Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

a reply to: beezzer

You can lead a horse to water

a reply to: beezzer

"911" belongs to all of America. Why should any religion be represented at all at the 911 Memorial?

Doesn't a religious symbol somehow suggest that the God represented had a hand in the causation of the event? Why do you want to put your God's symbol there where such evil happened? Are Christians claiming was it God's will that those people died, or that your God somehow sanctioned the event. That's offensive.

Any religious symbol at the 911 Memorial seems inappropriate to me.

a reply to: Metallicus
I'm an atheist, I frequent atheist groups on facebook, listen to atheist podcasts, I'm pretty well aware of discussions happening within the atheist community. I said all that to say, that I have never read or heard an atheist say the cross itself was offensive. I did see some get offended by the idea of people looking at the cross as some sort of sign from god. Why? Because many people died that day, it's nothing to give glory to or thank god about. Other than that most of what I've read and heard mirrored what some are saying in this thread. If you are you going to have a Christian symbol, you need to have symbols representing the faiths of all those who lost their lives as well.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Normally I'd agree with you. But this is a piece of the wreckage that became iconic, it comforted people all across the country when we were shell shocked, it means something to the FDNY and NYPD and to most people that suffered in person that week. It's sentimental and I don't see why it shouldn't be there.

a reply to: windword

no, we're hoping (or at least i am) that the people who died there are resurrected to ETERNAL LIFE.
le mew, le sigh. it's an awful sentiment i know. hehehe

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I am old enough to remember the "Live And Let Live" (as long as nobody got hurt) attitude which allowed for much wider acceptance of differences.

I'm with you reux! I am 56 and through the years have seen crosses, the manger, Christmas trees, Menorahs, The Star of David, Chinese New Years celebrations, Kwanza, May Day celebrations etc. No one was offended by any of those things. No protesters, no one being offended

My question is...Why the hell would any symbol of goodness be considered offensive???? That is sick. Something is seriously wrong with this.

Agreed. Especially with your last sentence. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't just religion either. It's EVERYTHING!

When I was young we always had Christmas trees in the classrooms during Christmas. We handed out Valentine's Day cards on Valentine's Day, etc. I don't recall anyone being upset. No children ran from the classroom because the tree upset them beyond measure. Nobody got offended when a boy gave his favorite girl a bigger Valentine than he gave everyone else. Everyone was ok.

We all seemed to realize and understand that there were winners and losers, nice people and bullies, not everyone made the team, etc. and we were all ok with it. Until at one point someone decided everyone and everything had to be regulated and controlled.

All of the sudden hurt feelings and faux offendedness prevailed over anything and everything.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: beezzer

"911" belongs to all of America. Why should any religion be represented at all at the 911 Memorial?

Doesn't a religious symbol somehow suggest that the God represented had a hand in the causation of the event? Why do you want to put your God's symbol there where such evil happened? Are Christians claiming was it God's will that those people died, or that your God somehow sanctioned the event. That's offensive.

Any religious symbol at the 911 Memorial seems inappropriate to me.

The people that have passed away in that event are in a better place now.
People need something to hold on to and believe in and give them comfort. Any religious symbol placed there is for comfort, remembrance and love.

originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: Metallicus

SO why can't we use crosses in school again if this is what the federal judge is saying. Hypocrisy.

I don't care if crosses are in schools or not. See, I don't have a problem with religious people and their symbols. Its you and many others that do and I am still trying to figure out WHY. If you are made so uncomfortable by religious symbols you really have more problems than I can help you deal with here.

ETA: Maybe it reminds you that people of faith have something you don't? Or that you might be wrong? Or that you might die unprepared? I don't know why else something so beautiful to someone else could possibly offend someone to the point of needing to destroy it or censor the beliefs.

Are you afraid that religion is going to be catching? Kind of like some people think they might catch the 'gay' from homosexuals? Aren't we supposed to let gay people parade around in public and not be offended? Are you afraid of rainbows and unicorns too?

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

christmas tree=pagan symbol
valentine's day=pagan holiday
cross=pagan symbol (the ankh)
easter eggs=pagan symbol

atheists don't know it though. or maybe, the real target are pagans? oh that's interesting. well first they have to get thru their stand-ins.

/smooths out cape, grabs staff

a reply to: Night Star

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I am in the same era .

I remembering giving Christmas gifts to classmates who replied happy Hanuka or We dont believe that but trade gifts in friendship even respected the gift.

So much has changed

a reply to: Metallicus

To the offended atheists:

Offended...

OH well I guess your sentiments should be front and center of my giving a damn.

How about you grow up and stop with the butt hurt.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Night Star

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I am in the same era .

I remembering giving Christmas gifts to classmates who replied happy Hanuka or We dont believe that but trade gifts in friendship even respected the gift.

So much has changed

So much has changed indeed. This is not the America we grew up. So many people are offended by things that shouldn't even affect them negatively. It seems mean to me, like the good people are being bullied. To be offended by anything that stands for goodness is outrageous!

a reply to: windword

People found comfort in the religious interpretation of crossed I-beams.

You would deny them their comfort?

a reply to: Night Star

The people that have passed away in that event are in a better place now.
People need something to hold on to and believe in and give them comfort. Any religious symbol placed there is for comfort, remembrance and love.

Yes, teddy bears and flowers, coins and libations, crucifixes and rosaries....but this cross is from the rubble and it represents death, I don't see how it is at all comforting.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Night Star

The people that have passed away in that event are in a better place now.
People need something to hold on to and believe in and give them comfort. Any religious symbol placed there is for comfort, remembrance and love.

Yes, teddy bears and flowers, coins and libations, crucifixes and rosaries....but this cross is from the rubble and it represents death, I don't see how it is at all comforting.

I see what you're saying. Perhaps it is there to remind people that such horrors should never happen again.

a reply to: windword

YOU don't need to understand why other people find comfort in symbols and ritual. The point is...LET THEM BE COMFORTED. Try having some compassion and relax.

a reply to: undo

christmas tree=pagan symbol
valentine's day=pagan holiday
cross=pagan symbol (the ankh)
easter eggs=pagan symbol

So how can some get so up tight about symbols when most are borrowed from elsewhere ?

Someone is breeding intolerance in Americans .

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: windword

People found comfort in the religious interpretation of crossed I-beams.

You would deny them their comfort?

What about the people who are offended that others are claiming that there God ordained and sanctioned the event, and are using territorial religious symbolism to reinforce the sentiment? What about their comfort?

a reply to: undo

Literally lol at your vid and cape comment. That caught me off guard for some reason. I think I am entering the uber silly phase of not enough sleep.

But seriously...I would hazard a guess that a lot of them do not know it. They just know that it is used by a lot of Christians to celebrate a Christian holiday therefore it needs to be removed.

Your pointing that out proves the theory even more. Emotions are being manufactured. As in groups are telling folks what they should find offensive and they go with it without bothering to educate themselves beforehand.

Heck, usually I am so glad when nothing is bothering me... I certainly don't want to continually hunt down something that does. And that seems to be what a lot of folks are doing lately. On everything.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: windword

People found comfort in the religious interpretation of crossed I-beams.

You would deny them their comfort?

What about the people who are offended that others are claiming that there God ordained and sanctioned the event, and are using territorial religious symbolism to reinforce the sentiment? What about their comfort?

That is a WEAK argument and that is most likely NOT what the people are saying, doing or believing. You are arguing something that no one has said or even hinted at as far as I can tell.