Would you trade God for a Eutopia?

originally posted by: ArtemisE


First off, this isn't a thread bashing religion. It's a serious question. I am not at all saying that if religion vanished next Monday, by Tuesday we have a Eutopia. Religion isn't the root of all our problems. This is a geni in a bottle type situation, a hypothetical, not reality.That said.......
Would you trade your personal religion and god, for a Eutopia?
No war, poverty, disease, pollution, rape, murder, or theft, A perfect society. Would it be worth it?

Sounds good, my God for utopia, hmmmm
My problem with this utopia would be me, I would stuff it all up.
I would trade utopia for God, my God who welcomes, cares and loves me.

No utopia can replace that, no utopia deserves me in it.

Sounds like the choice between the anti-Christ and God prophesized.

As is suggested this utopia would be fake then.

But if you truly believed that society quitting God would improve life then the God you believe in is evil. And that would make the answer yes.

not a chance, Op.

how would that work, anyway?

a reply to: ArtemisE

OK... OK... Sorry...

It's actually a good question. A utopia implies, to me any way, life without struggle. Within reason, life should have a bit of struggle in it. Goals that must be striven for. Earning one's way, I guess, is what I'm saying.

You don't have to trade your God for utopia. Most religions teach that there is a utopia provided by God. Christians call it heaven. You just have to live your mortal life the right way (according to scripture) to get there.

God is always around not matter the human religions/views that humans create to try to describe it. To say it clearly religions believe god is on their religions side, many of them could not be more wrong since from a higher level point of view they are all idols of the real deal.

Humans create duality. God transcends duality.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: seagull
Utopia?

who's version? One person's utopia is anothers hell.

But to answer your question? No.

While religion can be hateful, and is all too often, it can also bring great beauty into the world as well. As with anything else man creates.

My thread. My Eutopia, DAMN IT! Lol , just kidding. I guess it petend so everyone gets one.

"It's a serious question."

LOL!

First I had to look up "Eutopia".

I ain't gonna look up "petend".

Simply, YES.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

Would you trade your personal religion and god, for a Eutopia?

No war, poverty, disease, pollution, rape, murder, or theft, A perfect society.

Well...Firstly, the phrase "personal religion" is an oxymoron. Religion is a manmade word conceived to depersonalize and marginalize a one-on-one individual relationship with the Creator.

Secondly, anyone who believes a Utopia can be established without Divine intervention, obviously has no understanding of the human condition.

And thirdly...Nothing or no one will ever cause me to deny my Lord and Savior.

BTW, didn't satan already try this little ruse with Christ?

...the devil took Him to a very high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things will I give you if you fall down and worship me." - Matthew 4:9

To which Jesus responded:

"Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only. (Matthew 4:10)"

originally posted by: ArtemisE


First off, this isn't a thread bashing religion. It's a serious question. I am not at all saying that if religion vanished next Monday, by Tuesday we have a Eutopia. Religion isn't the root of all our problems. This is a geni in a bottle type situation, a hypothetical, not reality.That said.......




Would you trade your personal religion and god, for a Eutopia?

No war, poverty, disease, pollution, rape, murder, or theft, A perfect society. Would it be worth it?

Reminds me of that question where you're asked to choose between saving the life of a poor hispanic family with three kids or that of a single billionaire. Feel good or be rich.

But in answer to the actual question: I would sacrifice ALL gods in return for a perfect society. It's not like the gods of today are doing much good as is, and if their availability for sacrifice means accomplishing what we've been waiting for over the last several thousand years, then why not?

Not to mention that the irony would leave me in hysterics.

Since I'm not religious, but what if we were polytheistic can we trade a lesser god for this utopia jk.

However I believe a utopia is only possible if humans as a collective achieve a higher consciousness or a better understanding for others and the planet. Our selfish desires and natural need to compete would be our demise. A utopia is possible however there would be an elite control over the population to ensure it's function. 1984, Brave New World so us how much control is needed to create an illusion of happiness. So let's just all take more soma and join those orgies Huxley had envisioned for us

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: ArtemisE

OK... OK... Sorry...

It's actually a good question. A utopia implies, to me any way, life without struggle. Within reason, life should have a bit of struggle in it. Goals that must be striven for. Earning one's way, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Agreed. But then there are struggles that have nothing to do with earning a living or making peace.

a reply to: borntowatch

I would trade utopia for God, my God who welcomes, cares and loves me.

It sounds vaguely to me as though you are putting your personal satisfaction above the prosperity of everyone else. I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking for clarification.

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: ArtemisE

I would slit gods throat for a better world.....then again, I would do the same to Santa!

I think Santa may disagree that you slit his throat "FOR" him. Lol

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: ArtemisE
I think your premise starts off false. You're assuming a totally atheist paradigm would equal a social utopia. That just sounds like highly speculative, wishful thinking on the part of any atheist.

Until you can prove to me that atheism would indeed result in a veritable utopia, I can't answer the question. I'm not convinced there is any relationship between the two. I'm convinced people will find a way to make life a living hell for others regardless.

Until then, you're just asking if people want to do away with religion because they already think it would be better that way. Quite a loaded question!

Quite a loaded question? Have you paid any attention to the religious forums lately? Loaded is practically a standard these days. It's only a problem because the shoe is on the other foot now.

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
a reply to: ArtemisE
Then god. Granted all the stipulations that come with him run parallel to religions here in reality. I'll take eternal paradise over 95 years of it.

Well played. Great point, in this world you would have to consider God a givin. You can't trade nothing for a Eutopia. So in this universe there must be a god.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
a reply to: ArtemisE
Then god. Granted all the stipulations that come with him run parallel to religions here in reality. I'll take eternal paradise over 95 years of it.

Well played. Great point, in this world you would have to consider God a givin. You can't trade nothing for a Eutopia. So in this universe there must be a god.

Not so fast. I don't see any utopia yet, and as you said, you can't get a utopia for nothing.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: ArtemisE
I think your premise starts off false. You're assuming a totally atheist paradigm would equal a social utopia. That just sounds like highly speculative, wishful thinking on the part of any atheist.

Until you can prove to me that atheism would indeed result in a veritable utopia, I can't answer the question. I'm not convinced there is any relationship between the two. I'm convinced people will find a way to make life a living hell for others regardless.

Until then, you're just asking if people want to do away with religion because they already think it would be better that way. Quite a loaded question!

Apparently you decided not to read the OP before replying......Well played......lol.

You mean Utopia like this?



If everything were perfect, how would we know?



Part of life is experience, and without the experience and knowledge of both the good and the bad, how do we know what the good really is?

And then, you have to consider that your Utopia and mine may not be the same place and the Utopia of someone else could look entirely different, so how would you build a true Utopia to take all these differences into account? Or would you try to build a place where something like this happens on a regular basis where someone else's idea of Utopia is laid over your own?



Maybe it feels good, but is it really you or someone else controlling you?

Or maybe it's something more sinister where people are controlled and melded into one society of equals through darker means.



This is why Utopia is technically "no place" because it's just a dream, different for everyone.

And, no, I won't trade God for it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe it feels good, but is it really you or someone else controlling you?

The same might be asked of you.

Or maybe it's something more sinister where people are controlled and melded into one society of equals through darker means.

Again, the same might be said to you. For instance, that Orwell video you posted - imagine if, instead of Emmanuel Goldstein's face, it was Satan. Or Lucifer. Starting to make sense now? Hell, there was a point in time at which we gathered at the local stockade in order to take turns throwing stones and rotten vegetables at people who displeased the pastor or the townsfolk.

One society through anger and hate. Fear the witches, burn them. Fear the pagans, burn them. Fear the heretics, burn them. Fear the visionaries and students of science, burn them.