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Solar Radiation Management, Chemtrails and Climate Mitigation

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posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: MagicWand67

So they are not supposed to dust you, but they have.

I'll tell you a story I heard. May be true, may be urban legend. A C-130 gunship was flying around Alaska wilderness on a training mission. The gunner saw a moose in a field and thought the 105 might be fun. So he vaporized the moose. A once in a million shot where a park ranger spotted the whole thing and had the crew arrested for hunting out of season.

Now it's terrible to kill something for no reason, but I think the story speaks to more than that. Not supposed to happen, but some kid might not be thinking and does something he thinks is funny. It doesn't excuse anything, but might help explain it.




posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
I'd beg to differ. 130,000 lbs a year (or 500 tons of overall chaff a year by the Air Force statement recently) is then something to multiply by how many years running back to the 1950's some of the above links say it's been used for?
Particularly when the mention of lead not being used any longer is cited to a report of the late 90's for something happening decades prior to it? Just how much lead by literal weight did get distributed in a relatively fine form, in an even distribution?


well if it was 130,000lbs per year for 50 years then that would be 6,500,000 lbs total of lead, wouldn't it - call it 3000 tons over 50 years.

compared to the tetraethyl lead in petrol - from roughly 1910 to 1960 there was over 10,000,000 tons - TEN MILLION TONS of lead produced in the US for use in petrol EVERY YEAR - see here

by 1993 annual production was down to a meager 100,000 tons of TEL - in ONE YEAR that is 30 times the assumed total for lead in chaff, which is probably too high in het first place!

So I'm going to stick with my characterization of the effects of lead from chaff as minor.




edit on 3-7-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: grammer



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
I wouldn't want to be one of those people in Huntsville when that chaff cloud was tested.
Why can't they test this stuff above unpopulated areas at least?


they did - they tested it over Redstone Arsenal, which is unpopulated, at low altitude so it would be less likely to blow a long way.

and they got the weather wrong.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

I'm going to remain with the position that any large amount of lead into the environment is too much and it's a crazy position to say any amount was acceptable. That's just multiplied when it's put out in small, light and easily ingested or absorbed amounts into the environment/food chain.

Lead is a substance many many studies have been done about on the relatively small bullets I personally know and reload myself. By volume, I'm still not clear on what % of the fibers contained that, let alone the other materials which are better known by percentage. What is put out now may well carry it's own issues.

Comparing one poison to another is interesting for seeing how much of other substances or forms of one substance have gone out but it's like justifying bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. It's just poor thinking, in my personal view.

There is also one big difference.

The enormous amounts of this spread, literally on the wind, was/is NOT designed to break down quickly, which means it only will in adverse conditions. That will leave a loooooong timeline of a gift to keep on giving as what is out there, reaches it various points to break down, be eaten and work into the soil our food is grown from.

Oh, it's anything but minor, in my opinion. By volume and distribution over our own nation? Anything but.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 03:45 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: MagicWand67

Anyway, the information you've brought is both appreciated and judging by replies outside the debunking group, well received at least in terms of more info to add to a growing pile of 'Hmmm....Interesting...". I'm not sure how much further any material in this area goes for real world proof, or can right now. Speculation is the stuff that leads to more tho...so thanks for sharing so much.


Yes the thread is a very interesting and important topic, particularly important I think is the issue of the regulation of any future widespread geoengineering if we want to avoid WWIII potentially breaking out. It is a shame therefore that what I think would be termed by some as 'disinformation' had to be introduced.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: network dude




The gunner saw a moose in a field and thought the 105 might be fun.


Oh the moosanity...



A once in a million shot where a park ranger spotted the whole thing and had the crew arrested for hunting out of season.


I would love to hear that call into his superiors telling them what he just saw, and what the crew of that gunship thought when they saw him coming.

That is if it is a real story...



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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a reply to: MagicWand67




How about commenting on-topic for a change?


I commented on the links you posted in this thread, so how am I not commenting on topic?



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul




they did - they tested it over Redstone Arsenal, which is unpopulated, at low altitude so it would be less likely to blow a long way.

and they got the weather wrong.


How serendipitous , it's a happy chaff cloud.

What about this new smart chaff? Nano sized particles that mimic the behavior of pollen.


March 2008

Nanotechnology principles are being applied to develop “smart chaff” that mimics the behavior of pollen, he adds. Researchers have created fibers that are a miniscule 130 nanometers wide. By comparison, a human hair is 100,000 nanometers wide. The fibers are electrically conductive. In the future, Gassman predicts, the fibers will be made 100 times stronger than diamond, with very high electrical and thermal conductivity.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




I commented on the links you posted in this thread


Here's exactly what you said .....


originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MagicWand67




Of course I read them.


Now the most important question...Did you understand them?

Because reading something is different from understanding it.



Just to be sure I understand, why don't you explain what the info in those links mean?

Let's start with this one

Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming



2.2. Delivery mechanism
Since commercial airliners routinely fly in the region where
cold cirrus clouds exist, it is hoped that the seeding material
could either be (1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel
and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol,
or (2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should
vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as
aerosol in the jet contrail. The objective would not be to seed
specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background
concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses
that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount
of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the
residence time of seeding material might be on the order of
1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to
account for this. With the delivery process already existing,
this geoengineering approach may be less expensive than other
proposed approaches.

edit on 4-7-2014 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: MagicWand67
From your quoted material

Since the residence time of seeding material might be on the order of 1–2 weeks


That looks like something to keep in mind. Usually "what goes up must come down". When and where casts doubt on claims that overhead 'spraying' is directly affecting the area directly beneath.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

The "at least it's not happening in my neck of the woods" mentality ?

While acute exposure may only cause minimal symptoms.

The serious concern is over the cumulative affect something like this could have.

I don't know if it's occurring but I don't dismiss the possibility.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: MagicWand67


The "at least it's not happening in my neck of the woods" mentality ?

Not at all. The sight of contrails overhead causes adverse physical reactions mentality.

My rule of thumb is if you can see 'em you probably can't taste 'em.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67

I don't know if it's occurring but I don't dismiss the possibility.


On that, I think we all agree. It's when someone claims it IS happening, and they just don't understand their source material that we get these disagreements. If all the conversations started with the notion that you just offered, I doubt there would be much disagreement, and a lot more education on both sides. (actually, there would only be one side)

Like Nano smart chaff. An interesting idea, but until proven to be real, it's just an idea.



posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: network dude




Like Nano smart chaff. An interesting idea, but until proven to be real, it's just an idea


I disagree. Many things are developed, that are completely real, but never get used commercially or publicly.

These prototypes need to be tested and the public is never properly informed.

It's more a question of, if it's viable and effective. Sometimes it is a matter of being more cost efficient or not.

I doubt there will be big announcement the day smart chaff gets put in action.

Walmart won't be having a sale on smart chaff.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: MagicWand67

Yes, but until you have some sort of real indication that smart chaff has been developed and is being used, you cannot just say "since it's been 4 years, they must have perfected it, so I will tell everyone they are using it based on that alone."

You either need backup, or you need to speak of it with a speculative tone.

Making things up to support your conspiracy theory is how the whole chemtrail lie got started.

Until you have a body, there is no point in trying to find the killer.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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I wanted to add this study that used models to determine the efficacy of 3 different types of SRM seeding material.

Sulfur dioxide, Aluminum oxide and Sulfuric acid.

An Initial Evaluation of Geoengineering by Al2O3 Injection



So these materials don't sound very promising. I seem to recall the loss of Ozone being a bad thing.

What other types of material could we use for SRM?

Chemtrails: US Patent #5003186: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming

Raytheon corporation owns the patent for this material. Who is Raytheon?


Raytheon

The Raytheon Company is a major American defense contractor and industrial corporation with core manufacturing concentrations in weapons and military and commercial electronics. It was previously involved in corporate and special-mission aircraft until early 2007. Raytheon is the world's largest producer of guided missiles.

Established in 1922, the company reincorporated in 1928 and adopted its present name in 1959. The company has around 63,000 employees worldwide[6] and annual revenues of approximately US$25 billion. More than 90% of Raytheon's revenues were obtained from military contracts and, as of 2012, it was the fifth-largest military contractor in the world,[7] and is the fourth largest defense contractor in the United States by revenue.

Raytheon's headquarters moved from Lexington, Massachusetts to Waltham, Massachusetts in 2003.[8] The company was previously headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts from 1922 to 1928, Newton, Massachusetts from 1928 to 1941, Waltham from 1941 to 1961, Lexington from 1961 to 2003, and back to Waltham from 2003 onwards.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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Where are some of these geoengineering scientists and who supports them?

David Keith - Pacific Northwest National Lab

Ken Caldiera - Lawrence Livermore National Lab


Who manages these labs?


Battelle

Battelle Memorial Institute is a private nonprofit applied science and technology development company headquartered in Columbus, Ohio. Battelle is a charitable trust organized as a nonprofit corporation under the laws of the State of Ohio and is exempt from taxation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code because it is organized for charitable, scientific and education purposes

.........

Laboratory Management - Battelle manages the following: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Idaho National Laboratory, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center, National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, U.K. National Nuclear Laboratory


What does Battelle do?

Battelle.org


About us

Battelle is the world’s largest nonprofit research and development organization, with over 22,000 employees at more than 60 locations globally. A 501(c)(3) charitable trust, Battelle was founded on industrialist Gordon Battelle’s vision that business and scientific interests can go hand-in-hand as forces for positive change.

Today, Battelle manages the world’s leading national laboratories and maintains a contract research portfolio spanning consumer and industrial, energy and environment, health and pharmaceutical and national security. We are valued for our independence and ability to innovate within virtually any business or research climate. From large government agencies and multi-national corporations to small start-ups and incubator projects, Battelle provides the resources, brainpower and flexibility to fulfill our clients’ needs.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: MagicWand67

Everything David Kieth speaks about seems to be how bad geo-engineering may be. He doesn't seem to want to do any of it. Or is that all a show?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
I'm going to remain with the position that any large amount of lead into the environment is too much and it's a crazy position to say any amount was acceptable.


and no one has said that.

However the 500 tons, maximum, that can be possibly attributed to chaff, over a few decades, doesn't constitute a "large amount" at all.







 
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