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What has happened to our country?

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posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:02 AM
link   

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.




posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.


Doesn't matter.

They are in our schools.
They write the laws.
They reward the predators and punish the victims.
They control what flag gets put up or not put up.
They control what we eat, drink, smoke.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.


Doesn't matter.

They are in our schools.
They write the laws.
They reward the predators and punish the victims.
They control what flag gets put up or not put up.
They control what we eat, drink, smoke.


The only true hopelessness, is in believing there's no hope.
This is doable. It CAN be fixed, the question is: how many others want to believe THAT.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: oblvion
Keep you eyes on the prize, if we could unite even half of us..........tomorrow would me magical indeed for all.

Once agin though, this is the undying hope in me, that blinds me to the truth, and that truth is, I think they are better at this game than us, because the evidence says we are losing badly.


They also have a much smaller group of people to coordinate than we do. Half of us, is a LOT more than half of them.


And they have a very coordinated schedule to ensure they are all on the same page all the time, bilderburg g20 g7 etc....


We cant even get together in a group over 50 and they send in the agent provocateurs to gum up the works, yet we will be arrested if we tried to get one guy in on them.

But, all hope is not lost, they want net neutrality so bad, because a free net is slowly but surely eroding thier power and tactics.

Everyday, we wake a couple more, every day we gain more ground.

They see the score, and they fear, and rightly so.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: ArtemisE

I have no issue believing some racists left the Dems, and joined the GOP. I do not believe that all of them did, or even a majority of them.

There have been, and will be, racists on both sides of the aisle.

There has been a concerted effort on the part of Government (both parties are complicit in this) to enslave the people by forcing them through regulations, and laws, to cling to the Government for sustenance, both physical, and emotional.

The People are complicit by allowing it to happen, and refusing to stand against it.



I don't think any of it's about racism anymore. It's about votes. The elected officials couldn't care what race you are.


However, I gotta disagree about a few things tho....

The dems get all the black racists and the GOP gets all the white ones. I personally see the GOP play to there racists far more then I see the dems play to there's. There's a lot of whites in the democrat party too. So they can't. Dems play other cards. Mainly pulling on the heart strings.


I don't know where oblivious "we all gotta pull togather" stuff came from.... He played into every bs stereotype in his rant.

Like socialist and commy. I'm not a dem, I think there all a bunch of dirt bags.


But I don't fall for all the buzz word bs. Someone who thinks there might be a better economic plan then capitalism isn't evil. Communism isn't evil, socialism isn't evil. It all depends who you put in charge. King author would make an amazing dictator, hitler made a monster.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: ArtemisE

Dems play to their racists, plenty.

"They're gonna put y'all back in chains..."

The irony being that through entitlements, those chains were never removed in the first place.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.


Doesn't matter.

They are in our schools.
They write the laws.
They reward the predators and punish the victims.
They control what flag gets put up or not put up.
They control what we eat, drink, smoke.


The only true hopelessness, is in believing there's no hope.
This is doable. It CAN be fixed, the question is: how many others want to believe THAT.


I do, I fight the good fight every single night at work. I get to interact with many many people every single night at work.

I am actually shocked at how informed some are that dont realize it, and how uninformed so many are that think they have it all figured out.

We can and will win, because if we lose, so do my children, and this I will not allow.

I will not hand a worse world over to them than I got from my parents.

It will be better, or will have already died trying.

The truth is, that change only really takes one single straw. One single straw breaks their back.

We just need to be ready to hammer the point home, when the time comes, and it is coming.

They are balancing a house of cards, on a folding table with 2 legs, in a hurricane.

One day soon, they will tell one lie too many, they will overstep one step too far.

Patience is the name of this game, and time is our friend.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: ArtemisE

I have no issue believing some racists left the Dems, and joined the GOP. I do not believe that all of them did, or even a majority of them.

There have been, and will be, racists on both sides of the aisle.

There has been a concerted effort on the part of Government (both parties are complicit in this) to enslave the people by forcing them through regulations, and laws, to cling to the Government for sustenance, both physical, and emotional.

The People are complicit by allowing it to happen, and refusing to stand against it.



I don't think any of it's about racism anymore. It's about votes. The elected officials couldn't care what race you are.


However, I gotta disagree about a few things tho....

The dems get all the black racists and the GOP gets all the white ones. I personally see the GOP play to there racists far more then I see the dems play to there's. There's a lot of whites in the democrat party too. So they can't. Dems play other cards. Mainly pulling on the heart strings.


I don't know where oblivious "we all gotta pull togather" stuff came from.... He played into every bs stereotype in his rant.

Like socialist and commy. I'm not a dem, I think there all a bunch of dirt bags.


But I don't fall for all the buzz word bs. Someone who thinks there might be a better economic plan then capitalism isn't evil. Communism isn't evil, socialism isn't evil. It all depends who you put in charge. King author would make an amazing dictator, hitler made a monster.




Because brother, I only used all that BS as a way to draw you into the conversation further. I am no repub, not even close.

I believe it is a womans right to choose, I disagree with abortions in almost all cases, but would not dare deem myself so high and mighty to tell others what they can or can not do with their own bodies and or minds.

Socialism isnt evil, in fact i think it is a good idea, but one that can not work, because human nature rules it out.

Humans are greedy, this will not change, ever.

I would not work my butt off all day every day for the same pay as a guy that does nothing.

This is the flaw in the entire idea.

Capitalism has succeeded amazingly in bringing prosperity to the people, where socialism has failed every time because of this one issue. However it also has a tendency to reward those doing the least. Workers make and create all the products and services that bring all the profits, yet the guy behind the desk makes all the money.

If all would work hard all the time, it would be terrific and honestly not quite perfect, but as close to one gets in a imperfect world full of imperfect beings.

I honestly believe we should all care about eachother and not take more then we need when we see other that do need, but this isnt the world we inhabit.

So we work with what we have, and try to improve on it, slowly, because large changes (obama) in a short time will not see their entire effects for many years down the road. There are always many unintended results to any large change, too bad they ignore all the negative ones no matter how big they are,and only highlight the minor improvements no matter how minor.

Not to say the next guy will do any better, honsltly it seems they are getting worse with time.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: ProfessorChaos




Forty years ago, Saturday Night Live, and All in the Family were using racial slurs on air to spark the discussion, now we can't even say REDSKINS without being labeled racist.


Open discussion coming in the right way, especially with humor was very helpful in dealing with everyones feelings and making people think. All in the Family vs Sanford and Son showing two extremes we could laugh with and at.

Now we have to be afraid of expressing a thought even in private. I think what we say in private should be off limits, often it is not even understood by outsiders the context we are speaking to those that know us well.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:45 AM
link   
a reply to: Char-Lee

I would have posted the videos to emphasize my points, but was unsure of whether they'd be violating the T&C's of ATS, considering the terms that were used.

It really is striking how different the world is now, from then, and it's not necessarily in a good way.

***EDIT TO ADD**

There have been some good changes since the 'old days', as ArtemisE mentioned (though, we're in disagreement regarding some of them), but not enough, in my opinion, to outweigh the bad.
edit on 6/21/2014 by ProfessorChaos because: edit to add



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.


Doesn't matter.

They are in our schools.
They write the laws.
They reward the predators and punish the victims.
They control what flag gets put up or not put up.
They control what we eat, drink, smoke.


The only true hopelessness, is in believing there's no hope.
This is doable. It CAN be fixed, the question is: how many others want to believe THAT.


Right now, we're in the minority.

But I won't throw in the towel.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: beezzer

What has happened to our country?


The progressives won.

We are a nation of cowards, victims. The progressives (both left and right) control;
Our speech
Our thoughts
Our futures
Our ability to make a living
Our food

We are now a minority. Independent thinkers, free thinkers, self-reliant people are now the enemy.


It would certainly appear that way, wouldn't it?

People need to turn off the t.v.


Doesn't matter.

They are in our schools.
They write the laws.
They reward the predators and punish the victims.
They control what flag gets put up or not put up.
They control what we eat, drink, smoke.


The only true hopelessness, is in believing there's no hope.
This is doable. It CAN be fixed, the question is: how many others want to believe THAT.


Right now, we're in the minority.

But I won't throw in the towel.


Keep your chin up. I've been there, (and will be again, I'm sure) I was the guy who wrote the "It's Official. Apathy Has Set In" rant thread.

Deep down, I know this is winnable, no matter how disillusioned I may get.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: ProfessorChaos

The average person can't work on social change full time, like many liberals get paid by the government and NGOs to do.

We are witnessing the fruits of the collectivist's full time political work.

And the crony revolving-door lobbyists.

Big government enables lobbyists and NGO's who can work full time, and move the government their way, which causes more lobbyists and NGO's etc...

Positive feedback toward totalitarian government, or governance.


edit on 21-6-2014 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:08 PM
link   
Conservatives are by definition, traditionalists. They reject all change, even when it means embracing a false sense of history to justify an emotional reaction to progress.

- Violent crime is at a historic low.
- Infant mortality is at a historic low.
- Average life expectancy is at a historic high.
- More people have more liberty than ever.

That's not to say that things are perfect, that all change is progress or that we should ever stop being vigilant. Let me briefly expand on that last item. The first part, more people, is indisputable: The Fourteenth Amendment, the Fifteenth Amendment, the Seventeenth Amendment, the Nineteenth Amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, the Twenty-Sixth Amendment, etc.

The second part of my statement is a bit more complicated to address, but let's look specifically at Freedom of Speech as it's been interpreted throughout history as an example:

1798 - Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to criticize the government in speech or writing.
1801 - Jefferson pardons people convicted for sedition and the acts are not renewed.
1872 - Congress makes mailing "obscene" materials illegal.
1915 - SCOTUS, in Mutual Film Corporation v. Ohio, rules that movies are not protected by the First.
1918 - The Sedition Act makes sedition illegal again. More than 2,000 people are convicted.
1919 - SCOTUS, in Schenck v. United States, upholds the Sedition Act.
1931 - SCOTUS, in Near v. Minnesota, rules against prior restraint.
1940 - Smith Act makes advocating the overthrow of the government illegal.
1951 - SCOTUS, in Dennis v. United States, upholds Smith Act.
1952 - SCOTUS reverses opinion on Burstyn v. Wilson, movies given protection under the First.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Yates v. United States, overturns Smith Act convictions.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Roth v. United States, upholds legality of banning the mailing of obscene material.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Tinker v. Des Moines School Disctrict, upholds rights of students to wear armbands protesting Vietnam War.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, upholds FCC's right regulate broadcasts
1971 - SCOTUS, in New York Times v. United States, upholds NYT's right to publish the Pentagon Papers.
1972 - After SCOTUS ruling in Brandzburg v. Hayes, most states pass Shield Laws to protect the confidentiality of reporter's sources.
1972 - SCOTUS, in Miller v. California, adopts Miller Test for obscenity.
1976 - SCOTUS, in Buckley v. Valeo, rules that campaign donations are free speech.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, rules against students' free speech in school.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hustler Magazine v. Falwell rules that public figures cannot sue for damages for depictions in parodies.
1989 - SCOTUS, in Texas v. Johnson, rules that flag burning is protected "symbolic speech."
2004 - SCOTUS rules against COPA, John Ashcroft's attempt to censor the Internet.

I'm sure I've missed some, but you'll notice that First Amendment protection of free speech as we enjoy it today didn't even really get kicked off until 1931 and was promptly cast aside for a couple of decades over fear of Communism. So it irritates me to see delusional people holding the belief that somehow in the past there was more liberty than now because they believe the, now mythical, Founding Fathers were somehow omniscient and infallible. Certainly they were great men and in their era, progressives, but the history of expanding and maintaining liberty in this country has been a centuries long struggle.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Semicollegiate

If the average person took a moment to think about their interactions during a work day, they'd be able to see that it's all an enormous lie.

I work with people of various ethnic backgrounds (as do many of you), and racism is never an issue unless it is foisted on us by management, through training videos and policies. We joke with each other, make remarks about stereotypes, and no one is butt hurt about it.

As a point of fact, there are two guys that I work with, that I like very much, who have this weird little thing they like to do with regard to Asians (our city is loaded with them), and without my saying anything to them about it (I am married to an Asian, and we have a child), they toned it down out of respect for me, and my family.

Company policy had nothing to do with that. Government intervention had nothing to do with that. Mutual respect for a fellow human being had everything to do with that.

We're more than capable of figuring this out without the Government, or its paid intellectuals telling us how to.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:23 PM
link   
a reply to: ProfessorChaos


I work with people of various ethnic backgrounds (as do many of you), and racism is never an issue unless it is foisted on us by management, through training videos and policies. We joke with each other, make remarks about stereotypes, and no one is butt hurt about it.

As a point of fact, there are two guys that I work with, that I like very much, who have this weird little thing they like to do with regard to Asians (our city is loaded with them), and without my saying anything to them about it (I am married to an Asian, and we have a child), they toned it down out of respect for me, and my family.


I'm glad that worked out for you — but what if it hadn't? You can't assume that your individual experience is the same as everyone else's.


Company policy had nothing to do with that. Government intervention had nothing to do with that. Mutual respect for a fellow human being had everything to do with that.

We're more than capable of figuring this out without the Government, or its paid intellectuals telling us how to.


So how do you explain the need for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to end racial segregation a mere 50 years ago? Basically, the majority of the population pushing Congress to pass legislation to force the South to get with the f'ing program?

What do you have against intellectuals? That's another asinine position popular among conservatives. In my opinion it's just the latest take on the centuries old struggle of Religion vs Science (Tradition vs Progress?) that has been ongoing since the Enlightenment.

Another thing I take issue with is the notion that government is somehow separate from and above the public. The government should be our bitch. The only legitimate purpose of government in free society is to serve the interests of the public.
edit on 2014-6-21 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:27 PM
link   
a reply to: theantediluvian

Keep pushing the Left vs. Right paradigm, you're only convincing yourself.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Conservatives are by definition, traditionalists. They reject all change


Extreme view of conservatism, somewhere between a caricature and a lie.
All conservatives want positive change, the kind that happens from a general increase in wealth, health and human development.


, even when it means embracing a false sense of history to justify an emotional reaction to progress.

- Violent crime is at a historic low.
- Infant mortality is at a historic low.
- Average life expectancy is at a historic high.
- More people have more liberty than ever.

That's not to say that things are perfect, that all change is progress or that we should ever stop being vigilant. Let me briefly expand on that last item. The first part, more people, is indisputable: The Fourteenth Amendment, the Fifteenth Amendment, the Seventeenth Amendment, the Nineteenth Amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, the Twenty-Sixth Amendment, etc.

The second part of my statement is a bit more complicated to address, but let's look specifically at Freedom of Speech as it's been interpreted throughout history as an example:

1798 - Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to criticize the government in speech or writing.
1801 - Jefferson pardons people convicted for sedition and the acts are not renewed.
1872 - Congress makes mailing "obscene" materials illegal.
1915 - SCOTUS, in Mutual Film Corporation v. Ohio, rules that movies are not protected by the First.
1918 - The Sedition Act makes sedition illegal again. More than 2,000 people are convicted.
1919 - SCOTUS, in Schenck v. United States, upholds the Sedition Act.
1931 - SCOTUS, in Near v. Minnesota, rules against prior restraint.
1940 - Smith Act makes advocating the overthrow of the government illegal.
1951 - SCOTUS, in Dennis v. United States, upholds Smith Act.
1952 - SCOTUS reverses opinion on Burstyn v. Wilson, movies given protection under the First.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Yates v. United States, overturns Smith Act convictions.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Roth v. United States, upholds legality of banning the mailing of obscene material.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Tinker v. Des Moines School Disctrict, upholds rights of students to wear armbands protesting Vietnam War.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, upholds FCC's right regulate broadcasts
1971 - SCOTUS, in New York Times v. United States, upholds NYT's right to publish the Pentagon Papers.
1972 - After SCOTUS ruling in Brandzburg v. Hayes, most states pass Shield Laws to protect the confidentiality of reporter's sources.
1972 - SCOTUS, in Miller v. California, adopts Miller Test for obscenity.
1976 - SCOTUS, in Buckley v. Valeo, rules that campaign donations are free speech.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, rules against students' free speech in school.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hustler Magazine v. Falwell rules that public figures cannot sue for damages for depictions in parodies.
1989 - SCOTUS, in Texas v. Johnson, rules that flag burning is protected "symbolic speech."
2004 - SCOTUS rules against COPA, John Ashcroft's attempt to censor the Internet.

I'm sure I've missed some, but you'll notice that First Amendment protection of free speech as we enjoy it today didn't even really get kicked off until 1931 and was promptly cast aside for a couple of decades over fear of Communism. So it irritates me to see delusional people holding the belief that somehow in the past there was more liberty than now because they believe the, now mythical, Founding Fathers were somehow omniscient and infallible. Certainly they were great men and in their era, progressives, but the history of expanding and maintaining liberty in this country has been a centuries long struggle.


Social evolution would have done it better, and without the wars and zombiefication that the nanny state dumps on us.

Slavery ended in every modern economy without a war, except in the liberal cozened United States of America. The liberals made us fight the Civil War to end something that was disappearing anyway.

Liberals butt in and take credit for every step of natural societal evolution that they can.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 12:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Conservatives are by definition, traditionalists. They reject all change, even when it means embracing a false sense of history to justify an emotional reaction to progress.

- Violent crime is at a historic low.
- Infant mortality is at a historic low.
- Average life expectancy is at a historic high.
- More people have more liberty than ever.

That's not to say that things are perfect, that all change is progress or that we should ever stop being vigilant. Let me briefly expand on that last item. The first part, more people, is indisputable: The Fourteenth Amendment, the Fifteenth Amendment, the Seventeenth Amendment, the Nineteenth Amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, the Twenty-Sixth Amendment, etc.

The second part of my statement is a bit more complicated to address, but let's look specifically at Freedom of Speech as it's been interpreted throughout history as an example:

1798 - Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to criticize the government in speech or writing.
1801 - Jefferson pardons people convicted for sedition and the acts are not renewed.
1872 - Congress makes mailing "obscene" materials illegal.
1915 - SCOTUS, in Mutual Film Corporation v. Ohio, rules that movies are not protected by the First.
1918 - The Sedition Act makes sedition illegal again. More than 2,000 people are convicted.
1919 - SCOTUS, in Schenck v. United States, upholds the Sedition Act.
1931 - SCOTUS, in Near v. Minnesota, rules against prior restraint.
1940 - Smith Act makes advocating the overthrow of the government illegal.
1951 - SCOTUS, in Dennis v. United States, upholds Smith Act.
1952 - SCOTUS reverses opinion on Burstyn v. Wilson, movies given protection under the First.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Yates v. United States, overturns Smith Act convictions.
1957 - SCOTUS, in Roth v. United States, upholds legality of banning the mailing of obscene material.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Tinker v. Des Moines School Disctrict, upholds rights of students to wear armbands protesting Vietnam War.
1969 - SCOTUS, in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, upholds FCC's right regulate broadcasts
1971 - SCOTUS, in New York Times v. United States, upholds NYT's right to publish the Pentagon Papers.
1972 - After SCOTUS ruling in Brandzburg v. Hayes, most states pass Shield Laws to protect the confidentiality of reporter's sources.
1972 - SCOTUS, in Miller v. California, adopts Miller Test for obscenity.
1976 - SCOTUS, in Buckley v. Valeo, rules that campaign donations are free speech.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, rules against students' free speech in school.
1988 - SCOTUS, in Hustler Magazine v. Falwell rules that public figures cannot sue for damages for depictions in parodies.
1989 - SCOTUS, in Texas v. Johnson, rules that flag burning is protected "symbolic speech."
2004 - SCOTUS rules against COPA, John Ashcroft's attempt to censor the Internet.

I'm sure I've missed some, but you'll notice that First Amendment protection of free speech as we enjoy it today didn't even really get kicked off until 1931 and was promptly cast aside for a couple of decades over fear of Communism. So it irritates me to see delusional people holding the belief that somehow in the past there was more liberty than now because they believe the, now mythical, Founding Fathers were somehow omniscient and infallible. Certainly they were great men and in their era, progressives, but the history of expanding and maintaining liberty in this country has been a centuries long struggle.


My point completely. Are things perfect? Heeellll no! Are they better then any previous time in history? Obviously!



I'm not on either political side. I'm a social libertarian but think for some things capitalism is not the best way to go, destructive even. The justice system, healthcare and government should not be for profit. When these things are for profit, you don't make the human decision. You make the profitable decision. For all non essential services capitalism is the best thing I know of. But the market shouldn't decide some things.

However the present incantation of the GOP are yahoos. Denying evolution and climate change makes them look retarded to the rest of us.
edit on 21-6-2014 by ArtemisE because: (no reason given)




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