesus welcomes me with open ars, though I deserve far less

...I don't know who beat you as a child, but you need counseling.

first of all in a utopia, everyone could spell correctly.
secondly, the utopias that have been attempted with only a few participants usually ended due to sexual acting out between the loving everyone mentality. (partner swapping, incest, and the like)

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
...I don't know who beat you as a child, but you need counseling.

unless you have a degree in psychology it is better to
leave the assumptions of the past up for self disclosure.

Afterinfinity, what a presumptuous egotistical condescension about this mans histoory.

when you point one finger at another there are three pointing back at you and one at God.

a reply to: ArtemisE

It'd never happen because you would nto be allowed to advance you'd have to discredit everything you hear and see therefore go deaf blind and dumb......shouldn't have to say no more.

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
...I don't know who beat you as a child, but you need counseling.

unless you have a degree in psychology it is better to
leave the assumptions of the past up for self disclosure.

Afterinfinity, what a presumptuous egotistical condescension about this mans histoory.

when you point one finger at another there are three pointing back at you and one at God.

He is right but very wrong.
Dont worry about it, one of the joys of Christianity is the sledges and attacks we as Christians should endure, as opposed to do the attacking.

Dont worry, I can let it go.
Thanks for defending me anyway, appreciate it

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
...I don't know who beat you as a child, but you need counseling.

unless you have a degree in psychology it is better to
leave the assumptions of the past up for self disclosure.

Afterinfinity, what a presumptuous egotistical condescension about this mans histoory.

when you point one finger at another there are three pointing back at you and one at God.

He is right but very wrong.
Dont worry about it, one of the joys of Christianity is the sledges and attacks we as Christians should endure, as opposed to do the attacking.

Dont worry, I can let it go.
Thanks for defending me anyway, appreciate it

See, look at this masochistic mindset. You revel in martyrdom. It's sick. You cut yourself down repeatedly because you're under the impression that this makes "God" happy. What kind of philosophy is that?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity


See, look at this masochistic mindset. You revel in martyrdom. It's sick. You cut yourself down repeatedly because you're under the impression that this makes "God" happy. What kind of philosophy is that?

I have come to realise that any utopia is based on relationships with people, not goods and property, that any real utopia is based on helping others and the feelings you receive from their gratefulness, watching them grow, being a part of their lives, not money or goods.

My utopia is not what I own but what I do and who I am with,

Martyrdom is a sacrifice for others, I am not there yet but can see why Jesus died, why He chose to die.
I want to be with Him, not in some self gratifying fairy land.

Most wont understand that attitude because most just want everything for themselves.

a reply to: borntowatch

Martyrdom is a sacrifice for others, I am not there yet but can see why Jesus died, why He chose to die.
I want to be with Him, not in some self gratifying fairy land.

Most wont understand that attitude because most just want everything for themselves.

For billions of years, the point of existing has been to continue existing. Every moment of life is spent furthering the capacity for that life. Wanting everything for yourself is a survival instinct that stems from fighting every waking moment to ensure you have enough resources to survive over the next 8-12 hours. Even now, in the same sentence that you decry self-gratification, you employ the phrase "I want". Odd contradiction of terms, that.

You are either an animal interested in preserving itself, or you are something else which is interested in self-termination as a demonstration of superiority. I'd rather be the animal, honestly, because anything which arises as a result of self-entitlement or disdain for what nature has given me is probably an unhappy road to go down.

No, 1 shall remain with "THE" who freed my Soul from the arms of deception and ignorance. Also who is to say this new utopia isn't another Controlled reality MATRIX- laid out by a Master consciousness brought in to reprogram the LORD out the minds of many only placing those reprogrammed in the bonds of a new leader still? unknowingly to prevent the upgrading process of the Souls here already... And so its another cage perceived to be reality where everyone is happy but casted even deeper into ignorance.

NAMASTE*******

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: borntowatch

Martyrdom is a sacrifice for others, I am not there yet but can see why Jesus died, why He chose to die.
I want to be with Him, not in some self gratifying fairy land.

Most wont understand that attitude because most just want everything for themselves.

For billions of years, the point of existing has been to continue existing. Every moment of life is spent furthering the capacity for that life. Wanting everything for yourself is a survival instinct that stems from fighting every waking moment to ensure you have enough resources to survive over the next 8-12 hours. Even now, in the same sentence that you decry self-gratification, you employ the phrase "I want". Odd contradiction of terms, that.

You are either an animal interested in preserving itself, or you are something else which is interested in self-termination as a demonstration of superiority. I'd rather be the animal, honestly, because anything which arises as a result of self-entitlement or disdain for what nature has given me is probably an unhappy road to go down.

Well thats nice, hope it works out well for you

and no its not a contradiction, I want to serve God, because He sent His son Jesus.
Yes it is about me, but now I know why it is not just about me.

Sounds like you are very unhappy so at least have my best wishes.

Isn't this the same temptation satan offered Christ?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Isn't this the same temptation satan offered Christ?

No. Satan's third temptation was to offer Jesus the world in exchange for Jesus bowing down and worshipping him. Ironic, really, given that that's pretty much what God offers us, right? Eternal life in paradise, the world, same thing.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: ArtemisE

Na

Utopia is overrated.

I dont know why people even entertain the idea. It can be seen as being just as absurd to religious types as atheists say religion is to them.

A utopia would end human progress and desire that has driven us as a species since our inception. It would eventually be responsible for our extinction.

not necessarily, things may go on just like they are except without the pain and suffering, we think and see with limited understanding and imagination

a reply to: borntowatch

Well thats nice, hope it works out well for you

and no its not a contradiction, I want to serve God, because He sent His son Jesus.
Yes it is about me, but now I know why it is not just about me.

Sounds like you are very unhappy so at least have my best wishes.

And you have my best wishes in your journey to assimilation.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: ArtemisE

Na

Utopia is overrated.

I dont know why people even entertain the idea. It can be seen as being just as absurd to religious types as atheists say religion is to them.

A utopia would end human progress and desire that has driven us as a species since our inception. It would eventually be responsible for our extinction.

not necessarily, things may go on just like they are except without the pain and suffering, we think and see with limited understanding and imagination

Pain and suffering are very good reasons to expand the imagination. Without the motivation to keep looking, we stop looking. And we stop moving. And we stop growing. And that's when the rest of the world loses us in the dust.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Isn't this the same temptation satan offered Christ?

No. Satan's third temptation was to offer Jesus the world in exchange for Jesus bowing down and worshipping him. Ironic, really, given that that's pretty much what God offers us, right? Eternal life in paradise, the world, same thing.

I know, but it doesn't seem much different to me

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: ArtemisE

Na

Utopia is overrated.

I dont know why people even entertain the idea. It can be seen as being just as absurd to religious types as atheists say religion is to them.

A utopia would end human progress and desire that has driven us as a species since our inception. It would eventually be responsible for our extinction.

not necessarily, things may go on just like they are except without the pain and suffering, we think and see with limited understanding and imagination

Pain and suffering are very good reasons to expand the imagination. Without the motivation to keep looking, we stop looking. And we stop moving. And we stop growing. And that's when the rest of the world loses us in the dust.

That is because we haven't experienced any other way. Maybe we just think pain expands imagination and knowledge

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: ArtemisE

Na

Utopia is overrated.

I dont know why people even entertain the idea. It can be seen as being just as absurd to religious types as atheists say religion is to them.

A utopia would end human progress and desire that has driven us as a species since our inception. It would eventually be responsible for our extinction.

not necessarily, things may go on just like they are except without the pain and suffering, we think and see with limited understanding and imagination

Pain and suffering are very good reasons to expand the imagination. Without the motivation to keep looking, we stop looking. And we stop moving. And we stop growing. And that's when the rest of the world loses us in the dust.

That is because we haven't experienced any other way. Maybe we just think pain expands imagination and knowledge

If there is no reason to want anything else, you will never look for it. And you will never see anything except for what's right in front of you. And that means you'll never go anywhere or do anything new. Which means you'll never learn, never think, never grow. Suffering is our soul saying that it's time for change.

Trade a relationship with God for a Utopia? Not I.

What God offers me is far greater than anything Man can, or ever could.