Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Metallicus

Cause why does your comfort out weigh my discomfort?
I am sure there were plenty of people that fundamentally followed another religion died that day and it they want to visit a scene where there isn't just one religious symbol that might not comfort them but can possibly do the opposite they should have that right.
Easy fix to that is to put up all the religions symbol or start a petition for what religions want there symbol up and have that up for an X amount of time and those that get the signatures get theirs put up.
That way they have a cya and can say they offered a way to get your view represented and if you didn't act then it is on you.

Because...and I think this is a big part of the problem...no other religious symbols were found, publicised and retained. Coming back and saying "lets hang some religious symbols to make it even" is not truthful of the situation. Equal...not special rights. "You have that...give me mine". That argument is such a big part of this and many other arguments. It isn't my fault that a cross was made and discovered. No other symbol was. Therefore...adding other symbols is (sorry) stupid. They had nothing to do with the event...this did.

And...I'm not religious and don't believe in a God, the way most religious people do.

a reply to: Night Star

Yes its the feeling triggered by the sign that is important not necessarily the shape the sign takes...Some respond with an inner feeling of Love and Devotion and some with indifference and some with disdain...its not the sign thats to blame its the entire process that we call mind... performing as it does and some get caught up in it without even realizing and some just watch and learn.....its all good

i have an idea. just pull it up and put a telephone pole there, minus the wires of course.

originally posted by: [post=18067707]...no other religious symbols were found, publicised and retained.

In that rubble of broken and twisted ruins, I'm sure other symbols could have been found. But, maybe the horror and need of the people took priority.

You do know there are also displays inside the museum, right? The inside displays and memorials honor all the other beliefs if those from the 911 tragedy, with the exclusion of atheists (I believe). Even though known atheists also died.

originally posted by: undo
i have an idea. just pull it up and put a telephone pole there, minus the wires of course.

HELLO!

I mean, they ARE the same shape, aren't they.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: [post=18067707]...no other religious symbols were found, publicised and retained.

In that rubble of broken and twisted ruins, I'm sure other symbols could have been found. But, maybe the horror and need of the people took priority.

You do know there are also displays inside the museum, right? The inside displays and memorials honor all the other beliefs if those from the 911 tragedy, with the exclusion of atheists (I believe). Even though known atheists also died.

the atheist have their symbol there already.

a big fat nothing. if they wait long enough maybe something will come out of it.

a reply to: tsingtao

The Christian symbol of torture and death is easily found and emerges everywhere! Go figure!

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: [post=18067707]...no other religious symbols were found, publicised and retained.

In that rubble of broken and twisted ruins, I'm sure other symbols could have been found. But, maybe the horror and need of the people took priority.

You do know there are also displays inside the museum, right? The inside displays and memorials honor all the other beliefs if those from the 911 tragedy, with the exclusion of atheists (I believe). Even though known atheists also died.

the atheist have their symbol there already.

a big fat nothing. if they wait long enough maybe something will come out of it.

I forgive you for judging me.

hypocritical somewhat?

the atheist have their symbol there already.

a big fat nothing. if they wait long enough maybe something will come out of it.

So, if you don't believe in a magical guy in the sky, you can't believe in anything? Is that what you're saying?

Well that's limiting

a reply to: windword

waiiiit. that is not a christian symbol. it's an egyptian symbol (the ankh) that was adopted by christians, meaning ETERNAL LIFE. someone turned it into an instrument of death, but as a symbol it's actually a symbol of ETERNAL LIFE. and considering that's what jesus' claim to fame is (giving people eternal life), i find the whole thing quite ironic and poignant.

a reply to: Metallicus

I still don't understand why Christians would want a cross in the first place. A crucifix is a symbol of their god dying. Brutally. For that matter, I still don't understand why Christians use the cross, period. You would think they would use a rock which could symbolize what was moved for his resurrection but... whatever.

My point is that, if you were victimized by a religious motive, guided by hands that hate your god, why would you use a symbol that refers to another time your religion was hated and victimized?

I imagine Muslim extremists would support the idea of putting a cross there.

a reply to: Cuervo

read my post above yours. it's the ankh. symbol of eternal life. somebody made it into a device for corporal punishment, but originally, it was a symbol of eternal life.

I have a couple friends who where killed by a train, their families put up crosses at the scene. Some asshole keeps knocking them down like it's his duty in life. I don't hide my anti-theistic views, none of the major religions appeal to me, but some points aren't worth making. It's like going to a funeral, and debating mourners on the after life.

That said, I don't like the idea of singling out Christians. 9/11 was done by religious extremists, I think our memorial should be a sign of religious tolerance.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Cuervo

read my post above yours. it's the ankh. symbol of eternal life. somebody made it into a device for corporal punishment, but originally, it was a symbol of eternal life.

In the early days of crucifixion people where nailed to trees. I think a cross is the natural evolution for the structural design. It's was practical.

The ankh theory might have more to it, if crucifixions where uniquely christian, but crosses where used before Jesus made them a symbol. I think the cross is more of a historic reference point than a man made symbol with hidden connections. If he was hung on a noose, Christians would have nooses, and you probably have another symbol that looks like a noose.

Did you know part of the lawsuit was for atheists to have a display inside the museum?

They have been denied.

In his appeal, Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too.”

“We’re arguing for equal treatment in some way, whatever that might be,” Kagin said after the hearing.

a reply to: Annee

yeah i don't see why they can't have one, i just don't think they should make it a confrontational one. like the whole "ya know atheists died here too pal" that's kinda how it sounds lol

a reply to: mahatche

true but the ankh is the cross of jesus. it symbolizes eternal life, which is what jesus' cross symbolizes. of course, i think he was the son of cleopatra, so that makes it even more poignant, as that would've made him the last pharaoh of egypt as well.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: undo
i have an idea. just pull it up and put a telephone pole there, minus the wires of course.

HELLO!

I mean, they ARE the same shape, aren't they.

Next thing you know, they will want all of them changed too! It has gotten nuts.

originally posted by: Annee
Did you know part of the lawsuit was for atheists to have a display inside the museum?

They have been denied.

In his appeal, Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too.”

“We’re arguing for equal treatment in some way, whatever that might be,” Kagin said after the hearing.

"

In his appeal, Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too.”

“We’re arguing for equal treatment in some way, whatever that might be,” Kagin said after the hearing."

bummer. i wonder why.

we have to have a sumpthin sumpthin or other, don't know yet but we want to be included too.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Annee

yeah i don't see why they can't have one, i just don't think they should make it a confrontational one. like the whole "ya know atheists died here too pal" that's kinda how it sounds lol

Maybe being denied made them feel a bit confrontational.