President Obama: Statement on Iraq - Live

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: olaru12

I did wander what exactly constitutes a military advisor....Special forces?

In Nam it meant expendables for an excuse to call for a full scale invasion and occupation.

olive-drab.com...

and along with the phony Gulf of Tonkin incident; we built ourselves a war.

www.history.com...

Here we go again....same as it ever was....

a reply to: zazzafrazz

What is crazy is the notion that somehow Sunnis and Shiites can cooperate and work together to govern Iraq.... It will always lead to conflicts that lead to violence.

It would be best to let them have their civil war. That is how these countries have determined their destiny in the past. Democracy doesn't and will not ever work well there.

At some point the side with the greatest numbers will defeat the other and rule over iraq... That is the only way it will end, otherwise you will have continued cycles of extreme violence and terrorism. Like what is happening there now.

No matter how hard they try, the western model of democracy and government will never work there...

The Iraqis will ultimately have to choose their destiny through bloodshed. Or they can continue to go through these hellish cycles until they do.

Our mistake was in creating the power void in Iraq in the first place, then helping the wrong people to fill that power void.

IMO

originally posted by: FlyersFan
We are sending 'advisors'??? WHY?? We've been advising them for a decade. Our advice .... get tough and earn your freedom. Stop running away and instead do your job and face the terrorists. That's free advice to the Iraqis ... no need to send 300 of our best from the 'Teams'.

Right..........its because of that big ass building, whats in there? I remember when they built that thing and im like "Where else in the world do we have an embassy that big" T

That place is built like the pentagon.......not like an embassy.....

Something is def going on........

They dont need "advisors" down there this whole thing is a puppet show

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: zazzafrazz


No matter how hard they try, the western model of democracy and government will never work there...

An understandable position, however, Turkey kinda blows that out of the water. They are very 'western' and interesting the last GREAT Caliphate.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Hey MBTM!

Anyone got pics of the embassy there? I've never thought to look at it .

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Turkey is an entirely different animal, although a great case to study what HAS and has not worked.

What is the predominant Islamic sect in Turkey?

How did they ultimately achieve dominance and peace?

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Presidents Statement made so far:
"Its not the place for the United States to choose Iraq's leaders"

.

The level of hypocrisy among american politicians is behind description. It is not the place for United State to chose Iraqi's leaders but it was United States place to kill Iraqi leader and invade Iraq and reduce that country to a pile of rubble. They pillaged that country's resources, made billions in contracts to rebuild (the irony is that they were the ones who destroyed) and now when Iraq needs more then ever a military presence to help them fight ISIS and not go back hundreds steps, now US is playing the good samaritan and the one who doesn't interfere in other countries internal affairs.

Where are now the american people who act like they are the pillars of democracy in the world? Where are they now that an entire country is being torn to pieces, the very same country they were so reluctant to democratize and so eager to send their military might to make that possible?

I have no word to describe the sadness and dislike I'm feeling now.

All hypocrites!!!

a reply to: ausername
Turkey is now backing the Kurds in Iraq.... all while they fight an ethnic Kurd insurgency in their own country.

Topsy turvy crap going on here.

Agreed. He was an hour late, for what?
To basically say nothing? (nothing we didn't already know, at least)

Also, I have a question.. What is the difference between ISIS and ISIL?
Obama keeps saying ISIL, so I'm even more confused.

the Jihadist group ISIS was focused on becoming imbedded in the land area of Syria+Iraq, by attracting maverick warriors who see AQ as mainly a puppet rebel group

the Jihadist Army ISIL has the purpose of creating a Caliphate(principally a Sunni following) with control over portions of the lands in Syria+Iraq+Iran+Turkey, Lebanon & possibly Jordan.... this Caliphate would align with the Arabia because they are the keepers of Mecca & Medina

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Turkey is an entirely different animal, although a great case to study what HAS and has not worked.

What is the predominant Islamic sect in Turkey?

How did they ultimately achieve dominance and peace?

I would disagree it is a entirely different kettle of fish, if you are basing your assumption that Islamic people cannot have a western democratic government, then Turkey you should read into

How did they achieve dominance and peace you asked? They were the Caliphate, that is as about as hardcore Islamic state as you get, they took it over from Egypt and ruled for 400 years and what changed it...War. World war one.
Also Attaturk was the leader in the 1920s was very anti fundamentalist and instituted a series of reforms, political, legal, cultural, social and economic that were designed to convert new post WW1 Turkey, formerly the Ottoman Caliphate into a secular, modern nation.

Perhaps explain how you think Turkey is different. I see an Islamic Caliphate that became a powerful democratic secular state with a majority muslim population.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: ausername
Turkey is now backing the Kurds in Iraq.... all while they fight an ethnic Kurd insurgency in their own country.

Topsy turvy crap going on here.

They are? Turkey I imagine would bomb Iraqui Kurds if a new indpendence gave Turkish Kurds another reason to revolt. Where did you see this? Id be interested to read further into it.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

We should be staying out of the civil war there, it is very sad but the US can't solve the problems of the global community.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Hey MBTM!

Anyone got pics of the embassy there? I've never thought to look at it .

I can probably come up with some if you like Zazz, long time no see by the way hope you are well, ill see what i can come up with





Top down

a reply to: zazzafrazz

It won't work in iraq, until a real leader emerges from war.

By the way, Sunnis are predominant in Turkey.

Something similar could happen in Iraq, if we would get the hell out of it all. Ultimately we are the destabilizing factor in Iraq, second to Iran's attempts to turn Iraq into a Shiite run proxy of iran.

Interesting conversation, zazz.

Gotta get back to work... Will check in later. You get the last words.

Good lord, I just read on businessinsider that the embassy compound is larger than Vatican City!

Look at this place!

They even get sushi!

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The embassy is supposedly as large as vatican city.........

Tell me why we need an embassy that big in Iraq? I find this highly odd, Its my belief that the rason Obama is sending those 200+ Marines and his 300 "advisors" is because of this building......

Something is up

a reply to: MystikMushroom

exactly I remember when this thing was being built and reading about the size of it, it just doesnt add up, i put some pictures up above.........just some generic ones......

It should make peoples ears perk up

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

woah, did they build that new? Or did they take over existing buildings. I ask as it looks palace like.
I imagine if you are the key force in a 10 year war that you will build a pretty imposing home base. Yeah, they will protect that.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

woah, did they build that new? Or did they take over existing buildings. I ask as it looks palace like.
I imagine if you are the key force in a 10 year war that you will build a pretty imposing home base. Yeah, they will protect that.

From what I remember they built that thing from the ground up.....I agree that they would build something well fortified.....but even for the area they are in, this seems to me to be a bit over kill.....

The thing is tho, its not a home base......its just the Embassy, im not trying to down play it, but its not like this place is central command there in Iraq....

Our bases that housed our military and equipment werent fortified as well as this thing is

Whats IN there......thats what I want to know

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: ausername
Turkey is now backing the Kurds in Iraq.... all while they fight an ethnic Kurd insurgency in their own country.

Topsy turvy crap going on here.

They are? Turkey I imagine would bomb Iraqui Kurds if a new indpendence gave Turkish Kurds another reason to revolt. Where did you see this? Id be interested to read further into it.

Huffington Post

In a statement that could have a dramatic impact on regional politics in the Middle East, a spokesman for Turkey's ruling party recently told a Kurdish media outlet that the Kurds in Iraq have the right to self-determination. The statement has been relatively overlooked so far, but could signal a shift in policy as Turkey has long been a principal opponent of Kurdish independence, which would mean a partitioning of Iraq. "The Kurds of Iraq can decide for themselves the name and type of the entity they are living in," Huseyin Celik, a spokesman for the Justice and Development Party, told the Kurdish online news outlet Rudaw last week.

See what I mean? Topsy-Turvy!