Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: _Del_

I believe human rights are sacred. The Constitution of the US is a sacred document. My daughters life is sacred to me. Personally, I find nothing sacred between the pages of the Bible or in the words preached from the pulpit.

So there.

I'd suggest that you don't believe that the US Constitution is sacred. Here is a simple test: are you for it agsinst gun control and/or bans of certain guns?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: undo

We employ democracy to elect officials to enforce constitutional laws. We also have elections to decide how to spend tax dollars and to enact constitutional laws. If we, as the public, vote for unconstitutional laws, the courts, mostly filled will elected judges, some appointed by elected officials, knock them down.

a reply to: _Del_

We'll just have to agree to disagree on those things.

is that how we all got roped into paying insurance companies by government writ? lol
constitutional lol
not that i mind helping those who need insurance, but by government demand? that's not constitutional. we're being forced to pay insurance companies. what a racket!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike athiests who sat back and let better men do the work, found inspiration and solace in that imagery

What an offensive load of dirty diaper stuff! I don't believe that you're an atheist. You disparage the title "atheist".

Lol. "Not a true athiest?" You sound just like the fundies who say somone who doesn't bow down to their particular belief system is not a "true Christian." How intolerant, narrow minded, and bigoted of you. How dare you oppress me with your narrow minded views. I don't believe and part of that non-belief is not caring if someone else believes. If it does not hurt me or robs my pocket, I don't care. That's a philosophy known as "freedom." Look it up.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I'd suggest that you don't believe that the US Constitution is sacred. Here is a simple test: are you for it agsinst gun control and/or bans of certain guns?

Gun control doesn't concern me. I don't own one, because if I did, there'd be dead people all around! LOL I'm not anti death penalty either, although I find it hypocritical.

Lol. "Not a true athiest?" You sound just like the fundies who say somone who doesn't bow down to their particular belief system is not a "true Christian."

Don't put words in my mouth! I never said "true". I said:

I don't believe that you're an atheist. You disparage the title "atheist".

I still don't and you did.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: _Del_

I believe human rights are sacred.

Unless we're talking about the rights of the people who drew spiritual comfort from those two beams because they resembled a cross ... you could care less about their human right to freedom of religion.

And you say that Gettysburg is sacred ground? What do you think about all the crosses there? Are you campaigning to get them removed? I mean, that's not very inclusive. I'm sure not all the soldiers were Christian.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

I'd suggest that you don't believe that the US Constitution is sacred. Here is a simple test: are you for it agsinst gun control and/or bans of certain guns?

Gun control doesn't concern me. I don't own one, because if I did, there'd be dead people all around! LOL I'm not anti death penalty either, although I find it hypocritical.

Lol. "Not a true athiest?" You sound just like the fundies who say somone who doesn't bow down to their particular belief system is not a "true Christian."

Don't put words in my mouth! I never said "true". I said:

I don't believe that you're an atheist. You disparage the title "atheist".

I still don't and you did.

Nonsense. I may have a different take on the philosophy than you, but you disparaging me and calling me a liar is just as offensive and ignorant as those fundamentalist Christians talking about the "purity" of their religion which is open to numerous interpretations. I don't believe but, and the majority if atheists agree with me, that lack of belief dies not automatically translate to hatred of those who do believe.

Nice side step. That intellectually dishonest. Do you support gun control or not?

If you had a gun, there would be a lot of dead people around--that's very telling of your personality and an inability to live and let live.

a reply to: Metallicus

I don't know.
Doesn't offend me.

originally posted by: Metallicus


Finally some common sense from a Federal official. I am not Christian, but I have never been offended by a cross or statue of Buddha or anything else religious. I am not even sure WHY I should be offended. I can't wait to hear the explanation provided by the Atheist group because this has always been a baffling thing to me.

Source

Why?
Because most religions are harmful to society. Religion creates crutches for the morbidly obese masses to limp around on. Why should they care about anything real or important for the world? They're just going to get fatter and wait for Jesus to come back.
Religion needs to go away if we ever want to really come together and solve real world problems.

I'm no atheist, I guess I'm agnostic. I don't know anything to be true and I certainly have no faith in stories or ledgends.
I am however open to enlightenment, but I have yet to see any of that.

I think the atheists in question are just trying to do the right thing for humanity by trying to get rid of religion. Everyday. One fanatic at a time.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: _Del_

I believe human rights are sacred.

Unless we're talking about the rights of the people who drew spiritual comfort from those two beams because they resembled a cross ... you could care less about their human right to freedom of religion.

And you say that Gettysburg is sacred ground? What do you think about all the crosses there? Are you campaigning to get them removed? I mean, that's not very inclusive. I'm sure not all the soldiers were Christian.

Well said. That some people found solace in that symbol and the state recognizes that is not an endorsement of religion but rather a recognition of their sacrifice and feelings. I've been to the Gettysburg national park. It would be an awful lot of mean spirited effort to remove all of the crosses placed on National park space. I suggest he start with the cemetery at Normandy-- a lot less crosses to rip out of the ground.

originally posted by: FinalCountdown

originally posted by: Metallicus


Finally some common sense from a Federal official. I am not Christian, but I have never been offended by a cross or statue of Buddha or anything else religious. I am not even sure WHY I should be offended. I can't wait to hear the explanation provided by the Atheist group because this has always been a baffling thing to me.

Source

Why?
Because most religions are harmful to society. Religion creates crutches for the morbidly obese masses to limp around on. Why should they care about anything real or important for the world? They're just going to get fatter and wait for Jesus to come back.
Religion needs to go away if we ever want to really come together and solve real world problems.

I'm no atheist, I guess I'm agnostic. I don't know anything to be true and I certainly have no faith in stories or ledgends.
I am however open to enlightenment, but I have yet to see any of that.

I think the atheists in question are just trying to do the right thing for humanity by trying to get rid of religion. Everyday. One fanatic at a time.

Yeah. Mother Theresa and Francis Collins (look him up, I know you don't know who he is) are such evil people. Many people find inspiration and solace in religion. Even though I don't believe I try not to be so bigoted to condemn them for it unless it adversely affects me directly.

a reply to: FinalCountdown

EVERYONE please make note of this guy's attitude. if you aren't an atheist you are automatically morbidly obese, don't care about anything real or important to the world, and this is specifically tied to belief in jesus.

Let's ignore the hundreds of thousands of scientists, engineers, rocket scientists, biologists, geneticists, linguists, historians, not to mention, artists and musicians, down thru the history of the freakn' western world, who were christians. WHAT THE FLIP. THEY WERE ALL OBESE IDIOTS WHO DONT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING.

oooo that makes me so mad! i just want to scream. and when i get that mad, i have to pray to stop the anger. you're encouraging my christianity. just so you know!

a reply to: NavyDoc

Nonsense. I may have a different take on the philosophy than you,

A different philosophy?

People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike athiests who sat back and let better men do the work, found inspiration and solace in that imagery.

but you disparaging me and calling me a liar is just as offensive and ignorant as those fundamentalist Christians talking about the "purity" of their religion which is open to numerous interpretations.

There you go again putting words in my mouth! You disparaged all atheist with your remark, and then, you want me to believe you to be a "model" atheist? I don't think so.

Nice side step. That intellectually dishonest. Do you support gun control or not?

This thread isn't about gun control. If I wanted to debate gun control, you'd find me in a thread on gun control.

If you had a gun, there would be a lot of dead people around--that's very telling of your personality and an inability to live and let live.

You need to lighten up. Not everyone is as angry as you.

you know i get "this" close to understanding atheism and then somebody like Final Countdown comes along and kicks me right back over the line. there is no way on god's green earth that belief in jesus is going to automatically make people fat or stupid.

a reply to: undo

oooo that makes me so mad! i just want to scream. and when i get that mad, i have to pray to stop the anger. you're encouraging my christianity. just so you know!

LOL! Got a gun?

I think the poster was referring to fat, flaccid lazy minds that use religion as a crutch. Of course, you and I know that's not you. I've read your esoteric threads and posts.

a reply to: undo

Ah Hah!
Gotcha!

Namaste!

a reply to: windword

/sorry undo is busy praying so she doesn't say something mean.

originally posted by: undo
you know i get "this" close to understanding atheism and then somebody like Final Countdown comes along and kicks me right back over the line. there is no way on god's green earth that belief in jesus is going to automatically make people fat or stupid.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that if an accurate study were to be made, that the study would show that the majority of American mainstream christians are indeed more overweight than their atheists / non-secular, urban counterparts.

originally posted by: FinalCountdown
a reply to: undo

Ah Hah!
Gotcha!

Namaste!

/takes your eyeball and puts it back in.

what.are.you.doing?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

Nonsense. I may have a different take on the philosophy than you,

A different philosophy?

People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike athiests who sat back and let better men do the work, found inspiration and solace in that imagery.

but you disparaging me and calling me a liar is just as offensive and ignorant as those fundamentalist Christians talking about the "purity" of their religion which is open to numerous interpretations.

There you go again putting words in my mouth! You disparaged all atheist with your remark, and then, you want me to believe you to be a "model" atheist? I don't think so.

Nice side step. That intellectually dishonest. Do you support gun control or not?

This thread isn't about gun control. If I wanted to debate gun control, you'd find me in a thread on gun control.

If you had a gun, there would be a lot of dead people around--that's very telling of your personality and an inability to live and let live.

You need to lighten up. Not everyone is as angry as you.

You said that you believed the Constitution was sacred. The question was to ferret out how "sacred" you thought it was and I think we all have an obvious answer that you only think it sacred if you agree with it.

I didn't disparage ALL atheists, I disparaged those who didn't contribute who now bitch about the symbology that comforts those who DID contribute. Big difference.

Of course I think I'm a model atheist. Reasonable atheists do not get upset about other people believing in things that do not exist. It is those who get their panties in a wad about mythology that make reasonable atheists groan. You guys are just as fanatical as the fundie Christians.

I'm not angry, just pointing out the BS of people who claim how tolerant they are when they are not. You are the one talking about not owning a gun because you might kill people. If that is not an indication of pathology, what is?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: FinalCountdown

EVERYONE please make note of this guy's attitude. if you aren't an atheist you are automatically morbidly obese, don't care about anything real or important to the world, and this is specifically tied to belief in jesus.

Let's ignore the hundreds of thousands of scientists, engineers, rocket scientists, biologists, geneticists, linguists, historians, not to mention, artists and musicians, down thru the history of the freakn' western world, who were christians. WHAT THE FLIP. THEY WERE ALL OBESE IDIOTS WHO DONT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING.

oooo that makes me so mad! i just want to scream. and when i get that mad, i have to pray to stop the anger. you're encouraging my christianity. just so you know!

A good friend of mine, Francis Collins, MD, PhD, former head of the human genome project and current head of NIH is a devout Christian. We have had some heated philosophical debates to be sure, but he is neither fat (too skinny IMHO) nor stupid. Again, prejudice and bigotry rears it's ugly head.