Iraq crisis: Isis jihadists 'seize Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons stockpile' - live

a reply to: ausername

Totally agree here, how arrogant are we to assume that we can improve a several hundred year ideological conflict. I was all for the war in Iraq, thinking that we could make a difference but in this case I think you are right we should just admit our mistakes and move on/out.

a reply to: neo96

Thats retarded the shelf life would have expired in the late 80s.

The people spinning this must be smoking WMDs...

I bet they are looking for a reason to arm them with new chemical weapons and are trying to use this old BS to explain where they got them from.


Also any remaining chemical weapons from Saddam were flown out of Iraq and into Turkey before the fall.

a reply to: crazyewok

Because we were already aware of this site, it had been bombed to hell during the first Gulf War and sealed by UN weapons inspectors. Hot Air Story

So that's why it didn't happen. Would be like announcing a search for the moon and declaring it's discovery. OK maybe that is a poor analogy... I suck at those...

a reply to: smitastrophe

I just peeked my own interest here. So I do think these CW were stockpiled from the first Gulf War and were destined to be destroyed in the 90's.... Why did that not happen??? I am trying to find some articles on this and am coming up a little short, anybody else remember this?

Christian Science Monitor (Yeah I know)

CNN Report from 2002

a reply to: pirhanna

Great #ing comments. While most of them are aimed towards the funnies, they all seem to have some sort of truth behind them.

? What stockpile. I was over there twice and we never found anything. This is false.

Wow

deja vue

12 years ago

anthrax loose in the us and weapons of mass distraction err destruction in Iraq

Today

anthrax loose in the us and weapons of mass distraction err destruction in Iraq


They must think we all have stupid written all over us.

Hey if your worried about stopping them from making a caliphate say so quit blowing smoke up my exhaust pipe !

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
Wow

deja vue

12 years ago

anthrax loose in the us and weapons of mass distraction err destruction in Iraq

Today

anthrax loose in the us and weapons of mass distraction err destruction in Iraq


They must think we all have stupid written all over us.

Hey if your worried about stopping them from making a caliphate say so quit blowing smoke up my exhaust pipe !

Well in all fairness its the UK upset not the US there worried dont think the US is however since we got are hands all in Syria. Lets face it the Iraqie government has been less than friendly towards the US in recent years. And China wont let anything hapen to them for that matter Russians are pledging support as well.

First Oil installations under attack now possible chemical weapons could been obtained , i find it hard to believe these weapons where never discovered/dismantled or removed from this location yet isis managed to find them.

i personally get a feeling all these fear mongering stories are just so that the public will scream for an intervention of some kind , these people are allowed to gain territory so the problem will get so out of hand a proper fix will be needed.

the UN should have helped Iraq when fallujah fell into the hands of Isis

en.wikipedia.org...

It is not logic to not do anything about it in a early phase , unless you want it to become big.

I personally have the oppinion that it will spin to some point that isis will gain a @%#$load of territory in both Syria and Iraq and the UN security counsel will vote for intervention and put the pressure on both China and Russia to comply since it is a Terrorist organisation with it's wings in 2 countries.

originally posted by: neo96

Wait ?

I thought it was 'proven' beyond a shadow of a doubt that Saddam didn't have 'wmds'.

Indeed, it was found that at the time of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraq had already stopped producing WMD's, and also destroyed all of its declared, existing weapons. Some undeclared chemical weapons were recovered, however.

Now ISIS suddenly does ?

They have likely had WMD's for a while now, if their involvement in Syria is anything to go by...

How can Iraq not have wmd then have WMD then in 2009 be 'required' to dispose of them?

Again, they had a limited stockpile:

Experts from the three nations failed to document any existent biological or nuclear weapons and discovered only a few random chemical weapons. The ISG concluded that contrary to what most of the world had believed, Iraq had abandoned attempts to produce WMDs. In his congressional testimony, the head of the ISG, Charles Duelfer, admitted, "We were almost all wrong" on Iraq.

www.factcheck.org...

But Bush lied!

You really should stop pushing that agenda. You have used it in previous threads, and it is only showing your Republican bias. That said, Bush did lie. He prematurely acted on inadequate intelligence and outright lied to the world in that there was proof that Iraq was producing WMD's, and was in possession of them:

Findings by the Iraq Survey Group:

But the finds were rare, and the ISG concluded that they were not part of a significant stockpile of weapons. Indeed, after nearly two years of investigation, the ISG concluded that:

"Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

"In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW [biological warfare] weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes."

www.factcheck.org...

And here are just some quotes from Bush himself:

This man is a man who said he was going to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. And for 11 long years, he has not fulfilled his promise.

By supporting terrorist groups, repressing its own people and pursuing weapons of mass destruction in defiance of a decade of U.N. resolutions, Saddam Hussein's regime has proven itself a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take."

There should be no doubt in anybody's mind this man [Hussein] is thumbing his nose at the world, that he has gassed his own people, that he is trouble in his neighborhood, that he desires weapons of mass destruction.

www.mtholyoke.edu...

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people.

The regime has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East. It has a deep hatred of America and our friends. And it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda.

www.theguardian.com...

While Saddam Hussein was guilty of some of the aforementioned actions, it is general knowledge that Iraq, under his rule, was not connected to terrorist groups, or sought WMD's.

originally posted by: smitastrophe
a reply to: smitastrophe

I just peeked my own interest here. So I do think these CW were stockpiled from the first Gulf War and were destined to be destroyed in the 90's.... Why did that not happen??? I am trying to find some articles on this and am coming up a little short, anybody else remember this?

Christian Science Monitor (Yeah I know)

CNN Report from 2002

Most of the WMD at the facility were destroyed but the damaged bunkers made destruction hazardous. That is why they were sealed in the 1990s by the UN teams. When the US forces Iraq Survey Group inspected the site in 2003 after the invasion they found that their assessment was hampered by looting and razing done by the iraqi's.

The reasons why some WMD were not destroyed was because the hazardous state of the bombed bunkers. They went the encapsulation method to seal them in with concrete. The Iraq Survey Group after the invasion made an assessment of the facility.

Exploitations of Al Muthanna
ISG conducted multiple exploitations of the Al Muthanna site to determine whether old chemical weapons, equipment, or toxic chemicals had been looted or tampered with since the last UN visit to the site. ISG is unable to unambiguously determine the complete fate of old munitions, materials, and chemicals produced and stored there.The matter is further complicated by the looting and razing done by the Iraqis.
An exploitation of the facility reconfirmed previous imagery analysis that the site remained inoperable from bombings and UNSCOM compliance, including destruction of equipment and resources, and no significant production capabilities existed. Facilities and bunkers revealed no evidence of production since UNSCOM departed.

The teams found no new structures or any construction activities except for those declared by Iraq to UNSCOM. The facilities appeared to be abandoned prior to OIF.
Several pieces of equipment that were once used for CW production were found bearing no UN tags, and the ISG was unable to assess whether the equipment had been reused since 1994 or intended for a future production processes and abandoned. The tag system used by the UN was known to not be robust, and given the absence of inspectors between 1998 and 2002, Iraq would have had little incentive to maintain the tags in good condition.
The extent of the looting and unaccounted for excavations of bombed facilities makes it impossible to determine what, if any, equipment was removed after 1994, either for legitimate industrial use or a renovated CW production process. ISG exploitations indicate that the storage area still remains a threat despite testing. Chemical storage containers filled with unknown hazardous chemicals are showing signs of rusting-through and leaking.
Key bunkers and facilities are currently scheduled to be sealed or resealed.

Stockpiles of chemical munitions are still stored there. The most dangerous ones have been declared to the UN and are sealed in bunkers. Although declared, the bunkers contents have yet to be confirmed. These areas of the compound pose a hazard to civilians and potential blackmarketers.

Numerous bunkers, including eleven cruciform shaped bunkers were exploited. Some of the bunkers were empty. Some of the bunkers contained large quantitiesof unfilled chemical munitions, conventional munitions, one-ton shipping containers, old disabled production equipment (presumed disabled under UNSCOM supervision), and other hazardous industrial chemicals. The bunkers were dual-use in storing both conventional and chemical munitions. Figure 12 is a typical side-view of a cruciform shaped bunker. The contents of two of the cruciform bunkers bombed during Desert Storm showed severe damage. Due to the hazards associated with this location, the UN decided to seal the bunkers. UNSCOM viewed the contents of the two bunkers; however an accurate inventory was not possible due to the hazards associated with that environment. UNSCOM relied upon Iraqi accountability of the bunkers’ contents and assessed the amount of munitions declared to be realistic. Military field testing equipment showed positive for possible CW agent in the cruciform bunkers that contained munitions and a storage bunker that contained bulk chemical storage containers. Note: this is not unusual given the munitions once stored there and the conditions in which they were stored post 1994.

More include images at following link.

Iraq Survey Group link

Iraq after signing the Chemical Weapons Treaty made plans to finally dispose of the chemical weapons remaining at the facility.

Link

After assessment they still found one bunker at the facility to be too hazardous so the method planned was to again use the concrete capping method.

Due to Iraq's unique circumstances, a final destruction deadline has not been set for the country. In February 2012, Iraq submitted to the OPCW a national paper detailing its approach towards the destruction of the contents in the Al Muthanna bunkers. In May 2012, Iraq amended its submission, noting that the remnants in Bunker 13 were especially hazardous and that the lowest risk course of action would be to irreversibly encapsulate in concrete the bunker contents.

Link

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: neo96

Thats retarded the shelf life would have expired in the late 80s.

The people spinning this must be smoking WMDs...

I bet they are looking for a reason to arm them with new chemical weapons and are trying to use this old BS to explain where they got them from.


Also any remaining chemical weapons from Saddam were flown out of Iraq and into Turkey before the fall.

Exactly you see through it.

Apply even a ounce of logic and this whole thing falls apart.

Paul Bremner sponsored by America ruined Iraq. He raped Iraq selling contracts which 100% profit out of Iraq...that is a fact, America invaded Iraq then used Iraq money to pay American contractor who didnt have to give anything back to Iraq.

You know that you Americans complain about #...well stay at home, destry your carriers, close all your bases overseas, and keep you stupid greedy face out of everyones business.

Its such a shame that you dont use your super power for good - because you abosuletly do not. As Spiderman said, with great power comes great responsibility. America is the most irresponsibile country in the world because they are greedy shamelss money grabbing selfish greedy ]b]SNIP!!!.

Tell me I am wrong and where...

I don't actually buy that this happened. I don't by the source, i don't buy the propaganda.

Saddam didn't have WMDS so I'm not buying the lie.

What, all that time we were there, no WMDS, but now? cmon!

I call bull snip.

originally posted by: smitastrophe
a reply to: crazyewok

Because we were already aware of this site, it had been bombed to hell during the first Gulf War and sealed by UN weapons inspectors. Hot Air Story

So that's why it didn't happen. Would be like announcing a search for the moon and declaring it's discovery. OK maybe that is a poor analogy... I suck at those...

Rubbish.

It would be like Invading the USA for WMD'd and refusing to search Los Alamos.

Plus the old WMD sealed up from the first gulf war will have degraded to the point of uselessness. Nerve gas has a very short shelf life and its precursors are pretty nasty corrosive stuff that if left leak out and corrode any artillery pieces. What your left with are not WMD but hazardous waste, that ok could be used as a weapon but certainly not one of mass destruction or a war winner, in fact the effort to use the waste would be pointless as they would be no more deadly than normal weapons.

The US is suddenly producing a lot of anthrax
www.huffingtonpost.com...
maybe a false flag chemical attack incoming

originally posted by: conar
The US is suddenly producing a lot of anthrax
www.huffingtonpost.com...
maybe a false flag chemical attack incoming

Just a stupid lab accident.

It quite common to grow anthrax. I used to do when I worked making diagnostic kits for a company. You have to grow the anthrax to make the kits. Just because they are growing it doesn't mean anything nefarious is afoot.

a reply to: neo96

More and more this stinks...The video's that have been show stink of Memri and more disturbing is the twisted ideology and the sales pitch these videos are purported to display.

This is yet another spin, create as much noise as possible and then wait a few weeks and let the story fizzle out as the next big event occurs in the media.

This in my opinion is just another war drum to condone the use of air strikes via drones and leave a door open to invade Iraq and seize the assets (oil etc) once the population has been beaten to submission and/or the sectarian-slash-Al-CIAda-slash-proxy-puppet-group fighting keeps everyone busy.

The likes of ISIS (if it was formed without any control or influence by certain alphabet groups or by chance) are funded and armed by the west, directly and indirectly and that's the problem:

Freedom Fighter, Rebel, or Resistance Fighter one day and armed militant the next...what's really embarrassing is the same people that are on the news condemning this group (and others like it) are the ones who originally were pushing their respective government and politicians to "help" the rebels against whoever the bad guy of the month was.

I don't think it's intentional so much as accidental and very likely incompetence from our (the west's) part...because the logistics of such a complex conflict are too much for anyone to understand or comprehend.

It is worrying regardless of the cause and what led us all to here...these groups are radicalised, experienced and armed and they have a twisted militaristic ideology that is neither religious or rebellious but something much more sinister...

It's about power folks...we the west did a great job showing these people that being greedy for power and exercising that power is the way forward so now it is being used against us. These people have power and the resources now and when you believe you have an advantage you will exploit it (chess moves after all).

I do not see any religious justification at all, these people and groups are murderous in nature and intent and have no basis in Islam or any other spiritual movement...if the reports of suicide bombings and civilian shootings are true (which I believe are very likely true).

a reply to: IamSirDrinksalot

Yep pretty much summed it up nicely

ISIS will be riding pink Unicorns into battle next