Why does this topic never comes up when comes to guns?

originally posted by: riffraff

Onslaught, I've read many,many of your threads and replies and I've NEVER once heard you make a peep about Eric Holder and fast and furious. If the attorney general can sell guns to the most violent and lawless Mexican gangs, why do you protest licensed dealers selling to law abiding citizens?

Because I don't care. I also never protested anything in this thread concerning licensed dealer selling to law abiding citizens.

Do you guys just make this crap up in your head or do you just show up with a predetermined replies from some kind of book...

I asked some questions..I think one person answered them .and the others tried derailing the thread or made up things I said or did. Like you.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Are people really OK with these numbers? (billions of dollars being payed out for gun injuries)

Not anymore than I am with any number of reasons I have to pay more for health insurance or care for things I don't participate in. I don't shoot people. I don't drink soda. I don't eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. I don't hit people with my car. I don't sit in front of the t.v. eating Doritos. I don't smoke. I don't drink alcohol. I don't use drugs. I don't have promiscuous unprotected sex. Yet, all of those things cause my rates for coverage and care to go up.

Why are you so intent on making health care costs and the lazy bastards that contribute to it a "gun issue"? Again, you intellectual dishonesty is clear to see.

Should gun manufacturers be held liable for these injuries? How about gun owners?

NO. And, I've answered that question . . . yet, you deemed it "off topic". Again, through logical fallacies. Should every home owner be "liable" for the "SlenderMan twins" in Wisconsin because they used kitchen knives to stab their friend 19 times? If not, why? That seems to be you logic on gun owners . . . so, why does it only apply to "guns"? More intellectual dishonesty.

Why should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?

The truth is NOBODY is paying out of their own pockets. How many times have you had to physically give any money to anybody for "gun violence"?

You are using hyperbole to try to make you argument seem logical. Healthcare costs may rise . . . but, they do for EVERY healthcare related issue. Why should I have to pay an increase for drug addicts or fat, lazy layabouts? Yet, that is the system . . . "guns" have nothing to do with the "covering of bills". Stop conflating two unrelated issues to carry on your crusade.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: riffraff

Do you have any instances of firearms manufactures selling to anyone but licensed distributors?

Do you have any instances of gun manufactures making sure these same licensed distributors are not doing anything illegal or making sure the right people get guns?

Gun manufactures don't regulate the industry . . . The ATF does. All distributors or dealers are audited by the ATF at least twice a year.

Why aren't you on a crusade against the actual government agency that regulates them? Does that not fit in your agenda?

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
a reply to: faust833

Again with the banning guns..where did I once say this. Where did I once mention limiting your 2nd amendment right.

By taxation and over regulation. The government can legislate them out of existence. Just look at the micro-stamping law and the unbearable cost associated with it. And that's child's play for now....

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Because I don't care. I also never protested anything in this thread concerning licensed dealer selling to law abiding citizens.

Well it isn't 'illegal' to shoot ones self.

Stupid as hell YES.

ILLEGAL no.

So they are still LAW abiding.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

*SIGH* I can be condescending as well and this will be my last reply to you.

You asked the following questions: Are people really OK with these numbers? Should gun manufacturers be held liable for these injuries? How about gun owners?

Why should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?

Your argument was predicated on the public health care costs to victims. There have been multiple posts showing you that:

A. Public Health costs for gun violence are far less when compared to other things that cause public health care costs. You see, when comparing the costs of Gun Violence and Alcohol, we have to be more concerned with the $223 Billion in Alcohol costs than the $56 Billion in Gun Violence. *SIGH*

B. Firearm manufacturers should be held as liable as other manufacturers. More people die and are hospitalized due to Obesity and yet Soft Drink Manufacturers are not being held liable.

C. People have been forced to pay for others health care (i.e. paying out of their pockets to cover these bills for others). Health care costs are higher due to the obesity in this country and that costs everyone, even those who eat healthy. Here's the thing with firearms...If I am convicted of wrongly shooting someone then I pay their medical expenses! If I was within my rights (self defense) then I don't have to pay their bills.

Again, the whole basis of your argument was in the "high cost" and yet you've been shown that those costs are small when compared to other things.
*SIGH*

originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: Onslaught2996

Are people really OK with these numbers? (billions of dollars being payed out for gun injuries)

Not anymore than I am with any number of reasons I have to pay more for health insurance or care for things I don't participate in. I don't shoot people. I don't drink soda. I don't eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. I don't hit people with my car. I don't sit in front of the t.v. eating Doritos. I don't smoke. I don't drink alcohol. I don't use drugs. I don't have promicuuos unproteced sex. Yet, all of those things cause my rates for coverage and care to go up.

Why are you so intent on making health care costs and the lazy bastards that contribute to it a "gun issue"? Again, you intellectual dishonesty is clear to see.

Should gun manufacturers be held liable for these injuries? How about gun owners?

NO. And, I've answered that question . . . yet, you deemed it "off topic". Again, through logical fallacies. Should every home owner be "liable" for the "SlenderMan twins" in Wisconsin because they used kitchen knives to stab their friend 19 times? If not, why? That seems to be you logic on gun owners . . . so, why does it only apply to "guns"? More intellectual dishonesty.

Why should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?

The truth is NOBODY is paying out of their own pockets. How many times have you had to physically give any money to anybody for "gun violence"?

You are using hyperbole to try to make you argument seem logical. Healthcare costs may rise . . . but, they do for EVERY healthcare related issue. Why should I have to pay an increase for drug addicts or fat, lazy layabouts? Yet, that is the system . . . "guns" have nothing to do with the "covering of bills". Stop conflating two unrelated issues to carry on your crusade.

OK..no more to you..hate talking to faux intelligent people. You know the ones...use big words but no matter what they do ..wel you know.

How many times have you had to physically give any money to anybody for "gun violence"?

Although I am going to use this question for those same people who complain about footing the bill for others..ie..welfare.

Just change the gun violence thing out.

Every single day thousands of people are 'injured' by automobiles.

Hell lets sue the state, then sue the automaker, then sue the oil company. then sue the tire maker, and everyone else that made that 'accident' possible.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I'm sorry your arguments are illogical and have no basis in reality. Whether that be by actual looking at the data on the issue of gun crimes in America or applying your logic (or lack thereof) to the actual causation of healthcare costs . . .

Take you ball and go home . . . simply ignore those that won't fall for your biased take on unrelated issues . . . typical.

I'll leave you to your delusions then . . .

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I have just as much of a problem with lazy and deceitful welfare recipients as I do irresponsible gun owners. The problem therein lies personal responsibility; not the liability of those deceived.

originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I'm sorry your arguments are illogical and have no basis in reality. Whether that be by actual looking at the data on the issue of gun crimes in America or applying your logic (or lack thereof) to the actual causation of healthcare costs . . .

Take you ball and go home . . . simply ignore those that won't fall for your biased take on unrelated issues . . . typical.

I'll leave you to your delusions then . . .

It's hard to carry on a logical debate, when the OP is only going to continue...



It was an interesting thread when some statistics were presented on actual causation of rising health care costs. Guns is not one of them.

Des

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

Should non gun owners have to foot the bill? Should they have to pay part of the billions due to a tool they wanted nothing to with in the first place.

In one word YES!

It's called equality.

That is tantamount to me saying that illegal immigrants shouldn't receive any help once across the border. Of course you help your fellow human being (before you send them back across the border). But you don't restrict law abiding citizens in the process.

originally posted by: TiedDestructor
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I have just as much of a problem with lazy and deceitful welfare recipients as I do irresponsible gun owners. The problem therein lies personal responsibility; not the liability of those deceived.

personal responsibility...then why not complain about having to foot the bill for this..billions being payed by taxpayers for gun injuries done to others.

I mean you and the others will complain about welfare but not this. Why not? Not once have I ever seen a topic about this...ie: "I am outraged about having to pay for the irresponsibility of some gun owners"

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Then stop paying your taxes...problem solved....

Des

originally posted by: Destinyone

It was an interesting thread when some statistics were presented on actual causation of rising health care costs. Guns is not one of them.

Des

I created the thread for one reason..to see if there would be any outrage about this, like any other thread would have, if it was something like welfare or other health care costs.

There wasn't..in fact there was no outrage about having to foot the bill for others irresponsibilities. You people did not think anyone should be held responsible for gun injuries or the costs to taxpayers..it would seem..you and others are OK with paying for this..just not others.

You proved...your outrage is cherry picked.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TiedDestructor
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I have just as much of a problem with lazy and deceitful welfare recipients as I do irresponsible gun owners. The problem therein lies personal responsibility; not the liability of those deceived.

personal responsibility...then why not complain about having to foot the bill for this..billions being payed by taxpayers for gun injuries done to others.

I mean you and the others will complain about welfare but not this. Why not? Not once have I ever seen a topic about this...ie: "I am outraged about having to pay for the irresponsibility of some gun owners"

Because we don't think in a boxed in mind like yours.

We see the bigger picture. The upper echelon of things. Something you'll more than likely never open your eyes to. Cost vs Worth.

In your eyes there is no difference. If I were to be "outraged" by anything; it would be that perception.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I created the thread for one reason..to see if there would be any outrage about this,

Then you should be EQUALLY outraged about abortion then.

Since 'life' is so precious, and that costs ALOT of money.

From the OP source

89 percent of firearm injury patients treated in hospitals were male---and more than half (48 percent) were African American.
Over 60 percent of the injuries were caused by handgun “assault;”
22 percent of the injuries were listed as accidental;
8 percent were self-inflicted;
Almost 40 percent of patients were aged 20-30.

I think the stats above tell us what and where the problem lies.

Of the 22 percent listed as accidental, I wonder if that was simply cops missing their intended target. -snicker-

I wonder how many ATSers know somebody who has shot somebody else. Honestly.

Legal/non-criminal gun owners ... I bet it's very very few. I could name two people I've known in the last 50 years, and one of those was duty related and wouldn't count.

And as for who picks up the bill, neither of those two were passed along to the tax-payer.

I am a law abiding gun owner. Every gun owner I know is a law abiding citizen.
I have never cost the public one penny through careless use of my weapons, neither has anyone I know. You should direct your comment to the criminals who are shooting each other, then depend on the system to treat them afterwards.

Why should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?

For the same reason people who don't drive help pay for roads.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
Should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?

You can make pretty much the same argument for anything; alcohol, automobiles, various foods, etc.

Yes, that is why there are laws and regulations around all those other things.

So if you admit those cause similar problems as guns do...why not support regulations on guns?