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Why does this topic never comes up when comes to guns?

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posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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originally posted by: Feltrick
a reply to: Onslaught2996

When will breweries and distilleries be held liable for those killed by drunk drivers?

When will manufacturers of soft drinks be held liable for those who've died from diabetes and obesity?

Those two are costing this country more than gun violence!

Why should I have to pay the health care costs of someone who had a heart attack because they ate too much fast food?



Last reply to you.

OK...when the thread is about those things then I will bring them up.

and yet again *SIGH*


edit on 19-6-2014 by Onslaught2996 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

Sorry . . . but, you are now on to another logical fallacy, which is "begging the question". I gave specific examples to show why your "reasoning" about gun manufacturers is unsound. Illogical. So, it was on topic to your argument.

As far as your last post about "footing the bill" . . . the same can be said for diabetes or issues regarding obesity. The public isn't "footing the bill", simply due to the fact that these are "gun" related injuries. The public is "footing the bill" due to the fact that people don't have the money to pay for their care, just like every other health care issue.

You are conflating issues to fit your illogical conclusions, while ignoring the facts that directly dispel "gun violence" being any more of an issue than it has been for decades (in fact, it's at an all time low), i.e. "special pleading".

So, is the issue "healthcare costs" and those that don't pay their bill . . . or is the issue "gun violence". What is your real beef? Again . . . why the intellectual dishonesty and intentional conflation of two unrelated issues? Are you being intentionally obtuse . . . or do you not understand your arguments are illogical and based on media/gov propaganda?


edit on 6/19/14 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

He was trying to make a point. I'm a gun advocate so far as it makes sense.

Personally, I don't even own a gun. If you read my last post, then like I said....

There is not much you are going to be able to do about guns. Sorry.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996


I asked should someone be held responsible for these costs? Is it it OK for all taxpayers to foot the bill...or only those want guns?


Many criminal convictions include restitution for medical costs.

And many gun accidents lead into lawsuits that win medical payment awards.

Maybe that is the offset to your dilemma?






posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: solomons path

The real issue is we should not be allowed to own guns.

Only the cops, and the government has that 'right'.

Which is the epitome of a police state.


edit on 19-6-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Onslaught2996


I asked should someone be held responsible for these costs? Is it it OK for all taxpayers to foot the bill...or only those want guns?


Many criminal convictions include restitution for medical costs.

And many gun accidents lead into lawsuits that win medical payment awards.

Maybe that is the offset to your dilemma?



Then the 'shooter' goes to prison where they get 'free' healthcare for during their stay.

Years to life.

I wonder what costs more.
edit on 19-6-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: Destinyone

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I ask this honestly. Why should companies be held liable for the crap that the main stream public crams down their throat...or lungs...or what they put into their hands...or drive...or what have you.

The warnings are all there. Out in public for all to see.

Are we now supposed to protect the stupid at the competent's expense?


Exactly..why should non gun owners have to pay out of their own pockets for another's hospital costs caused by guns.

(yes neo...guns don't yadda yadda)

Should non gun owners have to foot the bill? Should they have to pay part of the billions due to a tool they wanted nothing to with in the first place.


If you feel that cheated. Buy yourself a gun. Then, you won't feel like we gun owners are somehow pulling something over on you....

But, make sure to go after the people who own cars, and those who make cars too. It appears you aren't happy unless you are complaining about someone taking some pennies out of your pocket.

Des


You and the other guy just aren't getting it. When the topic is about cars..etc...then bring it up.

Should someone foot the bill for gun violence other than taxpayers?

I really don't care either way.

Just showing the hypocrisy of some the posters like you...why complain about American taxpayer paying so much for this and that..yet have no issue for this?

Why is this topic never brought up as a complaint when it comes to how your tax dollars are being spent?



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: neo96


Then the 'shooter' goes to prison where they get 'free' healthcare for during their stay.

Years to life.

I wonder what costs more.


Good Point.






edit on Jun-19-2014 by xuenchen because:




posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: beezzer


So this "freedom" is costing money.

So we should curtail this freedom because it costs a certain amount?

If it is cheaper than a predetermined amount, then would we be allowed to keep this freedom?



I never once said anything about you losing or limiting your 2nd amendment right. It is you and others who have brought that topic up...go back and read everything..not once did I say ban guns..limit guns..etc.

I asked should someone be held responsible for these costs? Is it it OK for all taxpayers to foot the bill...or only those want guns?

My point was this...why are the same people arguing for guns..not outraged that they are footing the bill for others stupidity? Yet would fight tooth and nail against paying for other things.


Because we have more important and costly things to be pissed about.

Especially when the industry in question provides a guarantee to supply the arms, that we may well one day have to use, to ensure that those who hold power in office are held responsible for their actions; or lack thereof.

What scares me the most is very cheap yet very dangerous. An ink pen. Signing our freedoms away one bill at a time.

That cost is a hell of a lot more. I promise.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: neo96

I get that . . . I was hoping the OP would have a moment of "clarity" and just state his real purpose, instead of trying to seem "outraged" at the costs associated with gun related healthcare. Nor, is he really interested in examining the causation for "gun violence" and any subsequent costs associated.

It's clear, by his engaging in "begging the question" he has no real concerns about the public's "cost in healthcare" and is only on the typical anti-gun crusade.


edit on 6/19/14 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: Onslaught2996

OK. Ill stay on topic. There is violence period. People kill people. Singling out "guns" addresses it as though something "special" and "unique"...when it is not. Just one of many means leading to violence. Hammers, cars, trucks, baseball bats, axes, crowbars, bows and arrows, bombs etc..

People are responsible for their own actions, no matter what they use. Its sure not just a gun-issue. Yes, medical costs for violence are extreme and high. I think you should have said it like that.

And no. The owners, carriers or manufactures should hold zero responsibility in the overall violence in the world. People kill people....so stop all the violence. Ban everything.

MS
Licensed, daily carrier
9mm-45 A.C.P.
(and sometimes, I carry BOTH at the same time)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: Destinyone

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I ask this honestly. Why should companies be held liable for the crap that the main stream public crams down their throat...or lungs...or what they put into their hands...or drive...or what have you.

The warnings are all there. Out in public for all to see.

Are we now supposed to protect the stupid at the competent's expense?


Exactly..why should non gun owners have to pay out of their own pockets for another's hospital costs caused by guns.

(yes neo...guns don't yadda yadda)

Should non gun owners have to foot the bill? Should they have to pay part of the billions due to a tool they wanted nothing to with in the first place.


If you feel that cheated. Buy yourself a gun. Then, you won't feel like we gun owners are somehow pulling something over on you....

But, make sure to go after the people who own cars, and those who make cars too. It appears you aren't happy unless you are complaining about someone taking some pennies out of your pocket.

Des


You and the other guy just aren't getting it. When the topic is about cars..etc...then bring it up.

Should someone foot the bill for gun violence other than taxpayers?

I really don't care either way.

Just showing the hypocrisy of some the posters like you...why complain about American taxpayer paying so much for this and that..yet have no issue for this?

Why is this topic never brought up as a complaint when it comes to how your tax dollars are being spent?


So, it's "hypocrisy" for not blaming guns when people have substandard health insurance or don't pay their bill, passing those costs on to the public?

Again, it strikes at the point . . . What is your point? The messed up healthcare system or promoting the gov's agenda of painting every issue as "gun violence" being the cause? Even though, the FBI and CDC's own statistics show "gun related crimes" at an all time low.
edit on 6/19/14 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
Guns manufacturers should be held responsible because they are not doing anything about keeping guns away from the wrong people.


Do you have any instances of firearms manufactures selling to anyone but licensed distributors?

Hahahaha!
There you go, again. When will you learn? Using reality against someone who doesn't live in the real world never works.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: Onslaught2996

Sorry . . . but, you are now on to another logical fallacy, which is "begging the question". I gave specific examples to show why your "reasoning" about gun manufacturers is unsound. Illogical. So, it was on topic to your argument.

As far as your last post about "footing the bill" . . . the same can be said for diabetes or issues regarding obesity. The public isn't "footing the bill", simply due to the fact that these are "gun" related injuries. The public is "footing the bill" due to the fact that people don't have the money to pay for their care, just like every other health care issue.

You are conflating issues to fit your illogical conclusions, while ignoring the facts that directly dispel "gun violence" being any more of an issue than it has been for decades (in fact, it's at an all time low), i.e. "special pleading".

So, is the issue "healthcare costs" and those that don't pay their bill . . . or is the issue "gun violence". What is your real beef? Again . . . why the intellectual dishonesty and intentional conflation of two unrelated issues? Are you being intentionally obtuse . . . or do you not understand your arguments are illogical and based on media/gov propaganda?



A lot of big words and yet nothing to say.

I asked a few simple questions...they weren't that hard...I even made them simple.



Are people really OK with these numbers? (billions of dollars being payed out for gun injuries)
Should gun manufacturers be held liable for these injuries? How about gun owners?
Why should people who want nothing to do with guns be paying out of their own pockets to cover these bills for others?


There they are again.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: Destinyone

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I ask this honestly. Why should companies be held liable for the crap that the main stream public crams down their throat...or lungs...or what they put into their hands...or drive...or what have you.

The warnings are all there. Out in public for all to see.

Are we now supposed to protect the stupid at the competent's expense?


Exactly..why should non gun owners have to pay out of their own pockets for another's hospital costs caused by guns.

(yes neo...guns don't yadda yadda)

Should non gun owners have to foot the bill? Should they have to pay part of the billions due to a tool they wanted nothing to with in the first place.


If you feel that cheated. Buy yourself a gun. Then, you won't feel like we gun owners are somehow pulling something over on you....

But, make sure to go after the people who own cars, and those who make cars too. It appears you aren't happy unless you are complaining about someone taking some pennies out of your pocket.

Des


You and the other guy just aren't getting it. When the topic is about cars..etc...then bring it up.

Should someone foot the bill for gun violence other than taxpayers?

I really don't care either way.

Just showing the hypocrisy of some the posters like you...why complain about American taxpayer paying so much for this and that..yet have no issue for this?

Why is this topic never brought up as a complaint when it comes to how your tax dollars are being spent?


You want to sit here and talk about "Guns & Taxes?" Let me point something else out to you Onslaught.

Do you know what a ban on guns would lead to? A bigger black market in guns.

Which in turn would be more crime, more death (Probably by baseball bats and knives).

Which would probably over-ride the taxes that you're complaining about.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: neo96

I get that . . . I was hoping the OP would have a moment of "clarity" and just state his real purpose, instead of trying to seem "outraged" at the costs associated with gun related healthcare. Nor, is he really interested in examining the causation for "gun violence" and any subsequent costs associated.

It's clear, by his engaging in "begging the question" he has no real concerns about the public's "cost in healthcare" and is only on the typical anti-gun crusade.



You are correct about one thing..I don't care about the costs.

I wanted to see...if hypocrisy showed up again and it did.

Why do a lot of the same posters in here..cry about having to foot the bill for other things, yet they have not once brought this up as a reason to b*tch and moan.

Why?



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: faust833

Again with the banning guns..where did I once say this. Where did I once mention limiting your 2nd amendment right.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: faust833




Do you know what a ban on guns would lead to?


It would destroy a multibillion dollar industry, and put millions of people out of work.

Who ALL pay taxes.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
Guns manufacturers should be held responsible because they are not doing anything about keeping guns away from the wrong people.


Do you have any instances of firearms manufactures selling to anyone but licensed distributors?


Do you have any instances of gun manufactures making sure these same licensed distributors are not doing anything illegal or making sure the right people get guns?

Onslaught, I've read many,many of your threads and replies and I've NEVER once heard you make a peep about Eric Holder and fast and furious. If the attorney general can sell guns to the most violent and lawless Mexican gangs, why do you protest licensed dealers selling to law abiding citizens?



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: faust833

Along with making law abiding citizens as myself felons.

But what it will also do is increase prosecution rates of violators who will in turn be incarcerated at the cost of the US.

Your right. You'll create another criminal contingent with a network to support it. But that's not the topic...until it is right?

Nah.





edit on 6/19/2014 by TiedDestructor because: left out an article...of clothing





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