Agnostics and Atheists

originally posted by: Moresby

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: Moresby
a reply to: Prezbo369


Consider this equation:

A + B = C+D

Now solve for the value of "D".


.

I understand the point you are trying to make however this argument does not prove it because I can solve this problem an infinite amount of ways.Here's just one.


1+4=2+3

D=3

Oh, c'mon, you know that's not the solution. I don't think even people teaching the "Common Core" would accept that as a solution. Well, maybe them.

In algebraic equations you need ....

Oh, I'm not going to do that. You went to High School, you understand how algebraic equations work. You were just being all contrary and Internety on me.

contrary and internety???? NO NO NO!!! you are wrong and I am right because I believe therefore I am!!!!....btw

D=3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923 0781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460 9550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954 9303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485 6692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817 4881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384 1469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185 4807446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912983367336244 0656643086021394946395224737190702179860943702770539217176293176 7523846748184676694051320005681271452635608277857713427577896091 7363717872146844090122495343014654958537105079227968925892354201 9956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998 3729780499510597317328160963185950244594553469083026425223082533 4468503526193118817101000313783875288658753320838142061717766914 7303598253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781857780532
171226806613001927876611195909216420198 ..........and stuff

"People seem to think that to be an atheist is to claim to know that there is no god, and this is simply not true at all. An atheist is merely someone that isn't a theist, someone that doesn't have a belief in a god. "

Based on this description Atheism is then a religion. Atheist don't claim knowledge, they only believe there isn't a God. A belief is taken on faith. Agnostics do not take anything on faith. They truly lack religion of any sorts.

You answered your own question imo. The difference is one is a religion and one is the lack of all religion because they lack any type of faith.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Based on this description Atheism is then a religion. Atheist don't claim knowledge, they only believe there isn't a God. A belief is taken on faith.

A rejection of a claim is not itself a claim, so there's nothing to take on blind faith...

Agnostics do not take anything on faith. They truly lack religion of any sorts.

I've heard twice in this thread alone that agnostics think/believe that whether or not a god exists is an unanswerable question, how do they know this? could it be that they're taking it on blind faith.....?

You answered your own question imo. The difference is one is a religion and one is the lack of all religion because they lack any type of faith.

So having a belief is a religion, not having a belief is a religion......I know you'd like to put everyone in the same sinkhole you place your beliefs in, but you're not making any sense whatsoever when you attempt to make such claims...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Agnostics do not take anything on faith.

Interesting that you should make that claim. Agnostics say that the answer to "God does/does not exist" cannot be known. Surely that's something you would say is based in faith?

I think that this discussion has become a mass of confusion because we can't agree on what certain words mean. The way I see it, (a)theism is the belief (or non-belief – more on that later) in the existence of a god, or gods, basically yes or no. (A)gnosticism is the degree of conviction (or doubt), basically absolutely sure, or kind of think so. These are two sliding scales that are perpendicular to each other. Therefore, a gnostic theist has an absolute conviction that a god is real, and a gnostic athiest is absolutely sure that there is no god, or gods. Furthermore, an agnostic theist believes that there probably is a god, but is unsure, or is convinced that there is no reasonable way of knowing. An agnostic atheist has weighed the evidence for the existence of a god and is unconvinced, or feels that it is impossible to be convinced. The agnostic atheist is similar to the jury member who is unconvinced by the evidence that the butler did it.
It's important to understand that there are 2 types of atheists. The gnostic atheist has a dogmatic, fundamentlist position that would be clearly be an active belief system. The other type of atheist, the agnostic atheist (almost all are in this camp), is simply one who does not accept the reality of a god. My cat is an atheist (at least I assume she is). I don't think that anyone would reasonably claim that she had a belief system about a god.
Finally, a true scientist (or at least a true Scotsman scientist) will always take the position that a reasonable proof of the existence of a god is not impossible. If and when that proof arrives, then this god will rightfully take the supreme position within the realm of Nature.

a reply to: Diderot

The gnostic atheist has a dogmatic, fundamentlist position that would be clearly be an active belief system.

No. I believe in exactly the same thing that trillions of species believed in before the dawn of man. Survival. At the most fundamental level, we exist to continue existing. And every moment of existence is spent furthering our ability to continue existing. "God" didn't exist before man did, or there would be evidence of worship spanning the millions of years between the first arrival of life on Earth and the birth of homo sapiens. As it so happens, the direct lineage which has produced our species is the ONLY one to acknowledge a higher power in any way. One genetic line out of trillions. Is that what you call a majority opinion?

Hello AfterInfinity, I agree with your response. I guess that I am confused, though. I was trying to describe the difference between a gnostic and an agnostic atheist. I believe that the vast majority of atheists (like myself) are agnostic and not dogmatic with their certainty. The majority that I was referring to was about atheists only. Religion is exclusive to humans, I believe, only because of our advanced development; as humanity advances, the need for religion should decline.

a reply to: Diderot

I was trying to describe the difference between a gnostic and an agnostic atheist. I believe that the vast majority of atheists (like myself) are agnostic and not dogmatic with their certainty.

Thank you for your response. I don't care for labels such as gnostic and agnostic, because they are, in my opinion, little more than devices used expand or contract the margins by which additional information may be inserted, thus modifying and perhaps revolutionizing the original position. In other words, you are either open or not open to changes in your own opinion.

The majority that I was referring to was about atheists only. Religion is exclusive to humans, I believe, only because of our advanced development; as humanity advances, the need for religion should decline.

I can't say that I'm convinced spirituality will die with the evolution of our species.