Spiritual Reorientation 8: Spirituality Squandered

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posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: muzzleflash

Precisely, Mr. FLash...



And it is a gas to watch the "enlightened" succumb to ego and attempt a tendon cut on some poor slob on the Web... alas, we are all too human.


You can't cut someone's tendon through the web, can you?
That sounds near impossible.

If you meant hurt their feelings by saying things certain ways, than yeah.
But it's nothing like actually receiving a physical wound though.

People talk crap on me all the time, and I let it slide - usually.
Can't always resist the urge to fight back though, I admit.
However I do try to avoid fallacies in my responses, if possible.




posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

It always is assumed that one shouldn't defend one's own ideas, or stick up for oneself. I wonder what sort of botched logic this is based upon?



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Just wanted to clarify that:

1) I didn't necessarily mean you, personally, when I referenced the supposedly enlightened succumbing to pis... er, pee-peeing contests... I meant all of us, really, but more specifically web gurus who pose as a near-saint- like- enlightened being who inevitably "lose it" and resort to put-downs on the 'interwebs' (and in real life scenarious). And...

2) I was being metaphorical (badly) by calling ego driven put-downs "tendon cuts."

I plead brain damage, work rudely interrupting my posting and ...brain damage.



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
Maybe some souls need to sleepwalk through this life... or hurt things... or just be blissfully ignorant of the intricate dance of energy in everything.

Maybe everything is exactly like it should be.


This is the poem from where the quote 'Ignorance is Bliss' arose...but is it really?

www.poetryfoundation.org...

www.psychologytoday.com...



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Wonderful... I hadn't read that poem in decades. Thank you. And the article (honestly, I just skimmed it... heh) was interesting as well.

I've always tried to seek knowledge, to the best of my limited ability, and to be "in the know." But really, ignorance might truly be blissful; at least to the ignorant... but it drives those 'in the know' around them bonkers.

On this planet, at this time, knowing about even a small fraction of the zillions of: heart-breaks, injustices and methods of operations that harm where another mode would help, can be overwhelming and miserable. In that sense, a lack of information, and thus no time spent dwelling on it, is very likely blissful (at least until the blissful ignorance is ended by resultant catastrophe).

But to do any good, one has to know the bad. There are quite a few "catch-22's" in this life, huh? Sorry for the Thread Drift.



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism

Many different posters have taken the time to shoot down your anti-spirituality arguments again and again in thread after thread, but none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. You just decieve your opponents and move on. You have no honor. There is no use giving you food for thought, none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. So I'm content with being a pain in your butt, in the hopes that you will leave before you can do any real psychological damage to anyone foolish enough to listen to your hate filled rhetoric.

edit on 945Friday000000America/ChicagoJun000000FridayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: BlueMule


Many different posters have taken the time to shoot down your anti-spirituality arguments again and again in thread after thread, but none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. You just deceive your opponents and move on. You have no honor. There is no use giving you food for thought, none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. So I'm content with being a pain in your butt, in the hopes that you will leave before you can do any real psychological damage to anyone foolish enough to listen to your hate filled rhetoric.


Aah, you fear me, BlueMule. I’m flattered.

Your “food for thought” is always scraps from another’s table. I'm not a dog, and I wouldn’t eat them if I was starving.

I hate to quote myself, but it seems I’ve described your attitude in the OP quite aptly.

“Instead, spirituality today is sectarian in nature, the result of which we mistakenly confuse a single system of ideas as a totalitarian authority over the organization of human life. In turn, these structures of thoughts become heavily defended, even to the point that people are willing to end life in their name rather than to face belittlement, and hence remain no longer subject to the human refinement that follows any criticism. What we have left are shackles and cages, where there could have been ever growing trees.”



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

It's cool no worries I was being an ***. Dunno why lol.

I agree though we are all "Tendon cuts" as you say lol.
Ha that makes me wanna come up with all sorts of funky things

This must be the "Jugular Slice"?

Oh I just realized "Tendon" works. Because it's "Tender". Epiphany Epilepsy Time.
Ten Don? Yeah 1+0 is the "Don" that Won, and the "Dawn" of the One.
But is this "Tenuous"? Ten You Us?

tenuous (ˈtɛnjʊəs)
adj
1. insignificant or flimsy: a tenuous argument.
2. slim, fine, or delicate: a tenuous thread.
3. diluted or rarefied in consistency or density: a tenuous fluid.

1. Long and thin; slender: tenuous strands.
2. Having a thin consistency; dilute.
3. Having little substance; flimsy: a tenuous argument.


But why is it so flimsy and weak? Because it's a "Tender" Argument that goes down easily see?
Tenuous is our Tenderness! That means we are actually Strong in my Estimation.

Let's take a Deeper Look at: Wiki "Tender"


Tender plants which cannot withstand freezing temperatures

Cuz being a jerk is being "Cold".


Legal tender, a term for currency
Request for tender, a structured invitation to vendors for the supply of goods or services
Tendering, or public procurement, a way in which bodies governed by public law buy what they need for their activities
Tender offer, used to propose a buyout of a public company


It's 'goods', has value, etc.


Chicken tender

Yer just bein a chicken, tender and all.


Tender (Until the Violence Stops), London-based charity that works to prevent domestic and sexual violence


Make that violence stop! So we can learn ancient history instead of fight all the time?
And have a Churro? It's really 'tender' claimed wiki.

churro, a tender pastry popular in Spanish speaking countries.



A churro, sometimes referred to as a Spanish doughnut, is a fried-dough pastry—predominantly choux—based snack. Churros are popular in Spain, France, the Philippines, Portugal, Ibero-America and the United States. There are two types of churros in Spain, one which is thin (and sometimes knotted) and the other which is long and thick (porra). They are both normally eaten for breakfast dipped in hot chocolate or café con leche.


Sounds really good actually.


The origin of churros is unclear. One theory is they were brought to Europe by the Portuguese. The Portuguese sailed for the Orient and, as they returned from Ming Dynasty China to Portugal, they brought along with them new culinary techniques, including modifying the dough for You tiao also known as Youzagwei in Southern China, for Portugal. However, they modified it by introducing a star design because they did not learn the Chinese skill of "pulling" the dough (the Chinese Emperor made it a capital crime to share knowledge with foreigners). [1]

Another theory is that the churro was made by Spanish shepherds, to substitute for fresh bakery goods. Churro paste was easy to make and fry in an open fire in the mountains, where shepherds spend most of their time.[2][3]


Interesting, so was it Portugal - China or was it just Spanish? Hmmm. Let's investigate the You tiao link.

Youtiao, also known as the Chinese cruller,[1] Chinese oil stick, Chinese doughnut, and fried breadstick,[citation needed] is a long golden-brown deep-fried strip of dough eaten in China and (by a variety of other names) in other East and Southeast Asian cuisines.


Ohh maybe it is, compare them. It's highly possible. Hmmm, what if it was both though?
Anyways let's get Wyrd lol.


Tender is a compilation album by British rock artists Wishbone Ash, released in May 2008 by the Talking Elephant label.[1] It features mellow songs by the band and complements the album Tough, featuring a compilation of rock numbers, that was released at the same time.[2]

Tough is a compilation album by British rock artists Wishbone Ash, released in May 2008 by the Talking Elephant label.[1] It features rock numbers by the band and complements the album Tender, featuring a compilation of mellow tunes, that was released at the same time.[2]


Oh ok I get it. So Tender compliments Tough, and Tough compliments Tender. It's like the Yin Yang essentially.
Thanks for the tip "Wishbone Ash" and "Talking Elephant".

So now we are on the Pilgrimage
What the heck's that? Pil Grim Age? Or Grim Mage or Gri Mage?
What's "Pil"?
Ok so we are in the

Python Imaging Library


Oh it's Johnny Rotten singin to us.

Public Image Ltd (PiL) are an English post-punk band formed by vocalist John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten), guitarist Keith Levene and bassist Jah Wobble, with frequent subsequent personnel changes. Lydon is the sole constant member of the band.


Anyways, "Gri" ?
Just imagine what could be said about all of these things in this hidden language of infinite meanings.

Where was I? Oh I didn't even get to Wishbone Ash songs on the Pilgrimage album. I didn't even get to any of their other albums like Argus.

Just imagine the infinities.

Argus is the third album by the rock band Wishbone Ash. The album features a blend of progressive rock, folk, and hard rock, and is considered a landmark album in the progression of twin-lead guitar harmonisation later adopted by bands such as Thin Lizzy and Iron Maiden. The sound engineer on Argus was Martin Birch, who also worked with Deep Purple, later with Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and other hard rock/heavy metal bands.[4]


"Throw Down the Sword" – 5:55 ?
"The King Will Come" – 7:06 ?
Cmon lol!

Tender is the vehicle that carries liquidity? *Ref to currency-currents see/sea?

Tender (rail), a type of railroad car hauled immediately after the locomotive and used to carry fuel and water
Water tender, fire truck tanker



Buoy tender, used to maintain Aids to Navigation (Aton) including buoys

So this is what maintains "Aton"? A Ton? "A Tone"?

Aten or Aton, the disk of the sun, regarded as a deity in ancient Egyptian religion

Right it's the "Sun". A Ten or A Ton - A Tone (It's the Voice of God's Infinite Knowledge).

This is Atonement

The moral influence view of the atonement teaches that the purpose and work of Jesus Christ was to bring positive moral change to humanity.


Man I'm all Atonal look-

Atonality in its broadest sense is music that lacks a tonal center, or key.

I'm all over the place I lack Center. It's 2 Tender and Tenuous?

Is this my mental Atonic Seizure

are a type of seizure that consist of a brief lapse in muscle tone that are caused by temporary alterations in brain function.


Muscle "Tone" ? Brain connection?
Post space filled.



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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That post above was a frenzy of energy I like to call a "Spiritual Event". To me that's what it's about. Discovery, Adventure, Living through my Heart and Mind to find something Exciting and New (to me at least)!

It doesn't take anything to do it. It just happens if you let it. If you REALLY want to know "It", "It Will Come".

It's that Field of Dreams my friends.
I just build and the Spirits come to show me what "Playin Ball" is all about.

Thanks for Teachin Us these Important Lessons, Shoeless Joe Jackson!

Ray Kinsella is a novice Iowa farmer who lives with his wife Annie and his daughter Karin. In opening narration, Ray explains how he had a troubled relationship with his father, John Kinsella, who was a devoted baseball fan. While walking through his cornfield one evening, Ray hears a voice that whispers, "If you build it, he will come." Ray continues hearing the voice before finally seeing a vision of a baseball diamond in his field. Annie is skeptical of his vision, but she allows Ray to plow under his corn to build the field. But as months pass by and nothing happens in the field, Ray's family faces financial ruin. However, Karin eventually spots a uniformed man in the field. Ray discovers that he is Shoeless Joe Jackson, a deceased baseball player idolized by Ray's father. Thrilled to be able to play baseball again, Joe asks to bring others to play on the field. He later returns from the cornfield with the seven other players banned in the 1919 Black Sox scandal.

After the game, Shoeless Joe invites Terence to enter the cornfield. Terence accepts the offer and disappears into the cornfield, but Ray is angry at not being invited. Joe rebukes Ray's desire for a reward, then reminds him why he sacrificed so much, saying "If you build it, he will come", and glances toward home plate. The catcher removes his mask and Ray recognizes his father as a young man. Shocked, Ray surmises that "Ease his pain" referred to his father, but Joe counters that the voice referred to Ray himself.


Ray introduces his father to Annie and Karin. As his father heads toward the cornfield, Ray asks his "Dad" to play catch. As they begin to play, hundreds of cars can be seen approaching the field, fulfilling Karin and Terence's prophecy that people will come to watch baseball.


So Ray, Annie and Karin (whose Carin) learned that "You Never Really Die", it's just some sorta Lie.
And that Prophecies do Come True if you "Hear that Tone" from "Beyond the Cornfield" and get to "Building Your Dream"... I cannot Figure Anything more "Spiritual" than that.


It's just about "Bringing What's Inside" to "The Outside" by "Building It in Reality". Why do you think they are called "Masons" anyway? Jesus was a "Carpenter" because he "Entered or Interred the Carp". Which is the Carpet so we just get down low it's all soft and fuzzy down there. Not quite a "Pil"low but it's softer than S"tone".

Alright I'll stop, but yall should know by now I could just run with these things forever.
Hehe...to me that's fun to write stuff like that. I gotta press post despite my reservations that I know yall will know I'm either 'freakin nuts' or 'gettin my freak on with Nut' which is the sacred cosmic egg or nut. Blah blah etc etc



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 02:03 AM
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Heheh....

Tinder (disambig)
Tinder

So maybe it's like paying tender to purchase fire?


Tinder is easily combustible material used to ignite fires by rudimentary methods. A small fire consisting of tinder is then used to ignite kindling. Anything that can be ignited by a match can be considered tinder; or by more rigorous definition, anything that begins to glow under a shower of sparks. The more restrictive definition is important in the study of survival skills, which redefines kindling as material requiring a match to ignite it.[1][2]


So many possibilities here...
Tinderbox

A tinderbox is a small container containing flint, firesteel, and tinder (typically charcloth, but possibly a small quantity of dry, finely-divided fibrous matter such as straw), used together to help kindle a fire.
Tinderboxes fell out of general usage when matches were invented.


Fire Striker

Kindling (disambig)
So if you look at the word itself, it's Kin (and Ken) which is our "Kind", and Ling which is Linguistics, Lingam, etc.

Covered some of those pretty extensively in other posts already.

Kind connects to kindness, which is 'kinda tender' lol.

Back to the...

Kindling model, the process by which major epileptic seizures are triggered by repeated small stimulation to the brain


Epileptic Seizures? Didn't I start this with that? Epiphany Epilepsy?

So the "Pil"-"Pill" is a "Bug", the Armadillidiidae:

common name of pill bugs[1] or roly polies,[2] or doodlebugs.[3]


I'm just "Doodling" I suppose? Doodle

A doodle is an unfocused or unconscious drawing made while a person's attention is otherwise occupied. Doodles are simple drawings that can have concrete representational meaning or may just be abstract shapes.


And what "Pill" are you going to take anyway??

Well I'm taking the Pillbox, and making it the Tinderbox, because it's Tender and I'm just gonna Render it Seized through that "Seizure" I keep getting on about....


Are the students laughing yet??

Kindling, a campus humor magazine for North Central College


I just can't get away from it every time I try I want it even more!!

Kindling (substance withdrawal), a process by which each subsequent withdrawal episode produces a more severe withdrawal syndrome


Gimme that 'Fantastic' Flame of Evil!

Kindling is the first novel in the Flame of Evil series written by Mick Farren, featuring The Four: a mythical group of young adults with supernatural powers. Its first edition was published in August 2004, and its first mass-market edition in February 2004.


A "Pill Organizer"? That's a box, has pills, people "take it" or "seize it" because they "need it". Organizes by dates etc, Organs play music, that's an Organ Gun yadda yadda.


A ravening horde of barbarians from the East, the Mosul Empire, in unholy alliance with the Teutons and the Mameluke warlords led by the brutal theocracy of the Zhaithan, has subjugated the Land of the Franks and the Hispanic Peninsula. Setting their sights on the New World, they have already conquered the Republic of Greater Carolina and the Virginia Freestate. Only the Kingdom of Albany still stands, aided by the Norse Alliance of Britain and Scandinavia.
Four youngsters from very different backgrounds are brought together to form The Four - a supernatural entity that becomes the last-ditch hope of the Free World.


Kindling (film 1915
Most interesting name combo in that I liked was "Lucien Littlefield as Fence". Lucy in the Little Field as a Fence? Haha!
Well let's make that "Fence" into Kindling and it creates what??? Luci !


Luci is an English feminine given name variant of Lucy and an Italian surname derived from the Latin personal name Lucius (from Latin Lux, genitive Lucis, meaning "light").


So that's a Firewall that keep bad things out? Makin that offering to the God? Kindling? Tinder? Gettin all tender for the Don Aten?

Are these "Illusions" Real Reflections?

Firewall, a song by Steve Vai off his Real Illusions: Reflections album



Firewall (physics), a hypothetical phenomenon where a freely falling observer spontaneously burns up at the horizon of a black hole


Gonna lay down a "wall of fire" for the good fight like a GI Joe named Firewall workin under that "Mainframe"?

Firewall is the code name of Michele LaChance. She was born in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and learned early on that she had a knack for computers. In high school, she figured out how to access protected school records and alter grades. This eventually led to hacking government systems and classified military computers, which landed her in federal prison. But her handiwork impressed enough people, that she was sent to the G.I. Joe Team under supervision of Mainframe.


So it's like Hackers and Slashers, Up and Down, Yin and Yang.


A wall inside a kiln, made from fire brick or other refractory furniture that reflects flames from a burner

Killin in the Kiln ?

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego?
They had the real "Firewall"...

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are men recorded in the book of Daniel Chapters 1–3, known for their exclusive devotion to God. In particular, they are known for being saved by divine intervention from the Babylonian execution of being burned alive in a fiery furnace.

Their Hebraic names were Hananiah (חֲנַנְיָה), Mishael (מִישָׁאֵל) and Azariah (עֲזַרְיָה). It was probably by the King’s decree that Chief Official Ashpenaz assigned Chaldean names,


I'll stop there. Ya'll get the point. It's just 'Spiritual Doodling' I suppose...



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Bluesma

You would have less scars if you align yourself with some ideal and allow the herd to push you gently along, but in the end, I don't see how that is a good thing. Perhaps my scars aren't as deep as yours and I have no clue what I am talking about, but I would take loneliness over security any day, as long as it kept me apart from the mob, which, from my angle, seems to be destroying the earth and each other at an alarming rate.


What I wish, is that I was capable of aligning myself with any ideal, for even a day, and moving with the herd. It seems I am incapable of being a part of a collective, of a group. Apparently, just as you can find people who start life finding security in a group, they become incapable of independance, others, like me, learn security lies in self and separation from others, so that they can no longer step out of that conditioning and experience interdependance (or teamwork, or any sort of collective effort or emotion).
I think it would be a good thing. I see much happiness and joy can circulate through people in a group, and I observe both mental and psychological benefits to such connectedness.





Like I said, it is dangerous and harrowing path. Depression, gluttony, perversion, addiction—this is why a life such as ours is dangerous. We risk a lot, and not everyone makes it, but our vulnerability, though at risk the whole time, is the reminder.

Neuroticism, the constant pressure and stress of feeling the slightest step could lead to terrible pain or death, I find to be a blockage, an obstacle, to experience. Sometimes knowing too much gets in the way.
I watch some people, sometimes, that step out into experiences with a huge ignorance about the potential dangers... and yet, like a miracle, none of those dangers happen! Their confidence in life is confirmed for them.
While the ones that know, that have already fallen in holes and been traumatized, seem to attract all the possible dangers, because the universe reflects to you your world view.





There is a relative amount of safety within petty constraints. The same can be achieved by lobotomy.


I respect your opinion there, (though I find a lobotomy a poor parallel, with different results/effects). I don't find that confidence in self and life petty. It seems to be quite a boost. But then I am watching from the outside and the grass is on the other side...I could be wrong.





Indeed, such tools are pacifiers and pain killers, and you're right to say they work wonders in that department. But then again, so is death, so are full-frontal lobotomies.

Babies and small children need pacifiers and pain killers. I had to watch my three year old get her face and head sown back together without any anesthetic, and her horrible pain and fear set a conditioning which made even stepping near a hospital terrifying. How is that a gift? Something to be proud of and reflect in old age?




To go about life not feeling, because at one time we didn't like what we felt, seems dreadful to me, and many of those tools offer this escape.
How did you cope with your powerlessness and suffering without these tools to help you endure?


As a child, the feeling of being abandoned, unloved, and left for predators was unbearable. You may call that a refusal to accept my experience- it truly felt like I could not survive with that. Some studies indicate that small chidlren or babies will actually just die without touch or affection.

I used the same sort of tools, but they were not collectively endorsed and supported- I created an internal world of characters and stories, which made for designs I could retreat to when physical pain was being administered. I could run inside to the protective characters I took from books, and pretend Krishna or Christ were laughing with me as we walked in a field of flowers, instead of a smelly drunk man raping me painfully.

I had the books, but no other people to teach me the ideas within, so I came up with my own interpretations. But they worked. I was able to use that world like a cubby hole to sit in, until it was safe to come back into the world.
Perhaps a lobotomy would have provided something similar- but how do you undo a lobotomy?

When it was time to leave these tools behind, because life had changed, I had to leave behind a part of myself- whereas those who had shared such a belief system with a group (an organized religion, for example) could just project it all onto a church, or a group of people, and leave them behind. I think the cathartic effects of projection are often underestimated.
Pretending your demons, your doubts and your contradictions are someone else is a great gift in this world which is a stage! It allows you to believe you are all clear and focused, instead of a bag of contradictions and ambivalences which hinder decision, choice, sense of purpose.



Not demonizing them; reorienting them. A huge part of my point is that we can change these structures, rather than let them change us.


Is it not the believer you choose to re-orient? In convincing the believer that the ideas are destructive, then perhaps you can influence them to change them? I guess I meant "demonizing" as a way of saying "making the ideas out to be bad".
But perhaps i misunderstood your original meaning. That happens. I remain a big foocking mess of contradictions and ambivalences to sort through....



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 04:57 AM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule


Many different posters have taken the time to shoot down your anti-spirituality arguments again and again in thread after thread, but none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. You just deceive your opponents and move on. You have no honor. There is no use giving you food for thought, none of it gets through that thick skull of yours. So I'm content with being a pain in your butt, in the hopes that you will leave before you can do any real psychological damage to anyone foolish enough to listen to your hate filled rhetoric.


Aah, you fear me, BlueMule. I’m flattered.


Aah, this is the part where I am supposed to say, "I fear nothing! I am big and strong!"

You get flattered easily, eh?


Your “food for thought” is always scraps from another’s table. I'm not a dog, and I wouldn’t eat them if I was starving.


Aah, this is the part where I'm supposed to say, "You are so a dog! You aren't worthy of scraps! Bad dog!"


I hate to quote myself, but it seems I’ve described your attitude in the OP quite aptly.

“Instead, spirituality today is sectarian in nature, the result of which we mistakenly confuse a single system of ideas as a totalitarian authority over the organization of human life. In turn, these structures of thoughts become heavily defended, even to the point that people are willing to end life in their name rather than to face belittlement, and hence remain no longer subject to the human refinement that follows any criticism. What we have left are shackles and cages, where there could have been ever growing trees.”



Aah, you fear spirituality, Aphorism. Now comes the part where I say, "I'm flattered".

You don't need to be afraid. There is a season for growing trees, and a season for shackles and cages. You can't have one without the other. Roll with it.



edit on 505SaturdayuAmerica/ChicagoJunuSaturdayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Muzzle,

Your wild frenzy of creativity is a thousand times more concrete and beneficial than anything a mystic has ever done.

I'm a fan of your stream of consciousness.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma


What I wish, is that I was capable of aligning myself with any ideal, for even a day, and moving with the herd. It seems I am incapable of being a part of a collective, of a group....
...I think it would be a good thing. I see much happiness and joy can circulate through people in a group, and I observe both mental and psychological benefits to such connectedness.


I fear we are a lot alike.

I don’t think being a part of a collective in that manner is as difficult as you say, but I admit that I refrain from taking part often enough. Much of it seems stupid, and the intention rather meaningless. Maybe it’s our pessimism. But then again, when I find myself in a different culture, I do everything I can to immerse myself in it. There’s is not much to fear of the group when you are no longer susceptible to its ideological influence and group think. I still go to churches believe it or not. I don’t believe in any of it, but I do not think its a waste of time to sit in a cathedral and listen to a giant organ play hymns. I think I may have practiced the rituals of every religion, at least for the sake of interest, and some can be beautiful, and others, hilarious. I don’t know many of those who idolize one particular institution over another who would allow themselves the chance to do something like that.

For me anyways, the chances to take part in communal activity is greater, and of more variety and flavour, without those illusory constraints that goes with aligning oneself to a particular ideal. There is no longer any barriers.

Have you come to any conclusion about why you do not find yourself in communal activity? A good technique for me is to drop everything I think I know about it, gain knowledge from experience rather than preconception, and pretend like I belong. It has worked wonders in most cultures and groups I have had the chance to participate in.

A word of the wise, however—don’t ever go to a pop music concert. Danger lurks within.


Neuroticism, the constant pressure and stress of feeling the slightest step could lead to terrible pain or death, I find to be a blockage, an obstacle, to experience...


I agree. I don’t have any difficulties with it myself, and I have long learned how not to focus on it, but I am fully aware of that complication. For some reason I have fantastic reflexes, and often my body reacts long before my mind. On some occasions, I have learned to feel the body, rather than listen to it.


Babies and small children need pacifiers and pain killers. I had to watch my three year old get her face and head sown back together without any anesthetic, and her horrible pain and fear set a conditioning which made even stepping near a hospital terrifying. How is that a gift? Something to be proud of and reflect in old age?


It sounds awful; and your point here poses the most difficult problem for any sort of life-affirming outlook, and anything I say risks trivializing hers and yours very real trauma, pain and suffering for mere sophistry. It is not my intention to do so.

That being said, Life is the gift. Life contains pain and suffering and also its opposite. Of course, this idea is all in hindsight and reflection, and actually quite meaningless in the face of pain, and no one will convince themselves that “Life is a gift” while enduring the utmost pain. Myself, I have battled cancer and chemo, depression, and the constant awareness of my mortality. I have broken much of my body. I suffer from cluster headaches (one year since my last episode..knock on wood). And I have experienced the loss of love and loved ones. But these sorts of things are what living entails; and despite the horror that life contains, we’re still here living, when at any point we could have exited stage left and ended it all—indeed, many people do. The reason we have endured and not ended it all is the answer to your question. Why do we remain? Why do we persist? Why do we endure?

It’s like Siddartha. When he was young, his father went to great lengths to shelter him from any sort of suffering by hiding it behind a blanket of pleasure. The young Siddartha knew only pleasure, and only ever saw youth, bounty, happiness, and optimism. But he got bored of it, and finally, upon learning more about what occurred outside his hedonistic box, he sought a new pleasure—pain and suffering. In other words, he sought life.


I could run inside to the protective characters I took from books, and pretend Krishna or Christ were laughing with me as we walked in a field of flowers, instead of a smelly drunk man raping me painfully.


Indeed, how else could someone of such innocence cope with such horror? I cannot imagine another means of transcending context in your experience. These coping mechanisms get us through our most trying times. I would have to agree that such escapism is often necessary in order to face the brute facts of existence. Imagination to the rescue.


Is it not the believer you choose to re-orient? In convincing the believer that the ideas are destructive, then perhaps you can influence them to change them? I guess I meant "demonizing" as a way of saying "making the ideas out to be bad".


I don’t think ideas are bad—I love ideas; they are completely innocent given that they do not possess volition. Only the way we utilize them, and the way we give them precedence over the very beings that create them is what bothers me. By refuting these ideas and what I call “common spiritualities”, I only aim to show that one individual can transcend all ideas, destroy them and create them, and in turn, become more spiritual, rather than locked within an armor of compromise, structure and routine, because in all cases of ideology, society, institutional cultures, it was always one individual who created them. At some point, we must step out of the armor, and be vulnerable and innocent again. We can transcend our context; we can change it and influence our surroundings, rather than hide from it. Each individual is infinitely more powerful, larger, and concrete in comparison to any idea ever had. In this vein, it is never an idea as such that entraps an individual, but it is the individual himself that does so.

I always wonder why one seeks spirituality in a particular spiritual system and remains there. Spiritually, they stop. They soon become a part of that system and defend it and kill for it. I personally have gone to great lengths to try them all, but I don’t stop at any one system and instead keep climbing past them. In order to do this, these systems must be destroyed, not actually, but mentally. We kill people for our ideologies and spiritual systems, when we should kill ideologies and spiritual systems for people. It is dangerous, but one must risk becoming a heretic and a infidel in the eyes of those who embody these ideas. Like Plato’s cave—once they see you move beyond their idealistic structures, they will fear you, and they will kill you in the end.

I will get more into my reasoning in the next couple of posts in this series.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: BlueMule




Roll with it.


Sorry my friend, not happening. I'll still be here pouring salt on your wounds, laughing every time you swing and miss.



posted on Jun, 21 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

That was a spectacular regurgitation into the stream of consciousness, sir... bravo.

It provoked some laughs... and taught me some new words, so thanks.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 02:57 AM
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originally posted by: Aphorism

Have you come to any conclusion about why you do not find yourself in communal activity? A good technique for me is to drop everything I think I know about it, gain knowledge from experience rather than preconception, and pretend like I belong. It has worked wonders in most cultures and groups I have had the chance to participate in.



Oh I do get myself into communal activity, in literal terms- that is, I do not, as you described, find myself thinking "this is stupid and meaningless" while in a church mass- I go and take part in every collective activity I can. I WANT to belong, I WANT to be a part, I see beauty and meaning in such gatherings of human energy!!! I am giddy with the sight of all this human joy and aspiration towards beauty and good (whatever form they see it as).

The problem is that for all the ecstacy I can experience while there, it is never part of the whole- it is always an individual experience. I am never "in sync". When you watch the way a crowd will move, or spontaneously react together emotionally- I am never in it. I am always two steps behind or ahead, (if I am even in the same direction).

My mind doesn't "turn off" the way some others can- a whole group can be on the same trip, and I will be the only one seeing the huge holes in the reasoning for the conclusion they have all decided to draw together. The girl who points out the empereurs nudity and pisses everyone off because she ruined the ambiance.

I once wondered if I am autistic. Turns out I am far from it, because I am extremely empathic, but more so with individuals on a smaller scale, then massive groups.
Self analysis tells me that I have just become conditioned to stay alert and aware for details while around other people- my mind doesn't feel safe "letting go" to the crowd.

It is not enough, either that I consciously, willingly, WANT to- the conditioning is deeply embedded, beyond my conscious will.




A word of the wise, however—don’t ever go to a pop music concert. Danger lurks within.


I have been to many and did not get swept up. Was a punk rock teen, and mashed it up with everyone else, looking like I was being mindless, while subtly calculating so that I don't actually get hurt. I even went to some New Age guru stuff, kinda hoping to be swept out my own mind. Ended up sitting there feeling let down while hundreds of people around me were swooning and seeing entities that were supposed to be in the room, which I had no glimpse of.




It’s like Siddartha. When he was young, his father went to great lengths to shelter him from any sort of suffering by hiding it behind a blanket of pleasure. The young Siddartha knew only pleasure, and only ever saw youth, bounty, happiness, and optimism. But he got bored of it, and finally, upon learning more about what occurred outside his hedonistic box, he sought a new pleasure—pain and suffering. In other words, he sought life.




I think you understood my point, and I think I grasped yours on this, but I just wanted to add the distinction between the experiences of an individual at an age where they are able to form mental ideas or understandings about their experiences (pleasant or painful), and those who are not. I think smaller children need protection, both physical and mental, to keep from forming subconscious barriers to experience later on.

The earliest education will be the deepest, and can sometimes become impossible for even the consciously formed ego to later break down. A painful experience might be seen as a "wonderous learning opportunity" by a mind later, but that won't get past the instinctual reaction of the body to never do it again. That is too bad if it was a result which is not inevitable, a fluke, and doing that act again COULD be quite beneficial if done again later.
I don't know if I am expressing myself clealy, might need to work on clarifying that.

To use your example, it is possible that Siddhartha was able to embrace suffering and not run from it because his earliest conditioning taught him that "life is good". It was so deep that even suffering could not undo that behavior to embrace.

You can have the same thing happen with a person who started with early life of only suffering- they cannot embrace life anymore, even when it is very very pleasurable.




I don’t think ideas are bad—I love ideas; they are completely innocent given that they do not possess volition. Only the way we utilize them, and the way we give them precedence over the very beings that create them is what bothers me. By refuting these ideas and what I call “common spiritualities”, I only aim to show that one individual can transcend all ideas, destroy them and create them, and in turn, become more spiritual, rather than locked within an armor of compromise, structure and routine, because in all cases of ideology, society, institutional cultures, it was always one individual who created them. At some point, we must step out of the armor, and be vulnerable and innocent again. We can transcend our context; we can change it and influence our surroundings, rather than hide from it. Each individual is infinitely more powerful, larger, and concrete in comparison to any idea ever had. In this vein, it is never an idea as such that entraps an individual, but it is the individual himself that does so.



Okay, I understand your view a bit better and appreciate the further explanation. I would like to think it is possible to let go of all the ideas and beliefs we have . I think in many ways, I am constantly doing that, I am in constant travel, mentally. I used to finish every post with "this is what I think/feel right now, it may change at any moment." But just figured that should go without saying.

But no matter the ideas and mental forms i have at any moment, the underlying patterns of behavior remain, regardless. This is where my mind finds it's limit of influence. There is deep, wordless, thoughtless, conditioning of body. I can ignore them, I can repress them, my mind can detach from the entirely and acknowledge the schisms between itself and the body. But they remain, regardless.

In animal training, we consider the first stages of early training the most essential- after a certain point, you cannot change what has been done- the base is set. I think the same is true for humans. That early base is sometimes more restrictive then it will need to be later- in some cases, the whole point is just to teach the being how to overcome certain reflexes, then later, use them as consciously chosen . So there is a point they must break out of the original programming somewhat. But there will still be a trace of it, forever in that body.

This is what I speak of when I say, an early education that teaches a child to feel confident that "no matter what happens, it will be okay- somewhere, somehow, down the road, even if you don't quite see how that is yet" can be a life encouraging behavior base later. Even when they have rejected the reasoning that there's a God-man controlling all that for specific egotistical reasons (or whatever other belief system was used to instill that feeling.
edit on 22-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: Baddogma


I don't consider it thread drift because it's all tied together, in the sense of spiritual squandering by not seeking higher spirituality (ignornace is bliss/rejecting religious beliefs), or spiritual squandering seeking higher spirituality (a state of pure awareness and love in body/mind/soul/spirit; accepting a religious belief) and not finding it (spiritual wandering), or finding that imagined state of nirvana (release from the state of suffering) but isn't that also spiritual squandering by not experiencing the bad (as you mentioned) with the good? We also must look at the individual person making their own life's choices, as some are life-long learners and explorers, while others are content and happy with a simple path in life.

I don't consider my previous religious experiences as a squandering because as a life-long learner it gave me yet another philosophical/religious/spiritual path to explore, which I have free choice to either embrace or reject, or a mixture of each. I took away with me some of Jesus' philosophy and I am open to learning of others' philosophies and religions without prejudice.

Then I ask myself does the OP consider the many religious practices and philosophies to be a form of spirituality? From some questionable hateful and violent actions of religious people, it appears to me they are the prime examples of spiritual squandering, as they choose, or are made to conform, to be ignorant in their perceived blissful state of blind faith and without any understanding of charity, mercy and love.



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 08:42 PM
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As long as beings continue placing spirituality outside of themselves they will never know their true inheritance. Contemplate this; how can one learn the truth of their inner being by externalizing it? It is impossible to understand how a car functions by staring at it's outward appearance. One must look under the hood to understand the intricate assembly of parts that create the body of the vehicle.

You are God, each and every one of you. The grass you step on is God, the food you eat is God, the spider you squashed is God, the air you breath is God, Oprah Winfrey is God, Charles Manson is God, the moon is God, the sun is God, all perceivable and unperceivable is God. Curse your neighbor and you are cursing God, curse your self and you are cursing God. You may not know this now but if the appropriate effort is exerted internally through self-retrospection and meditation there will be no stopping you from truly comprehending this and freeing your self from any future lives, any future suffering.

Question yourself, survey yourself, deny your own ignorance and reject all that hinders self-understanding. My blessings are with all who seek their True Nature, I personally am with you at all times assisting you in understanding this and you will know this as truth if you merely just seek inwardly. Truly I tell you if you know your Self you will know me and every self-realized being that has ever existed, in this plane and every other.
edit on 25-6-2014 by EviLCHiMP because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: EviLCHiMP




As long as beings continue placing spirituality outside of themselves they will never know their true inheritance. Contemplate this; how can one learn the truth of their inner being by externalizing it? It is impossible to understand how a car functions by staring at it's outward appearance. One must look under the hood to understand the intricate assembly of parts that create the body of the vehicle.

You are God, each and every one of you. The grass you step on is God, the food you eat is God, the spider you squashed is God, the air you breath is God, Oprah Winfrey is God, Charles Manson is God, the moon is God, the sun is God, all perceivable and unperceivable is God. Curse your neighbor and you are cursing God, curse your self and you are cursing God. You may not know this now but if the appropriate effort is exerted internally through self-retrospection and meditation there will be no stopping you from truly comprehending this and freeing your self from any future lives, any future suffering.

Question yourself, survey yourself, deny your own ignorance and reject all that hinders self-understanding. My blessings are with all who seek their True Nature, I personally am with you at all times assisting you in understanding this and you will know this as truth if you merely just seek inwardly. Truly I tell you if you know your Self you will know me and every self-realized being that has ever existed, in this plane and every other.


Why not inside and out? No. The appropriate effort must be exerted all directions, not just inwardly. You are freeing nothing otherwise.





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