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Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

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posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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It was a sign of comfort to those who were experiencing the roughest time of their lives. It was a integral part of the overall situation same as other things. The atheist groups are just trying to get it thrown out because it is against what they believe. I really don't think they have any real reason for not wanting it.




posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: windword

do we live in a constitutional republic or a democracy? if a democracy, and 70% of the country is christian, mob rules apply.

this is dumb. turn our country back into a constitutional republic and quit with the whole facade of pretending we're a democracy when it's more like a freakin dictatorship



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:10 PM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: windword

do we live in a constitutional republic or a democracy? if a democracy, and 70% of the country is christian, mob rules apply.

this is dumb. turn our country back into a constitutional republic and quit with the whole facade of pretending we're a democracy when it's more like a freakin dictatorship


What that does that rant have to do with me?



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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911 Ground Zero is sacred ground and shouldn't be sullied with unnecessary and divisive religious crap. IMHO



irony:
Sacred: connected with God (or with the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration.
* religious rather than secular



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: windword

you aren't american?



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: windword
In my opinion, the 911 Memorial is no place to promote Christianity in the form of one, and only one, religious shrine.

Can somebody post a picture of this cross at the memorial?

I could have swore that they lowered it into the museum.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: _Del_

It's sacred ground because of all the souls that died there, like Gettysburg.

a reply to: undo

Yes, I'm an American. But, I can't be taken to task over America being a democracy, constitutional republic or a dictatorship.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: windword

sure you can. spread the word. same as you're doing now about people trying to behave like we live in a democracy but being told we don't, but we do but we don't but we do. it's silly and creating alot disjointed thought patterns.

if we live in a democracy (mob rule) we could do all kinds of unconstitutional things. if we live in a constitutional republic, we couldn't do unconstitutional things. the argument that is used is constitutionally based, but in a democracy, that's null and void. if you don't want this country to eat the whole planet for dinner in the name of whatever god of atheism they happen to worship, stop using the argument that it isn't protected by law. it IS protected by law in a democracy! what's happening is the atheists in charge, want us to believe that their mob rule which is well below 50% of the country, is all that matters. that isn't a democracy.

i am getting sick and tired of being lied to



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: _Del_

It's sacred ground because of all the souls that died there, like Gettysburg


I'm "offended" by your attempt to strip the word "sacred" of its clear definition and usurp it with one of your own. I find it "divisive" that you would be willing to set up your own standard and understanding of spirituality as the only one acceptable at Gettysburg or Ground Zero. Who do I sue?



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: _Del_

I believe human rights are sacred. The Constitution of the US is a sacred document. My daughters life is sacred to me. Personally, I find nothing sacred between the pages of the Bible or in the words preached from the pulpit.

So there.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: windword

do we live in a democracy?



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: windword

If I were in India or a suburb of a large city in the US where Hindus made up a large portion of the population and after some great disaster a good many of them found a piece of wreckage reminiscent of an Om, why would I do anything but shrug if they wanted to display it at a memorial site? I don't understand how I would rationalize that as divisive.
I mean if they forced me to say an incantation or make a sacrifice in front of it or something then that would clearly be unacceptable. As far as I can tell noone is forcing anyone to even stop and give a second look at the cross if they dont want to.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Metallicus
I can't wait to hear the explanation provided by the Atheist group because this has always been a baffling thing to me.


Same exact reason a giant star and crescent Islamic symbol would be inappropriate.
Just because you prefer one religion over another doesn't mean its more acceptable at a international multi-cultured religious terrorist attack...


One The Cross was found in that shape at the site. Its part of history.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: undo

We live in a Constitutional Republic that employs Democracy.

a reply to: knightrider078




One The Cross was found in that shape at the site.


Not true. The buildings were built with 100's of prefabbed t bars. Please check post link.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 24-6-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: _Del_

It's not about being forced to worship, it's about separation of church and state, and about the government promoting a specific religion, in this case Christianity. It's about precedent.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: windword

what's it employ democracy for?



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc




The beam was not part of the church's story, it was part of all the responders and thus should be in the public park.


The beam was one of many.



The World Trade Center was built using prefabricated parts which were bolted or welded together at the site. This process dramatically reduced construction time and costs. Using this process, t-beams and other types of cross beams were created and used in each of the World Trade Center buildings.

When the Twin Towers collapsed, it sent debris down on to 6 World Trade Center, and gutted the interior of World Trade Center 6. In the midst of the WTC6 debris was this intact cross beam, which its discoverer believes came from the North Tower


It was fabricated. It was made to look like a religious symbol.


On September 13 a worker at the site named Frank Silecchia discovered a 20 foot (6.1 meter) cross of two steel beams amongst the debris of 6 World Trade Center, and had a cross cut from it.


Did I say that there are many?


A replica has been installed at the gravesite of Father Mychal Judge, a New York City Fire Department chaplain who was killed in the collapse of WTC 1 on September 11. Other surviving crossbeams were salvaged from the rubble; one was given to a Far Rockaway, New York chapter of the Knights of Columbus in 2004. Another replica cross was fashioned by ironworkers from Trade Center steel and installed at Graymoor, the Upper West Side headquarters of the Society of the Atonement, a religious institute of Franciscan friars.

en.wikipedia.org...

Kinda sick really! Cutting crosses from the wreckage!




So you would take a chisel and remove all of the religious symbols off the grave stones in Arlington?


There's difference between a religious symbol and shrine. In my opinion, the 911 Memorial is no place to promote Christianity in the form of one, and only one, religious shrine.

911 Ground Zero is sacred ground and shouldn't be sullied with unnecessary and divisive religious crap. IMHO





But they are not. This is the problem with anti-theists who give rational athiests a bad name. People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike athiests who sat back and let better men do the work, found inspiration and solace in that imagery. As an athiest (not an anti-theist) I can understand that, even if I don't believe in it. And, as such, the government putting up an example of said art is not an endorsement of religion, but rather a recognition of the important role such played in the experience if the first responders and the survivors. It is a narrow minded and cruel person who would have an objection to such. In surprised at times how bigoted my fellow athiests can be at times but then I remind myself that they don't just simply lack belief as I do but rather hate those who do believe. It really is just as blind and intolerant and fanatical as the most extreme Westboro Baptist Bible thumpers.
edit on 24-6-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: windword

It's not about promoting religion at all. That's a false start. Noone is promoting Christianity by allowing a cross there any more than the government would be promoting a Hindu symbol in the other scenario. It's a twist of logic to say that and it gets trotted out all the time.
The government's recognition of marriage is far more threatening to the separation clause than this. I'll sign your petition to outlaw the state's recognition of marriage.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: undo

We employ democracy to elect officials to enforce constitutional laws. We also have elections to decide how to spend tax dollars and to enact constitutional laws. If we, as the public, vote for unconstitutional laws, the courts, mostly filled will elected judges, some appointed by elected officials, knock them down.

a reply to: _Del_

We'll just have to agree to disagree on those things.



edit on 24-6-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc




People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike athiests who sat back and let better men do the work, found inspiration and solace in that imagery


What an offensive load of dirty diaper stuff! I don't believe that you're an atheist. You disparage the title "atheist".




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