It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

page: 5
37
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Night Star




Perhaps it is there to remind people that such horrors should never happen again.


Yeah, I think that's why they built the memorial in the first place.




posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: windword

People found comfort in the religious interpretation of crossed I-beams.

You would deny them their comfort?


What about the people who are offended that others are claiming that there God ordained and sanctioned the event, and are using territorial religious symbolism to reinforce the sentiment? What about their comfort?



Agreed.

We should deny people the peace of mind that they may get so they won't offend others that are all for killing.

Apologies.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:38 AM
link   
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

This is tragic but true.. After all the banning of whatever beliefs I often wonder what is next on the public agenda.

Perhaps nothing, but maybe the senseless mindsets of these thoughtless warriors, who have nothing better to do than whine, may leech into the private lives of those that celebrate their respective beliefs.

All I can say to them is make your waves but stay outta my household.

Kind regards Bally.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:38 AM
link   
a reply to: Metallicus

It's NOT a weak argument. It's exactly why this group is claiming the the cross if "offensive". Why else do you think people are so offended by this?



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Atheism is opting out of religion. So why, once opted out, do they work so hard to disrupt that which they have no part in by their own proclamation?


Mostly to counter religions endless insistence to try and infiltrate every aspect of everyones life I suspect....an atheist isn't trying to get the atom symbol on bibles or churches, they are simply using it as a united symbol to say there are some that simply aren't into all this..and use it as a call to push it out of tax funded stuff.

I don't like my tax dollars going towards any religion (or war for that matter unless specifically we or our close allies got actually attacked). I think we should have a say.

Incidentally, I don't hate faith...I think faith is actually important in a persons life. I just am opposed to government trying to institute faith....its a personal thing.

I do find a significant irony that the political party in the states that is endlessly screaming about government overreach is the same that is wanting that government to get into the business of religion and using tax dollars to make big idols of their faith...I guess their religion doesn't stand on its own merit and needs a government "bailout".
edit on 22-6-2014 by SaturnFX because: Fixed a thing with some stuff and lines and such



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:42 AM
link   
a reply to: beezzer




We should deny people the peace of mind that they may get so they won't offend others that are all for killing.


All for killing? Like the "hawks" that led us into Iraq after 911, because some people were looking for blood and revenge?



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: undo




christmas tree=pagan symbol
valentine's day=pagan holiday
cross=pagan symbol (the ankh)
easter eggs=pagan symbol


So how can some get so up tight about symbols when most are borrowed from elsewhere ?

Someone is breeding intolerance in Americans .



everyone breeds intolerance. occasionally compassion and common sense, smacks us upside the head. but those times are few and far between and have been since, well, as long as written history has existed.

i freak out (sign of self preservation, a driving force of the mammalian part of this person known here as "undo") when i think i'm threatened or my spouse or my children, way of life, home, country, ideals, etc. then every so often, reality sneaks up and says, hey, those people over there, are doing the same thing. don't be mad at them. they are just like you, protecting their way of life, homes, family, children, etc.

sadly, i don't think this is gonna turn out so good for most of us.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:44 AM
link   
a reply to: bally001

It will eventually start encroaching on private issues as well IMO. I've said it more than once... I don't like using the slippery slope analogy, but sometimes it foots the bill. All of these offended crusaders are fine and dandy trying to obliterate anything and everything they deem inappropriate they never stop to think about what it's going to be like when it comes down to something they believe in, want, appreciate, etc. it never crosses their mind.

As long as the tide is going their way everything is right in their universe. But it isn't always going to go their way and they would do well to realize that.

"First they came for the Jews and I said nothing".... Comes to mind here. The lesson has been learned before, but it appears it will need to be learned again sadly enough.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: beezzer




We should deny people the peace of mind that they may get so they won't offend others that are all for killing.


All for killing? Like the "hawks" that led us into Iraq after 911, because some people were looking for blood and revenge?





I didn't realize that all the people that died on 9/11 were for killing others.

Thanks for that enlightening comment!




posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:45 AM
link   

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Metallicus

It's NOT a weak argument. It's exactly why this group is claiming the the cross if "offensive". Why else do you think people are so offended by this?


Then the morons that brought this suit don't understand the symbol or why it is there. Why should other people be punished because a group of people are too stupid to understand something?



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:48 AM
link   
a reply to: beezzer




I didn't realize that all the people that died on 9/11 were for killing others.



Don't put words in my mouth! I said no such thing.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:49 AM
link   

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SaturnFX

Normally I'd agree with you. But this is a piece of the wreckage that became iconic, it comforted people all across the country when we were shell shocked, it means something to the FDNY and NYPD and to most people that suffered in person that week. It's sentimental and I don't see why it shouldn't be there.

Yes...
ok, fine..let the cross stand
and under it, let a plaque read "Gods Justice on America"

Changes things, doesn't it


or "This atrocity has been brought to you by God...and United"...could be like a billboard..

No...it was a monument to some religious types...in the wreckage, you could also spot thors hammer, a crescent moon, a few indian symbols, etc..why only keep the cross and not all the other symbols? This was not a church, it was the world trade center with every nationality in there, every religion, every culture all working together. the cross is a specific religion, and will alienate the true loss that day, disrespect those whom are not specifically Christian, etc...nope. I know we agree on several things, but here, you are not seeing the full picture.

And its a insult also to Christianity anyhow...put a monument to a religion of peace and love to represent the horrors of humanity? Would Jesus truly approve of the actions there, or the fallout that came after?

They took a really neat picture of firemen working with the twisted iron in the back in the form of a cross, and some people, whom simply couldn't comprehend the total devastation seen it as a comforting symbol of whatever...but in my opinion, a statue of a fireman kneeling down pulling on some rubble would be far more appropriate a symbol to leave there verses a specific religions torture rack idol.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:49 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:52 AM
link   
a reply to: Metallicus

i don't think referring to them as not being smart is accurate. it's just what happens when the tipping point is reached and an idea becomes part of popular culture. some folks will not know why, heck i didn't know why, i had to learn it myself.

the thing that keeps running thru my mind is, treat others how you want to be treated, and since i wouldn't want to be called an idiot, and didn't want to be called an idiot, even when i didn't know what was up, i should afford them the same leeway.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:52 AM
link   
a reply to: windword

You said

All for killing? Like the "hawks" that led us into Iraq after 911, because some people were looking for blood and revenge?


The intersecting I-beams represent the loss and comfort people got from the recovery operation.

YOU brought up killing people.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:54 AM
link   
Why can't there be a small plaque next to it stating, "People took comfort from this interpreted symbol during a really bad time."



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:54 AM
link   
a reply to: windword

Haven't we as a nation had our fill of religious intolerance ?

Salem witch trials
Chasing the Mormons out of Missouri
Wounded knee and a few other great battles
Waco

We saw millions sent to ovens in Germany
and

911

Religious intolerance this war on symbols is just more of the same Intolerance to religion .



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: beezzer
Why can't there be a small plaque next to it stating, "People took comfort from this interpreted symbol during a really bad time."


Because that would be using common sense and there seems to be a mass shortage of it lately.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:01 AM
link   
a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

So, lets just put the 10 Commandments in court houses and schools, teach creationism in schools along side evolution, and let out tax dollars pay for Christian symbolism at all national monuments and memorials too.


If only Christians were as tolerant of us as they ask us non-Christians to be of them.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:02 AM
link   
a reply to: SaturnFX

I get your point, I really do. I'm not Christian nor any religion... I just don't see the need to fight over this one. I'd like to see other religious symbols too. Personally I see it as a crossbar. But it's a crossbar that means something to a lot of people.



new topics

top topics



 
37
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join