What are "the gates of Hades"?

a reply to: DISRAELI

If Jesus wanted to suggest "aggressive attack", there are other words he could have used, like DUNAMAI.

Then it wouldn't be a metaphor.
It would just be speaking literally.
I think you may be another member of the group of people who can't get metaphor.
They can understand the concept of metaphor, which is not the same thing.
They learn metaphors by studying them and making a mental data table where they list words and standard metaphoric meanings.
When confronted with a metaphor that they are not familiar with, and don't have a standard list of meanings, then they are at a total loss.
I think this inability is behind all the problems people have with religion that you see showing up on this forum.

What I do, which is understanding metaphors, you label as being linguistically "perverse" because it does not match standard literal meanings.

So if I have what looks like a minority view on this forum, it is because it is front-loaded with people suffering from this syndrome (poetic blindness), where a person with normal mental abilities stands out as peculiar.

Question:
Is hell a literal "place"?

Answer:
Yes, hell is a literal place.
or
No, hell is not a literal pace.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
What I do, which is understanding metaphors, you label as being linguistically "perverse" because it does not match standard literal meanings.

No, I label it as perverse because it does not make sense even as a metaphor.
A metaphor is useless unless it does something to point the mind in the direction of the idea being conveyed.
If you want to suggest an aggressive force, "roaring lion" is a good metaphor, and "devouring fire" is a good metaphor.
But "gates" would be a nonsensical metaphor, because absolutely nothing about the word "gates" suggests aggression.
Gates are essentially passive. You have never, in your life, approached a gate wondering whether it was going to attack you. Your only concern was getting through it. Anyone who tried to offer "gates" as a metaphor of aggression would not be a poet; he would just be an incompetent communicator, completely failing to express his meaning.

I do not believe for one moment that you are even trying to understand this metaphor, in good faith.
You are simply trying to force it into the Procrustean bed of your obsession with A.D. 70.
You are a consistent practitioner of eisegesis rather than exegesis.
Your approach to the language of the New Testament resembles Humpty Dumpty's;
["But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'", Alice objected.
"When I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less".]

That is why I call it perverse.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I do not believe for one moment that you are even trying to understand this metaphor, in good faith.

Where is the metaphor?
You are just making a straightforward literal interpretation.
One that connects Peter's keys of the kingdom with the teachers of the Law's keys that they had, but never used.

Jesus was making a metaphor (with the symbol of keys), that their position as teachers to Israel gave them the opportunity to prepare people for the Kingdom of God that was of a spiritual nature.

The material, physical kingdom that those teachers of the law were concerned about instead, was liable to going the way of all flesh.

Peter saw past the physical reality that Jesus held no material office, but recognized him as Messiah anyway, by seeing it in spiritual terms.

The material, physical kingdom that those teachers of the law were concerned about instead, was liable to going the way of all flesh.

Peter saw past the physical reality that Jesus held no material office, but recognized him as Messiah anyway, by seeing it in spiritual terms.

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

You are correct that they were choosing flesh over spirit. That is exactly what the gates of hades are. My first post about the stationed cherubim and the burning sword in the midst of them was speaking of this. The cherubim are symbolic of the veil of flesh.

Jesus contrasts flesh and blood way of knowledge, (which is the tree of knowledge of good and evil) with the revealing from the father. (which is the tree of life)

The word reveal is unveil, to remove the veil of death.

Isa 25
6The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.

7And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

8He will swallow up death for all time,(INCLUDING THE SECOND DEATH)
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.

9And it will be said in that day,
“Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.”

this last part was in response to Seede (and possibly Disraeli) concerning the scope of salvation for mankind.

there is no end to his mercies they are new every morning. and

God will be all in all.

originally posted by: zardust

The material, physical kingdom that those teachers of the law were concerned about instead, was liable to going the way of all flesh.

Peter saw past the physical reality that Jesus held no material office, but recognized him as Messiah anyway, by seeing it in spiritual terms.

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

You are correct that they were choosing flesh over spirit. That is exactly what the gates of hades are. My first post about the stationed cherubim and the burning sword in the midst of them was speaking of this. The cherubim are symbolic of the veil of flesh.

Jesus contrasts flesh and blood way of knowledge, (which is the tree of knowledge of good and evil) with the revealing from the father. (which is the tree of life)

The word reveal is unveil, to remove the veil of death.

Isa 25
6The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.

7And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

8He will swallow up death for all time,(INCLUDING THE SECOND DEATH)
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.

9And it will be said in that day,
“Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.”

this last part was in response to Seede (and possibly Disraeli) concerning the scope of salvation for mankind.

there is no end to his mercies they are new every morning. and

God will be all in all.

Thanks for posting Zardust.You are getting the jest of it.Yahoshua was saying Simon "heard" from the Father by "revelation (unveiling) not through "studying" books.All of the scriptures are about one thing....Yahoshua.....that's all they testify of.They are not a method of religion to "know" the creator God.Knowing the creator God only comes through revelation.The cornerstone of revelation is ALL of mankind WILL BE delivered from the realm of death and imperception (hades).

Simon received revelation from the Father yet a few verse later satan (Simons carnal religious mind) went right back to religion and was denying Yahoshua.He eventually denies him in his darkest hour.Peter is the archetype of the carnal religious man.His actions and words are in conflict because he hadn't had his belief destroyed at the wide gate of destruction but he eventually does.Nothing is as it seems.

The disciples were not great "spiritual men"(whatever the hell that means).They were whacked out religious nutcases.That's why Yahoshua cracked them first.!!..however Yahosua clearly stated to "only" them was it given to "hear" (know by revelation) of the Kingdom of the creator God as the chosen few firstfruits.Yahoshua went on to say "Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has,[the disciples] more will be given, and from the one who has not[everyone else especially the religious], even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.”

This is NOt what the majority of Christians believe because they have everything twisted around!They believe THEY are the chosen few(yet there are 2 billion out of 7 billion on the planet now) because Yahoshua said TO THE DISCIPLES ONLY.... I have chosen you ,you have not chosen me...and..NONE can come to me unless the Father draws them.

The Father is doing EVERYTHING yet the religious think they have some part in it.That "studying the scriptures thinking that IN them they have life YET they fail to come to Yahoshua[Yahweh IS salvation/deliverance] whom they testify of that he would deliver them from the realm of imperception of "their religion" (hades).They "believe" they have "chosen" to believe God by their "free will" and now they are "special yet NOTHING could be further from the truth.

The creator God is doing it ALL and not by some mystic voodoo magic called "spirituality" with vain rituals and religious false doctrines of men.This is the creator God's "existence" and there is absolutely NOTHING we can do to change or alter it one bit...we are just here for the ride...Thank God!!

originally posted by: DISRAELI

If we think of these realms as two areas with a single doorway passing between them, then this door will have two functions at the same time, as the exit from one realm and the entrance into the other.
In other words, “the gates of Hades” and “the door of the kingdom of heaven” can be seen as alternative names (from different angles) for one and the same passageway, leading between the two kingdoms.

Having read your elaborated interpretation, I can't possibly agree that the door of heaven is the same as the gates of hell on the other side.

Between the two is situated our world, including our planet, our state of existence that is granted naturally by God's love, and the state of grace bought by the blood of Jesus Christ, that is effective for a significant number of people. Those people do not live behind the gates of hell. Even if someone tries to prove the remaining (majority) who do not have the grace of Jesus Christ live there.

Also in that model it is not accounted for the billions of stars and galaxies. They are also somewhere between the door of heaven the highest home of God, and the gates of hell the lowest dwelling of satan and the lake of fire.

I know you could probably find volumes of arguments and quotes of Holy Scripture to defend your position better than I could do. Including elaborated discussion what is the difference between Hades and Hell. Or perhaps you could define the difference between heaven and sky (both named with latin word caelum) and today's knowledge of universe and cosmos, or "celestial". Because such a difference is hardly made in the wording of Sacred Scripture, in time of lack of scientific knowledge we enjoy today. It is easy to put everything in Bible quotes and to pretend this is the complete picture of the world. Only, is it a picture of the real world?

Those are just my two cents

a reply to: 2012newstart
a) There is a sense in which mortals on this earth are already within the realm of the dead.
Did not Jesus refer to non-disciples as "the dead" when he said "Let the dead bury their dead"?
b) There is a sense in which those who enter the kingdom are already transferred into the realm of eternal life.
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood HAS [not "will have"] eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day"- John ch6 v54
"God has...made us alive together with Christ...and raised us up with him and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"- Ephesians ch3 vv-5-6
In other words we are ALREADY seated in the heavenly places even now.

If we can be within the realm of the dead in this life, and enter the realm of eternal life in this life, then the trensition between the two takes place within this life.
And the act of transferring from one to the other can be described in two ways, as entering the realm of life or as leaving the realm of death.
That is what can make them the same gateway.

a reply to: DISRAELI

There is a mention of the "power of hades" in this video..



Along with this thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Could be a flood coming soon?


Wi-Fi

a reply to: Wifibrains
I'm limiting myself to Biblical sources, because the object of the exercise is to look for what the Bible means on the subject.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Wifibrains
I'm limiting myself to Biblical sources, because the object of the exercise is to look for what the Bible means on the subject.

The same thing?

I guarantee it. The bible (jesus) tells how to tap in to it.

Why dismiss or place limits, you could be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

a reply to: Wifibrains
I place limits because I am only interested in what the Bible means on the subject.
That was the purpose of the thread.

a reply to: DISRAELI

"come now let us reason together" saith the Lord...

Or you could have it your way....



Lol