Dear ATS Ancient Astronaut-ers....I have a present for you ;)

The fact that there are so many makes it less likely to me that they are fakes. Not impossible but less likely. A dozen would do. No need to do 50-100 of them. What we need is some providence. Maybe a video recording of some of the findings, or some credible experts involved, to show that they were found or dug up from an undisturbed strata, or some other reasonable location. They had to come from some where. But there is too little info on these I must say. For such astounding finds, why aren't any being examined by, and therefore discussed by, any experts or Universities?

I still think that it's a waste of time to hoax so many of these. There's more chance of an iconographical, or historical, or methodical slip up with more hoaxes items. More of a chance something will be caught and pointed out that points to it being a hoax.

Also, one important question to ask... Has any money been made off of these? Can someone calculate how long it would take to make all these? How much money would you have to make for it to be worth it? Is someone putting these up for auction?

Why waste so much time, energy, and/or money to make so many of these when it's gonna be so easy for a scientist in a laboratory to say they are fake? If even one or two don't hold up to scrutiny, the entire collection will be put into question.

What I found freaky, in the link given by Phage (I don't have a Facetime Book page sorry op), was the number of carvings of a priest in ceremonial mask holding an infant while standing underneath a hovering saucer with a beam coming down... in some of them, the priest was thrusting the infant upward, holding it above his head like an offering to the hovering craft. Creepy!

In some it was hard to figure out what was going on which made me think that was another indicator of authenticity. If you were making a hoax like this you would want all the "scenes" to be recognizable. But then I can probably chalk that up to my lack of knowledge in the Era depicted, and the proposed hoaxer's abundance of knowledge in that same area. Maybe an expert on the Maya would recognize it just fine which was possibly what was intended in order to give it an air of authenticity because it has something only a true Maya would know about.

I can go either way with this, but I'm maybe 51-55% leaning towards it being real 20-25% I have no clue and 20-25% it being fake.

a reply to: 3n19m470
Great post!
You bring up some interesting lines of thought.
Wish I had something to add...but will just mull this over for a bit.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Why waste so much time, energy, and/or money to make so many of these when it's gonna be so easy for a scientist in a laboratory to say they are fake? If even one or two don't hold up to scrutiny, the entire collection will be put into question.

Because maybe by the time the hoax have been uncovered money from books,speaking engagements perhaps a documentary or two would be sitting in the bank not to mention that one can always scream cover-up by hostile forces and that large amount of the faithful would still believe you,how many here still believe in the tenets of Chariot Of The Gods,despite reading Crash Goes Chariots Of The Gods.

A couple of folks here posted a Youtube vid on similar or the same artifacts in which there was a big to do 2012 documentary coinciding with the Mayan Calender and prophecy the disclosure was supposedly green lighted by the Mexican government what happened??.. zilch..O..naada!! those guys lied through their teeth, buuut they are still out there giving speaking engagements because many still listen.

a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Be specific.
Did you watch the video? I did. Twice.
You said several of them are listed, I only listed 'several' in the OP, please go on describe which ones you have seen in the video.
I said I saw the first one only in the Maya site.
It will be helpful if you can be specific.

They look way too modern cartoonish...

What we need to do is look at other real examples from the same period, measure the groves under a microscope and compare the style.

in many if not most cases, the stylized 'flying saucers' are actually stylized sacred MUSHROOMS, sometimes showing the cosmonaut during the ecstatic trip inside the mushroom, not inside a spacecraft.

lets see... there is either a stem leading to a mushroom on most of these pieces, or there is a flying saucer that shoots a rocket blast straight down. wait, flying saucers don't shoot rocket blasts, but mushrooms do have stems.

well, what do we know of these mezoamerican cultures? we know the priest and shamanic class ate psychedelic mushrooms ritualistically, and fairly frequently. we also know there are no flying saucer artifacts in the digs studying these cultures.

what about those funny faced alien entities depicted? they are a common sight during the ritualized mushroom experience.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz


a reply to: Harte

Which ones? Be specific.
Did you watch the video? I did. Twice.

here's one

no dice.
I didn't link that.

a reply to: Harte

Lol, they look more like "artifacts" from a Mexican flea market to me...

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
no dice.
I didn't link that.

a reply to: Harte

Part of the same collection.

Harte

a reply to: zazzafrazz

This is a hoax. The top pic in particular is obviously of modern origins. Everything about the first one screams late 20th or 21st century.

lol No offense, but anyone that swallows this really, really, really wants to believe, badly.

From the Facebook source.

Some of the identities that fell to help Assistant and in that time our pre-Hispanic brothers they were their gods.
Vanuciano (Quetzalcoatl) Axamaya (Pakal) Mamamucha, (Huitzilopochtli) Sianna, (Tonanzi), (XOCHI), (ISIS), (INANNA) AZTLAN the great the great library record that has to be known.

Channeled information.
Your friend Akachaman friend of the great shaman (Translated by Bing)

"Channeled information" . That says it all.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Obviously you have never seen true pre-columbian art/carvings/gold pieces.

I have. I have held pieces in my hand moments after being dug/removed from graves in the jungle. These are so OBVIOUSLY fakes it is laughable.

Show one, just one, pre-columbian piece that depicts a planet with rings such as in the first one. The representations of people are a bit too cartoonish and different than other real representations, not proof in and of itself, but when added to EVERYTHING else there is not a single reputable pre-columbian archaeologist that will give these any credence without some way of dating them.

The market in phony pre-columbian artifacts is huge, and the production of said artifacts is more than enough to supply that demand. This is just ridiculous, IMO

a reply to: bbracken677

Have no intention of swallowing anything. Read on.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Hey zazzafrazz,

You know? Most folks that are not "Ancient Astronutt-ers will see images like this...






...and realize that it is completely unnecessary to perform the kind of deep archaeological survey that you seem to be suggesting on something like this..



All of the images that you posted are behind a link under the photo tab on the page that you linked. It's all the same people, "Grupo Forteleza Aztlan".

And they don't deserve to use the name "Fortean" either, their research is far from "Fortean"; they are in fact a little Mexican UFO cult with "shaman" working as intermediaries so that the gullible can talk to the "space brothers" and buy an "amuleto".

So, what was the point in introducing us to a Mexican UFO cult and their trashy curios?

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

a reply to: seentoomuch LOL you are welcome.

now can anyone speak spanish and translate for us? from the same facebook site, interested know what this is. looks like a museum document?

Mexican here.

Indeed they are official documents from the National Institute for Anthropology and History, and the National Coordination for Archeology.

But they are only registration petitions. And are strangely listed as furniture.

To be clear, although these are official documents, they are only petitions to be recognized as originals!

Cheers

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Which is not to say that I got nothing from your thread. This is one of the most interesting heart lines that I have ever seen on a person.



Super educational.

a reply to: Bybyots

Wow B, Don't know how I ever survived ATS after being pwned like above......
Sigh ~

All of the images that you posted are behind a link under the photo tab on the page that you linked. It's all the same people, "Grupo Forteleza Aztlan".

Correct. and what? Its a link, not an endorsement.

they are in fact a little Mexican UFO cult with "shaman" working as intermediaries so that the gullible can talk to the "space brothers" and buy an "amuleto".

Very likely.
However, one thing an archaeologist or anthropologist would NEVER do in dealing with indigenous people is dismiss their shamanic history or experiences.
The australian aboriginal allows this generation to ocre spray their hand print on cave walls over and around 20 000 year old hand prints as its their ancestors and their history. Their story, not white mans.
So I like to see before dismissing anything do these people have ties to the area and history?
In this instance, unlikely.

A few of you have reallllly got your knickers in a knot over what items I chose for this little research experiment. If it stops you bleating, go ahead we can start another exercise on looking into other artefacts of your choosing.
Or,
you can ignore this thread...it is obviously beneath some of our esteemed ancient historians on ATS.

I'm afraid your belief in the fringe on ATS is a little high in regards to their gullibilty on any claims on ancient artefacts and I am encouraging people to look into something before going "wow aliens". To claim that EVERYONE on ATS sees straight through it, is well, delusional. I have spent years and years on ATS debating people who do just as you say they don't.

Should I have inked a known authentic artefact? Would that make you feel better ?
What difference does it make to the exercise if the exercise is researching to validate or debunk ancient artefacts?
If it stops you bleating, go ahead we can start another exercise on looking into ancient astronauts hysteria in our historical past that says 'these are fake, lets NOT research' instead of ' these could be fake, lets have some fun and try research'. Or, again, you can ignore this thread...

So, what was the point in introducing us to a Mexican UFO cult and their trashy curios?

I'm sure there is no need to link you to the hundreds of threads pertaining to 'proof' of alien intervention in our past that have thousands of pages dedicated to the subject by people BELIEVING in trashy curios.

So far from this threads I've made some new ATS buds, who even though they don't have much experience in historical research, enjoy the subject and I applaud them making guesses and learning. UNlike what YOU have gotten from this thread (apparently thats all that counts) Some have enjoyed going through the excerice of translating spanish documents, locating modern stone crafting equipment, locating the possible modern materials used in creating the objects, finding out about the group and their cult motives, tried their hand at understanding stylistic ancestral death cult art, tried to locate and evaluate the site as non archaeological.
Why stop someone from doing the research? Are they not meant to try, or just take your or my word for it?

People are constantly yelled at "DO YOUR RESEARCH FRINGE DWELLER MORON, NOT JUST WATCH YOU TUBE VIDEOS OR READ GRAHAM HANGCOK OR VON DANIKEN AS YOUR PROOF" . It's a little disconcerting the same people are yelling at people in this thread NOT to bother with trying their hand at basic easy research, it was meant to be a little fun, easy to work on exercise.

Gheeeeeesh sue me.

originally posted by: JoeTheJoe

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

Mexican here.

Indeed they are official documents from the National Institute for Anthropology and History, and the National Coordination for Archeology.

But they are only registration petitions. And are strangely listed as furniture.

To be clear, although these are official documents, they are only petitions to be recognized as originals!

Cheers

Awesome! thanks so much for joining the thread and taking the time!
How very odd It begs the question why would one get furniture "original design" clearance from the National Institute for Anthropology and History. Does it shed any more light?

me too!

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