The Evolution Epiphany

a reply to: Astyanax

I beg to differ. If someone understands evolution, they cannot, I think, honestly reject it; it is too obviously true.

Nope, it IS possible for one to perfectly understand evolution AND reject it. In the same way that an atheist can understand the Bible AND still reject it. Understanding does not lead to acceptance.

#33

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you wanted to truly understand evolution, you'd need to do independent research or major in a field that specializes in evolution.

"independent research"
Does reading websites / books dedicated to teaching evolution count as "independent research" ? If so I've done my homework and I truly understand evolution.

"major in a field that specializes in evolution"
What percentage of people identifying as evolutionists do you supposed have majored in a field that specializes in evolution? I'd say its microscopic, meaning all the other evolutionists accept it out of faith because they don't truly understand it. (An issue raised in the OP). Either that, or its back to the independent research on the internet and book stores.

#34

a reply to: reploid

Only if that person is ignorant to evidence.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: reploid

Only if that person is ignorant to evidence.

That also applies to atheist ignoring evidence presented by religionists. See it can also be used by pretty much anybody with an idea to sell, should he run into someone who rejects it.

#36

a reply to: reploid

No...religion has no evidence only faith.
Evolution has so much evidence it is ignorant to dismiss it.

a reply to: reploid

Nope, it IS possible for one to perfectly understand evolution AND reject it.

Your reply to Krazysh0t suggests that you are speaking from personal experience, so let me ask you the question I put to my fellow-evolutionists in the OP. Was there a moment when it all fell into place and understanding suddenly dawned? Or, if the process was more gradual than that, what was it brought you to your understanding of evolution?

I'm hoping for a somewhat more detailed reply than 'reading books and web sites dedicated to teaching evolution'. Which books? Which sites? Which subjects and aspects of evolution?

a reply to: reploid

My family, at one point wayyyy back in my history, bred Brittany Spaniels. Great dogs. But as a 5 year old my dad was explaining to me why my favorite dog Shorty was not allowed to be part of the breeding. Shorty was gun shy, which made him useless as a hunting dog (which is what we were breeding for: to train bird dogs). So he was excluded from breeding.

My dad went on to explain that breeding means you exclude animals with traits you didn't want passed down, and he related that to a couple of characteristics I had in common with him. It made sense to me: i came from him, so carried part of him with me. It was such a simple concept that even as a 5 year old I understood it.

As I grow older, I notice more and more how traits get passed down, and somewhere along the way I am exposed to Chromosomes and the fertilization process. Here I see the mechanics of the process taking place. DNA was still in its infancy at the time, but we didn't need DNA to see how part of us was pushed forth into our progeny. And the evidence of what was happening was all around me. My friend with a huge nose had a father with a huge nose. My next door neighbors who were black didn't have random Chinese children, so on and so forth.

So all the mechanisms were there, and were obvious. It went without saying.

For someone to say evolution is incorrect...they will need to explain why those black neighbors didn't have an Asian child. Or why all the boys of one family were huge, like their dad. Otherwise, it just looks like

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: reploid

For someone to say evolution is incorrect...they will need to explain why those black neighbors didn't have an Asian child. Or why all the boys of one family were huge, like their dad. Otherwise, it just looks like

Another example: paternity tests. If genetics didn't demonstrate common descent then paternity tests wouldn't be valid. Do people who deny common descent deny paternity tests?

Trey Smith just destroys evolution. For a real look at what evolution would have to overcome to be true check out "Evolution: Modern Myth (100 WAYS to KILL DARWIN'S EVOLUTION)". Im not very religious, definatly not christian, but understand what is and whats not possible. A child will always be the exact same species as the parents. Before legs can become wings they will become very bad legs first, which wouldnt make living easier for a very long time, quite the opposite. You would have to believe that there would be thousands of small changes, with fossils accounting for it that show the very slooooooow minute changes that would have to occur before a cat/dog turns into a whale. What chain of transition you do have has been admitedly falsified, example --> the rodhocetus. (youtube "Dismantling Whale Evolution").
Honestly, the evidence for evolution is actually weak, and requires a mass amount of being over educated in mental gymnastics that amount to brainwashing in order to "understand how it works". Its time to understand how it doesn't work. Its literally mathematically impossible, and there is literally nothing but contrived evidence for it.

a reply to: Climax

Thanks for taking the trouble to post in this thread. However, we are not discussing here whether the thory of evolution is true or false. We are discussing how people came to understand the theory. If you believe you understand the theory, I would like to hear your story of how you came to understand it — what in particular brought you to your understanding, and whether it appeared as a life-changing revelation (probably not in your case, since you don't accept it) or whether it came to you gradually, over time, as it seems to have done for many people here.

I am not going to argue with you about whether the theory is true, and I sincerely hope no-one else will, either. I'm the OP, by the way, and though I certainly don't own the thread, I should very much like it to stay on topic.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

originally posted by: Climax
Trey Smith just destroys evolution. For a real look at what evolution would have to overcome to be true check out "Evolution: Modern Myth (100 WAYS to KILL DARWIN'S EVOLUTION)". Im not very religious, definatly not christian, but understand what is and whats not possible. A child will always be the exact same species as the parents. Before legs can become wings they will become very bad legs first, which wouldnt make living easier for a very long time, quite the opposite. You would have to believe that there would be thousands of small changes, with fossils accounting for it that show the very slooooooow minute changes that would have to occur before a cat/dog turns into a whale. What chain of transition you do have has been admitedly falsified, example --> the rodhocetus. (youtube "Dismantling Whale Evolution").
Honestly, the evidence for evolution is actually weak, and requires a mass amount of being over educated in mental gymnastics that amount to brainwashing in order to "understand how it works". Its time to understand how it doesn't work. Its literally mathematically impossible, and there is literally nothing but contrived evidence for it.

You really should do some research on Trey Smith before being gullible enough to use him as a source of "education" on anything.

He has no background in any scientific field. He is an admitted liar, serial conman, drug addict and dealer, burglar, and habitual thief. He even wrote a book outlining his activities, in order to "out" the Murdock and Daystar evangelical empire.

He promotes lies to make money off of gullible "believers" . . . . and has admitted it. Yet, this man has "disproven" the most well substantiated scientific theory in existence today?

Right . . .

a reply to: solomons path
Thats alot of info you're just trying to wave away with accusations. The thing is, thats kinda what alot of people are saying about the people making up a whole science about an unobservable past, while intentionally leaving out important details that dont happen to fit with their delicately balanced illusion. Like, creating a new word for stuff that has been known about for thousands of years all over the world and then using it to try and reeducate new generations on, with a totally phony version of the past. Dinosaurs and dragons are the same thing. Every culture knew about them and has had interactions with them. The idea that dinosaur and man are impossibly far apart is a glaring flaw in the evolution paradigm, but it exists. Gargoyles are just one of the historical evidences for modern man interacting with dinosaurs/dragons. The point is there are hundreds of clues that evolution itself is a conmans marketing ploy.

originally posted by: Astyanax

Don't bother, Barcs. The poster you're answering has a personal beef with moi.

Me? No I don't. If you find me consistently disagreeing with you, it's conceptual not personal.

Honestly I don't really keep track of who says what very well. I could S&F you one day (which I did on this thread) and do nothing but argue with you the next, oblivious to the fact that it's the same person.

originally posted by: Climax
a reply to: solomons path
Thats alot of info you're just trying to wave away with accusations. The thing is, thats kinda what alot of people are saying about the people making up a whole science about an unobservable past, while intentionally leaving out important details that dont happen to fit with their delicately balanced illusion. Like, creating a new word for stuff that has been known about for thousands of years all over the world and then using it to try and reeducate new generations on, with a totally phony version of the past. Dinosaurs and dragons are the same thing. Every culture knew about them and has had interactions with them. The idea that dinosaur and man are impossibly far apart is a glaring flaw in the evolution paradigm, but it exists. Gargoyles are just one of the historical evidences for modern man interacting with dinosaurs/dragons. The point is there are hundreds of clues that evolution itself is a conmans marketing ploy.

They're not "accusations" if they come from the mouth of the person in question. Actually, my first inclination is always that people have just been "misinformed" and have bought into a con, due to lack of an education in science. So, I was simply providing information . . . information that you can read from Smith's mouth by reading his book. You can find it here:
Trey Smith auto-bio

The author, Trey Smith is an admitted liar, serial conman, drug addict, dope dealer, burglar, thief and habitual shoplifter - and he actually makes himself come across as the quasi-good guy in his depressing story.

I did not respond to your "claims" because the author, Astyanax, has asked many times that this thread is not about the validity of Modern Evolutionary Synthesis.

If you would like to start your own thread and raise your concerns, I'm sure many would be happy to point out the errors in your thinking.

For me . . . I don't mess with people who believe in "gargoyles", believe people actually had interactions with them, or claim that they are historical evidence of anything, so I'd probably just be a very amused spectator for that one.

a reply to: Climax

You have a private message.

a reply to: NthOther

Very well. I'm happy to accept that statement (as well as the flag and star).

a reply to: Climax



Your absolute butchery and appalling ignorance of evolution is exactly one of reasons I started researching evolution.
The first reason was actually religion that got me really interested in learning more about evolution.

My wife found a good price on a whole years curriculum for our son's sixth grade homeschool year. As the wife and I reviewed the materials everything looked good till I got to the science.
I was shocked to see blatant creationist biology and almost choked on my skittles when I saw a picture of Adam and Eve petting a dinosaur. I just could not believe this was real, how anyone could deceive their own child with this ridiculous none sense. My wife was raised Baptist and even she was not willing to indoctrinate our son with this crap.

So we went looking for a new curriculum based on modern science. Sadly it was impossible to find Christian homeschool textbooks that didn't attempt to discredit the theory of evolution, or preset the Christian God as the author of all of creation, no matter how he did it or when he did it. Neither one of us thought apologetics really belonged in any science textbooks.

This is what got me into studying evolution and creationist claims. One thing quickly became apparent was that creationist didn't have any evidence to support their claims. Time after time It was constant, science vs lies and misinformation based on emotional appeal and a false facade of denial rather than rebuttals based on evidence.

I knew then that creationism is complete and utter bullsh*t and they are still feeding it to the gullible as if it's the Gospel Truth.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Don't bother, Barcs. The poster you're answering has a personal beef with moi.

Want to tell us about how you came to understand evolution, instead?

Right on.

I suppose that my issue was that I never really understood the value of education and didn't take school seriously when I went. I saw it as a chore and tried to avoid it as much as possible. I despised it. I was smart for my age and generally learned things fast. I was great at math, but science, history, literature and other subjects I was just bored. Eventually, I figured out that it was easy to get decent grades while half-assing everything, especially once I hit public school. My grade average stayed the same despite a less strict itinerary, but dropped during my last 2 years of high school when I cared the least. During those years I did almost zero homework and rarely ever studied. I'd usually try to blow through that in home room, if I wasn't sleeping, or I'd selectively fill out the answers to the questions that I knew I'd be called on when the teacher was going around the room. I just didn't care.

In retrospect I wish that I had cared, because I'll never get that kind of an opportunity again. It wasn't until 2003 (when I was 22-23) before I started appreciating the value of knowledge again.

It happened when I was posting on a hip hop battle forum and one of the topics had something to do with evolution. I kid you not, in a response I actually I typed the words, "but evolution is just a theory, it isn't even proven!" I wasn't adversely against it or anything, I just knew nothing about it or what a scientific theory meant and just figured it was a possibility. Needless to say I got slammed by a bunch of people in the thread. I began thinking about it and started reading evolution articles and research papers. Once I found out how much evidence there was for human evolution, I began to realize that it was solid and also that I was very interested in the process. From that point on science was one of my biggest interests and I'd spend a large portion of my free time reading new articles about various research that was going on at the time.

I didn't really focus on creationism until a few years later (around 2008) when one of my friends, who is a rapper / actor / producer, suddenly turned born again christian. It was one of the weirdest experiences in my life. At the time, we were working on a horror movie together and it was a few scenes away from completion. He called me up one day and said he that he had decided to "give his life to the lord" and he decides to cancel the movie completely after I personally put in some hundred hours or so acting and helping with effects. Needless to say, I wasn't happy.

He then proceeded to throw away all of his video games and DVDs, and canceled his internet and cable. He said that he didn't want any temptations of evil or any references to evil. Our movie was a horror movie with blood and gore, so he couldn't work on it anymore. He even trashed all of his early hip hop recordings and movies that he produced, some from over a decade ago because he cursed in them. I wish he gave them to me instead, because he regretted it a year later. I mean that's history right there, how can you just toss away your art and accomplishments like that? So I went over to his place later that week and all he was doing was quoting the bible. I asked him how knew it was true, and started giving me the circular "Why would god say this?" and reference a scripture. Then he showed me a Kent Hovind DVD.

At the time I had no idea who this guy was, what YEC was, or anything else about the ID movement. I heard all of these so called "scientific" statements and claims about dinosaurs living with humans, noah's flood and a myriad of other things. Anyways, some of the claims made me laugh, but some of them actually looked kind of legit because he presented it as if it was science with charts and figures. He was entertaining and funny as well. I told my buddy that I THOUGHT evolution was pretty solid and well backed, but I wondered if any of those claims could be true. Sure enough after searching online I found tons of debunks, that exposed Hovind's lies. My buddy refused to believe it.

Anyways, that series of events created the monster in me. Since then I have been avidly looking for science to defend, and make it a point to read and debunk as many bunk claims as possible because they are harmful to society. I LOVE science and it pains me to see so many people wasting their energy attacking it when it makes our lives AWESOME compared to how they were just a hundred years back.

I guess it really wasn't a Eureka moment where it suddenly made sense, it was more of a gradual evolving thing and after I saw some lectures from Howard Hughes Medical Institute, and learned some of the details of natural selection I kind of looked back on my former self shaking my head at not seeing how obvious it was. I suppose the human evolutionary fossils, coupled with that were the big catalysts for me.

www.hhmi.org...

There are a lot of great lectures and resources on evolution there. They used to give away free DVDs of lectures, but I think they have it all online now. It wasn't until I went through a large portion of those lectures, that I could honestly say that I understood evolution.

a reply to: Barcs

That's quite a story. Did you laugh when your friend showed you the Hovind video?

a reply to: Barcs

I LOVE science and it pains me to see so many people wasting their energy attacking it when it makes our lives AWESOME compared to how they were just a hundred years back.

Science doesn't always make our lives awesome. Just ask the victims of war.