18 year old gets a year in prison for "baconizing" mosque

The sort of mindset being dealt with from the other side of it.

Justice isn't blind. It sees a horde of angry terrorists just waiting to storm the streets in protest.

Scotland has had hundreds of years of religious intolerance... we are trying to get out act together and the last thing we need is assholes creating another pointless childish divide..

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko
Again though, just a friendly reminder that Scotland has it's own internationally recognised legal system so let's take England, Wales and Northern Ireland out of this thread. It is an important distinction for those who understand the governance of the (currently) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
This is a solely Scottish issue and has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the UK.

Sorry, I got it wrong, and I should know better because, believe it or not, I do know where Edinburgh is.

Either way, I was simply trying to parse whether this was charged as the American equivalent of a hate crime or not.

The kid should get a medal.

i think the sentance is ok, i dont see why anyone can sympathize with them(unless you hate muslims).
it was a hate crime (a stupid and petty one), and two morons have been removed from society for a year.
as for the uk gov' bending over for muslims, i think your right. but that is politics.

originally posted by: Restricted
The kid should get a medal.

Yes, intolerance and bigotry is something to be celebrated.

The people on this site never fail to remind me what kind of scum still resides in this world...

a reply to: ketsuko
No apology expected or required, I'm just making sure everyone knows that Scotland sets it's own laws in it's own internationally recognised legal system.
This case has nothing to do with England, Wales, or Northern Ireland. It is a solely Scottish issue.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Would you be upset with it if they put swastikas all over a jewish temple? Maybe cows meat all over a hindu place of worship?

Like it or not, its a hate crime. Most western countries have hate crime laws. Dont want to get punished for hate crimes? Dont commit hate crimes.

It really is that simple.

I'd be upset about it, but I don't think the sentence should be a year in prison. Same thing applies: make the people wash off the swastikes and do yard work, make the people clean up the hamburger and do yard work. Are you sensing a trend here?

I also don't believe in the concept of "hate crime." In a hate crime, you are attempting to criminalize thought and intent. You can't read a person's mind. The outcome is the crime, and it should be punished according to the tangible damage it caused. If someone is beaten up, the crime is assault. Why is the assault somehow more of an assault if you believe the assault to be motivated by racial animus? Are the bruises worse? Will the broken bones heal slower? Of course not, you are just attempting to punish someone more for "thinking" wrong, but I think anytime someone thinks badly enough that they are willing to commit a crime for any reason, it's enough.

And all the incidents described:

bacon on mosque
hamburger on hindu temple
swastika on jewish temple

Are more or less minor vandalism that can be easily cleaned up with no lasting damage to the structures.

a reply to: Logarock

The farmer started holding pig races during prayer with the SOLE purpose of aggravating the Muslims next door? What an asshat!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yea after the guy provoked him. Did you watch the whole vid? They wanted the pig farm out before the pig races started.

I point out the arrogance of a Muslim that would buy property next to an established pig farm and then tell the farmer to move.

a reply to: ketsuko

I also don't believe in the concept of "hate crime.

Doesnt matter. They exist.

In a hate crime, you are attempting to criminalize thought and intent.

You're kidding, right? So, your claim is that this kid specifically putting bacon on a mosque was NOT motivated based on specific beliefs of muslims?

REALLY?

There is no question of intent here. To claim otherwise is foolish.

The outcome is the crime, and it should be punished according to the tangible damage it caused.

So, in your mind, my breaking your car window should be treated the same as, say, painting the n-word all over a black person's car?

Seriously?

. If someone is beaten up, the crime is assault. Why is the assault someone more of an assault if you believe the assault to be motivated by racial animus?

This is pretty broad....i have a hard time debating straw men.

a reply to: Rikku

All crimes could be considered hate crimes. Do you usually hear about folks committing crimes against people they love? If so, they must not love them very much.

Maybe the sentence would be fine if it was the same sentence handed down for all people who defile/deface religious institutions... Not just the ones that are the flavor of the month. If it's a church, temple, etc. all of it should have the same weight if judgements are going to be handed down. One is not worth more than the other and sentencing one as if it is more than the other is wrong. Period.

JMO of course. I know others obviously feel different.

I think we can all agree that is was a stupid, callous, hateful thing to do regardless.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: Restricted
The kid should get a medal.

Yes, intolerance and bigotry is something to be celebrated.

The people on this site never fail to remind me what kind of scum still resides in this world...

Oh wow like Muslims have some really great moral high ground in that department. Have you noticed what the Shiites and Sunnis are doing to each other in Iraq?

a reply to: captaintyinknots

So, in your mind, my breaking your car window should be treated the same as, say, painting the n-word all over a black person's car?

That's not exactly apples to apples.

Should someone receive a harsher sentence for egging a vegan's house compared to a carnivore's house?

a reply to: LABTECH767

because christains are the majority. and therefore... (tl;dr)

All crimes could be considered hate crimes. Do you usually hear about folks committing crimes against people they love?

no , most crimes are oportunistic and personal gain. these to people did what they did only to offend.

a reply to: Rikku

these to people did what they did only to offend.

Ahh yes. Offending someone is the worst. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but offense will traumatize me".

a reply to: Soloprotocol
Indeed.
I am glad that growing up in Wales I was not subjected to the childlike religious sectarianism which is quite easily found in Scotland.
I can see how religious intolerance worries continue to exist in that part of the UK and why the independent legal system of Scotland may react accordingly to the local religious intolerance issues they may face..

a reply to: captaintyinknots

No, I'm not kidding.

You start trying to set up "hate" crimes and you start setting up "protected classes" of people and religions and groups where others aren't. It must be pretty poor fun being a comedian these days because you have to be very, very careful not to offend anyone, not that you'll be charged with a hate crime, but the PC police are watching you and if you go too far, they're coming.



Something to illustrate what I'm trying to get at.

And hate crimes come from the same root. They're an attempt to punish you for thinking wrong.

So, in your mind, my breaking your car window should be treated the same as, say, painting the n-word all over a black person's car?

Either one is vandalism, so yes. Was it a hate crime when those two Dodgers fans attacked Brian Stow? They only did it because he was a Giants fan. I'll bet they weren't charged with a hate crime, but I'll bet you could make the case that the motivation for their attack was very similar to what motivates a person to paint the "n" word all over a black person's car.

So why is it worse for a person of one ethnicity to beat up a person of another, but it's simple assault or "mayhem" when the fans of one team do it to the fan of another?