A question to all: Am I a "Christian"?

a reply to: Serdgiam

I have seen that many feel that if you were brought up in a household that had anything whatsoever to do with Christianity (specifically), then your childhood was full of abuse, terror, beatings, molestation, fear, etc.

Many households do have these things, as terrible as it is.. but it can be present regardless of ideology or religion.

Interesting you should say that!

Unfortunately, I DO think that MANY children reared in "Christian" homes DO experience terror, abuse, beatings, fear...etc.
My childhood was NOT one of them.
The Christian part of it was just a sort of Sunday-and-holidays sort of thing.
There was NEVER any preaching or reading of the Bible at home, although during advent and lent Mom would have us do some extra stuff.

ETA: Oh, and we DID say "grace" before meals:

God is great, God is good,
let us thank him for our food.
By his hand we all are fed,
give us, Lord, our daily bread.

...and said our prayers at bedtime:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
Your love guide me through the night
and wake me with the morning light.
In my case, the above was followed by: God bless [every member of my family and extended family - which was lots of people].

Yes, abuse is found in many homes. The thing is, that some kids are so sensitive (like, apparently, I was) that even reciting the Prayer of Humble Access was enough to leave me feeling insufficient and confused. I don't recall my parents EVER bringing up "sin" or "God" or "Jesus" at home, and we definitely were not abused or threatened with hell for not measuring up. (We did, however, as was common in those days, learn to respect the wooden spoon my mother wielded above her head when we got too unruly! Also, the 'wrath' of my father - when we'd argue, if it got out of control, one of had only to yell, "DAD!!" and things calmed down quite quickly. LOL!!) Ah, the 60s.

Yet, I think when Servant said my childhood was terrible he was referring to what he perceived as a shortage of Bible-stuff during my childhood.

Maybe I'm mistaken, though.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

There was a plethora of conversation in the posts, but they also included some statements designed as bait.

I just want to make sure you realize it was done intentionally, because it is easy to go in that direction rather than a mutual exploration. Even when there is an entire post focused around exploring the topic, a comment or two can be singled out and then the entire conversation revolves around the bait.

When we can see how we were baited, sometimes it sheds light on how we might be doing the same to others because it is not always intentional, nor is it always perceived. A lot of it goes on behind the scenes, and most responses have a focal point around a perceived "wrong," or insult, or something that MUST be corrected.

We can shed them off like water on a ducks back, or let it seep in and drive our exploration. But now, it is focused on a perceived injustice rather than learning. Cold and tired, we seek any warm spot to lay down, regardless of danger.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yes, many areas of religion operate based on fear and judgment. In the same breath, they also insinuate superiority. Its an amazing control mechanism.

The issue of bad childhoods is more correlated with a sick society, in my opinion, rather than any specific groups contained within it.

And it IS a shame that religion is essentially designed to keep people from seeking these things themselves. It seems like science has started to go in the same direction, sadly. Not really sure what our best "hope" is, in these regards, unless as a society and culture we move beyond it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Akragon

Oh you're still here!!

It wasn't your post in particular that prompted that statement...
I want to know how to "accomplish" forcing oneself to believe something - how do I implant the belief in the resurrection (or the miracles) when I simply don't believe it, and never did? I hardly think that, at age 55, there is some magical formula that will change my brain into believing it.

I just don't.
I never did.

See that is one of my biggest issues with Christianity... or at least Christians in general...

they tend to focus on "the resurrection"... and the miracles as proof that their religion is correct because "God" came down and walked among men... This is based around hearsay... and most likely "implanted" into the doctrine to show said "proof"...

Ahem... by the way... Yes im still here... I never left

Now where was I...

Oh right...

The "proof" that Jesus was divine was not in the resurrection or the miracles... its in what he taught his followers...

His "death and resurrection" might be true... Im not saying its not, but if you're trying to convince yourself of these things just by listening to what others say... it simply won't happen...

Especially when these things are backed up by the pious and fanatical types which you'll find around here...

IF you know what Jesus taught and how he lived his life as you say, practice those things... and watch how your life changes...

His death and resurrection isn't as important as his life and the way he lived it...

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Think about it this way; I can know about someone, or I can know them as a friend.

True Christianity is not just knowing about Jesus. It's a thing of depth and heart and soul. A friendship with the human aspect (Jesus) of the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. A constant comfort and companion.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Yes, abuse is found in many homes. The thing is, that some kids are so sensitive (like, apparently, I was) that even reciting the Prayer of Humble Access was enough to leave me feeling insufficient and confused. I don't recall my parents EVER bringing up "sin" or "God" or "Jesus" at home, and we definitely were not abused or threatened with hell for not measuring up. (We did, however, as was common in those days, learn to respect the wooden spoon my mother wielded above her head when we got too unruly! Also, the 'wrath' of my father - when we'd argue, if it got out of control, one of had only to yell, "DAD!!" and things calmed down quite quickly. LOL!!) Ah, the 60s.

Yet, I think when Servant said my childhood was terrible he was referring to what he perceived as a shortage of Bible-stuff during my childhood.

Maybe I'm mistaken, though.

Just to continue.. and I do apologize for baiting, but perhaps you understand my reasoning, perhaps you will eventually if not now.

I really wish that, as in your case, your parents would have taught you simply how to explore it yourself rather than teach what you "should" find.

We all have so much to learn from each other, and I think that this type of indoctrination really holds us back on every level. Its so easy to focus on the past rather than where we are going, and most importantly, how we will get there from here.

I think as children, we might even have better insight into this topic than as adults. Its kind of apples to oranges, but I think that we are given the tools explore this right off the bat. But, then we are told that those tools are no good, and we should replace them with those of the establishment. Its a shame.. especially because it breeds division and animosity as some inevitably turn away from God.

Its easy to see the anger, and even hatred, in posts by theists and atheists alike. The drums of war pound, and the people dance to the rhythm. There are other tunes going on as well, but they are drowned out by the stamping feet.

a reply to: manna2

My mother was not dumb. She was disillusioned. Look at society here in America, they dislike thistle and dandelion in their yards. They go through a lot of work to make grass grow. If you have a thistle growing in your yard and it spreads to the neighbors yard, you have made the neighbor a little pissed.

I guess you live on a farm somewhere. A local city gave a guy a ticket for growing weeds. He fought it and won, he was growing them for foods and medicines. But he had to get a variance to do this. Some people are not happy that he is able to grow them. His closest neighbors don't even care, but I guess some socialites don't like weeds.

No strawman, just real observations and knowledge from living in society for a while. People with beautiful lawns do not like dandelions or thistle or any weed that produces seed in the neighbor's yard.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I really wish that, as in your case, your parents would have taught you simply how to explore it yourself rather than teach what you "should" find.

Did you miss the bit about how my parents, when we asked a question about something, would say to us:
LOOK IT UP!!
???

My parents never, ever told me what I was supposed to, or "should" believe.
Ever.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sorry but NO.

According to Christian teachings it is required you believe and have faith in Jesus birth, death and resurrection and to follow/believe his teachings.

a reply to: Akragon

Jesus death and resurrection is very important to the Christian faith. Why? He proved that there is life after death and to not fear death. For death is not eternal but life is. Jesus proved that death is not the end.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

According to Christian teachings it is required you believe and have faith in Jesus birth, death and resurrection and to follow/believe his teachings.

Hmmm.

Well - I believe his "teachings", which are the same as many humans before him (and after him) taught: The Golden Rule. The only rule that matters.

I just don't, and never have, believed in the "resurrection" story. His birth? Okay. Death? Yep. We all die.


The Bible story? Mmm...no. Meh. Sorry.

Oh well, I guess I'm sunk, then.
How does one make oneself "believe" something that one simply does not believe?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Now the only question you have to ask yourself is.... What does it mean to believe in him

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

He proved that there is life after death and to not fear death. For death is not eternal but life is.

I already believed that there is life after death. Our souls - each of our souls, which are fractals of "God" - do not die.
See, that's the thing. Some people get it, that we are immortal spirit inhabiting flesh/bone bodies (transitorily), but death is merely one door closing and another opening. For many, many "lifetimes" - but all part of the experience of being "immortal."

Others simply don't get it.

a reply to: Akragon

What does it mean to believe in him

I believe that he taught what it is said he taught. "You are all gods. You can do what I have done, and more."
That's all. He wasn't the first, nor the last.

We are all connected to the Divine Source. Nothing can change that.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This is true, but there was a reason he came in the first place...

He was the greatest of all teachers because he knew the true God of creation... even remembered being with God which is something not many can lay claim to... Taught by HIM in person...

He gave simple instructions which have been pretty much ruined by religious dogma and traditions of men...

And though we are all connected to the divine, and a part of God as you stated... how many actually act like it?

Christians certainly don't for the most part... which is sad... but again, when simplicity is bungled by dogma and taught by the blind... the ditch they fall into is mighty deep

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

To answer your question:
A) Currently, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimates that a new Christian denomination is formed every 10.5 hours, or 2.3 denominations a day.
B)According to Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there exist roughly 43,000 Christian denominations worldwide in 2012. That is up from 500 in 1800 and 39,000 in 2008 and this number is expected to grow to 55,000 by 2025.

I say, if you say your Christian than I will just take your word for it. Quite frankly it's interesting to watch everyone argue what the definition is and what it means. The intellect is dizzying.

I think God is a suggestive term. I believe there are exists phenomena in which has not been explained and the meanings and definitions we apply to whatever that is, is a deeply person and subjective thing. That's about as religious as I get. I admit I may have anger issues when it comes to organized religion and I am deeply bias towards a Gnostic path; that is the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means and all spirituality's that approach developing a uniquely person journey in that way. I'm currently enrolled in a Qabbalah course in which I have strayed away from because Enochian has intrigued me much more these days..if that tells you anything about my mindset or "resume". I study things here and there, ponder them and explore them, and incorporate my experiences to ponder and explore other things.

Good luck on your path, I applaud that you think for yourself: that in my book is the foundation for true faith.

a reply to: paleorchid13

I admit I may have anger issues when it comes to organized religion and I am deeply bias towards a Gnostic path; that is the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means and all spirituality's that approach developing a uniquely person journey in that way.

Me, too.

Thanks for your post!

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Sorry but NO.

Okay. No apology required. I didn't think so anyway, and I'm fine with that.

"I studied Wicca and spent several years in that mode - and it felt more 'real' than my previous 'mode."


Ah, when I was 14 I was given a Celtic Magick book and it was as if I was reading a diary of my own thoughts, it resonated on an enormous scale that set me on a fascinating journey. I think when I read the bible it sounded like the most barbaric thing I had ever read and it angered me deeply, this was also around the age of 8-9. I had some problems with some of the fundamentals of Wicca which I won't get into, but I think the saying that we are stewards and caretakers of this planet really resonates with me. A certain harmony and respect for the earth and a connection with the environment in which we live as a equals. Everything having a purpose and serving a contribution no matter how tiny. Matriarchy, a feminine touch to the divine like many Native Americans subscribed to, granting recognition and status to the importance of motherly wisdom.

Definitely something rich, vibrant and deeply spiritual in the earth based spirituality's that I myself have found transforming. Life just seems more magical and meaningful applying appreciation and wisdom rather than rules and dictations.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Namaste, my friend. If you are going to ask if you are a Christian or not in a public forum such as this, you will always going to get many ideas and opinions about what is a Christian. It is not important what others think or place judgement upon you. What is important is inside of you. Try your best to stop looking outside of you, but look inwards for God. For the Kingdom of Heaven is within us and not somewhere out there, especially if it is people using the Ego to judge your religious/spiritual progress. What I mean by the Ego is the Mind of Man throughout history, including but not limited to Master Jesus' time period.

To go even a deeper level, it is not important if you are a Christian or not. God sees life through many, many possibilities and ways. You can not put God into a single religion such as Christianity. However, a religion can show you the way back to God. But even when I say, "the way back to God," is a mere contradiction. Why? Because you have never been separate from God in the first place. You have always been ONE with God. However, in our physical reality, we must use words and language to explain things that can lead up to a certain lesson, such as what I'm speaking of right now. So the lesson here is that God is inside of you right now since the beginning of time and since time eternal. You must learn to go within and live as God, for all are ONE.