Very weird theory that I found on the Internet

I only mentiomed it being an Australian t
t,v, show, as it seemed to.come directly on the heels of the New Zealand has moved theory. Could be a little something to it? When things go wrong, as things might do, the Barenstain Bears will find a way through. a reply to: raymundoko

a reply to: raymundoko

You know if you have a wife. You know the sky is blue. You know if you enjoyed reading "Heavy Metal" magazine as a teenager. If you discovered that it was now "Heavy Mettle" magazine, you'd know it was wrong.

We've all had the "I could have sworn..." moments. I addressed that previously.

originally posted by: recycled
I'll start by saying I have not read all the comments, as this thread is long. I'll finish by saying The Berenstein Bears is an Australian t.v. show.

Not anymore. Now it's the "Berenstain Bears."

Logical fallacy. I can look and see I have a wife as well as look at physical proof I married her. I can look at the sky to see it is blue. These things aren't related to memory but to an every day affirmation.

For me to deny either of those would be delusional, much like those who think timelines are shifting to explain bad memory.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

a reply to: raymundoko

LOL You are not listening. Please listen very carefully. You could be locked inside a cage (for some reason) and cannot see the sky. It doesn't matter, because you know it's blue lol My point was that there are degrees of memory. There are vague memories, more certain memories, strong memories and vivid memories. What I am calling a 'knowing' (or 'knowing memory') is a memory which you know to be the case, beyond any doubt.

You do not need to look to your wife and realize you still have one lol So come on, let's be real here. You know without looking (it is a 'knowing memory.') There are things you would swear to in a court of law, hand to God, because you feel is strongly in your heart and mind beyond any doubt whatsoever. Someone can argue that you are wrong and you can listen, but you do so with a smile, because you know.

Do you get where I am coming from here yet? You cannot convince someone that they are wrong about something they know. There have been Nazi psychiatrists and other deceivers who've been able to convince people that the sky is red, that yesterday never happened or that clocks go to 13 hrs, not 12. I am not one of those people. I know what I know. If I am pretty sure, but not certain, I will admit that. I am talking about what we call 'knowings,' not 'vague recollections,' or even fair recollections.

Some more disturbing Mandela Effect changes:

The Walt Disney classic animated "Snow White" film has an unforgettable line which been quoted, and referenced, countless times: "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?" Suffice to say, this has been erased from history. It is now: "Magic Mirror on the wall, who is the fairnest one of all?"

Fred Rogers’ song, “Won’t You Be My Neighbor," has a famous line: “It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood.” Now: “It’s a beautiful day in this neighborhood."

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

I am being real here. The sad part is you don't see the distinction and how you commonly use logical fallacies to support your argument.

You don't KNOW the books were Berenstein. You THINK they were because that's what you remember.

You just stack logical fallacy on logical fallacy, so NO, I DON'T get where you are coming from because I don't invest in delusions.

Earlier in this thread I used the example of my childhood tree house as a kid. I KNEW it. I could describe it perfectly. I played in it every day for a decade. Guess what, the pictures don't match my memory...AT ALL. But I KNEW it. I just KNEW it. Well, I was wrong.

edit:

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

More movie and TV shows to back your delusions? I also used to think it was Mirror Mirror, but when I watched it as an adult with kids I realized I was wrong. I watched it dozens of times as a kid myself. I remember Mr. Rogers correctly though.

a reply to: raymundoko

You were not listening to me. I stated above that I have no desire to debate this issue. You are right: it has always been spelled the way you remember and there is plenty of documentation to support your side of it. You win any attempt at a debate, hands down. Congrats.

Just ignore us crazy people while we talk about about our false memories.

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
Some more disturbing Mandela Effect changes:

The Walt Disney classic animated "Snow White" film has an unforgettable line which been quoted, and referenced, countless times: "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?" Suffice to say, this has been erased from history. It is now: "Magic Mirror on the wall, who is the fairnest one of all?"

Fred Rogers’ song, “Won’t You Be My Neighbor," has a famous line: “It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood.” Now: “It’s a beautiful day in this neighborhood."

What? Oh man, we're in the wrong time line or something!

So why don't you put more effort into studying how false memories form? This thread has plenty of links to the pertinent scientific information.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

a reply to: raymundoko

I would just ignore this but then you would point out that I ignored this as if I'm ignoring your points. I've heard them. You still aren't getting what we are saying. It is a vivid memory, of which I have no doubt. I don't need to look outside to know the sky is blue, or look for my cat to know I have one. Some things you just know. I am not weak-minded enough to be convinced that something I know to be true isn't true. If I was alone in this, I might have considered I was going crazy. But fortunately, I am not alone, as many other people vividly remember this as well. There is no false memory here.

And again, I cannot debate that any reality shift took place. I have no evidence. We (those of us who know how it was) are trying to figure this out ourselves. Most likely we never will.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

We (those of us who know how it was) are trying to figure this out ourselves. Most likely we never will.

Understanding that memory can be a funny thing would be a good place to start.
But then, it does mean admitting you're wrong.

You don't see your flawed logic in the analogies you choose? Memories which receive daily affirmation are not even close to being related to memories, vivid or not, from your childhood.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

a reply to: Phage

I am not wrong with what I remember. There is no doubt whatsoever. I really don't understand why this troubles you so much. I don't know you, Phage, but I'm trying to get where you're coming from. You know that we have vivid memories and feel absolutely certain about it, yet you keep asserting we are wrong. To what end? I've seen you around enough to know that you are not a troll and can write intelligent posts and good arguments, but on this issue you have me at a loss.

It's understandable that to people who remember "-stain" or otherwise believe it always must have been "-stain" would think we're just being stubborn or self-important on the topic, but that is not it. Of all things to pick, why alternate memories that can be easily disproved (in this current reality?) As a debate topic it falls short; there can be no debate, as I previously stated. So it comes down to people saying, "Our memories are true," and others repeating, "No, they're not."

Noticing that this topic is under "Skunk Works," I read the descriptions for this forum and came across some guidelines:

As mentioned, this forum is for your most outlandish and extreme speculative conspiracy theory ideas. The intent is for like-minded members to engage in collaborative discussions about these theories in an environment that embraces and encourages extreme thought...We certainly do not want to discourage the involvement of helpful critical analysis and skeptical thought, this will always be a very important part of collaboration on ATS. However, we will be strict in managing the tone and style of such exchanges.

I'm not saying you've crossed the line, only that you are basically asserting us to be wrong about what we remember when you have no way of proving this. It is not a debatable subject. This is solely about (very vivid) memories that some of us share on the same issues which contradict current reality.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2
Must be false memories implanted by hypnosis!!

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

I am not wrong with what I remember. There is no doubt whatsoever. I really don't understand why this troubles you so much.

I have no doubt you remember things the way you do, that does not mean your memories are accurate. I "remember" being in situations that I know I was not present at but I've heard the family stories so many times that I do "remember" being there. I wasn't.

It doesn't trouble me but it does puzzle me. It puzzles me why you and others cling to such an inconsequential thing so strongly. Who the hell cares? Why?

I'm not saying you've crossed the line, only that you are basically asserting us to be wrong about what we remember when you have no way of proving this.

I am suggesting that your memories may not be accurate and seeing as how there are others who remember it quite differently. It does puzzle me how you can be so adamant in your refusal to consider that your memories may not be accurate. I wonder why you are so vested in not considering the probability of this being the case.

a reply to: Phage

It doesn't trouble me but it does puzzle me. It puzzles me why you and others cling to such an inconsequential thing so strongly. Who the hell cares? Why?

I felt it was self-explanatory, but perhaps not to all perspectives. It was bizarre to discover something that I not only remembered vividly but was a part of my childhood. I was not only shocked and confused, but annoyed. In my first post I believe I said I wasn't sure to be angry or sad. In a way, it's like how Lucas changed the "Star Wars" films I loved as a child. That really bothered me. Lucas and Spielberg were once involved in fighting to protect original film versions, as classic B&W films were being 'colorized' and this upset fans of art, some of which probably inspired them to become filmmakers themselves. I'm not sure if the "Berenstein Bears" had a role in my becoming a writer, but they were a touching part of my childhood, which I would certainly share with my own kids if I ever had any.

And of course, it's bizarre. I see it, others do, but others don't, and the current reality supports the change. The other changes are disturbing as well. It shows that reality isn't as stable as I liked to think. It was quite a shock, and now I'm looking for explanations, or at least seeing others who are in the same boat. It's like a question without an answer, and I can't just say, "Ah, whatever," and forget about it. I have a curious nature and I am drawn to it. I will not agree to being wrong when I know I'm right (about my memories,) on general principal, and I'm just too passionate about the truth.

I am suggesting that your memories may not be accurate and seeing as how there are others who remember it quite differently. It does puzzle me how you can be so adamant in your refusal to consider that your memories may not be accurate. I wonder why you are so vested in not considering the probability of this being the case.

When you learn that what you vividly remember no longer jives with everyone, and more than that, documented facts, of course this shakes you and you question yourself on some level. Part of me almost considered I'd gone crazy, but that didn't go far because I knew people who remembered it the way I did. I asked a cab driver what he remembered and he said: "-stein." When asked how sure he was, he said, "Pretty sure." When I told him it was now "-stain" and always was, he said he must have gotten it wrong (and the mind can play tricks, you know about that.) When I asked my sister about the famous "mirror" song, she remembered it the same as me, and when asked how sure, she said very sure and had a storybook version of it at home with that spelling. She laughed at the idea that I was saying it was different. When I showed her the vid with the different wording she replied that they must have changed it. When I explained the Internet shows it's always been spelled this way, she waited a moment (evidently reevaluating her position on the subject) and responded casually that she must have gotten it wrong.

Of course such a reply makes you question if you are being stubborn, holding to a memory because, for whatever reason, you refuse to be wrong about it. But I am very honest with myself and I still knew that the spelling had changed. It seems that many people are easily convinced that their memories are flawed; it would seem a logical deduction and I cannot disagree with it. But for some of us, we simply remember too clearly to just push it aside. In all honesty, it would be lying to myself, which I will not do.

I've always stood up for what I believed in and knew to be true. Usually I can make a strong case with evidence, good points, and I suppose I love a good debate. But this topic has no chance at a debate. I guess it's like discussing a ghost you saw with others who saw it, in front of people who never saw it and think we're crazy or deluded. This is different though, because it is more bizarre (everyone's heard of ghosts, but a shift in reality which changes the wordings of things and positions of physical locations? That's new to the public (myself included.) There are witnesses, but their testimony is easily disproved by the facts. This however does not dissuade me from speaking the truth. I will not lie to myself and pretend it doesn't matter to me when it does. I also really enjoy hearing others speak on it, to know I'm not alone in this.

I can tell you, never would I have imagined having this conversation!

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

When you learn that what you vividly remember no longer jives with everyone, and more than that, documented facts, of course this shakes you and you question yourself on some level.

And that's a bad thing?

But this topic has no chance at a debate. I guess it's like discussing a ghost you saw with others who saw it, in front of people who never saw it and think we're crazy or deluded.

False dichotomy, or the wrong audience.

a reply to: Phage

I think it's a good thing to question yourself; keeps yourself honest.

This is not a debate because it cannot be debated. I thought you were interested in hearing where I was coming from? I put a lot of thought and care into what I wrote above. Your replies only seem indicative of debate attempts, except for above where you said you didn't understand where I was coming from. I felt I explained it pretty well.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

I will not agree to being wrong when I know I'm right (about my memories,) on general principal, and I'm just too passionate about the truth.

Says the one trying to corroborate the "Great Salt Lakes" BS. Now that is a bit ironic.