Violent and Legal: The Shocking Ways School Kids are Being Pinned Down, Isolated Against Their Will

I spent a good chunk of time working in a school with these particular students, and I will tell you first hand, sometimes isolation is VERY necessary. Sometimes its the only option.

The isolation room should be 100% safe, however.

a reply to: macman

Then perhaps you should re-read it again and compare the US educational system to those in other countries. If there is inefficiency, then we're just simply doing it wrong. There are countries that actually spend less than we do on children's education and have a much better educational system. Laying the total blame on unions or even the Department of Education is a big of a wrong move though.

Here's a brain burner for you to consider: A lot of talk goes on about how the Department of Education is the one to blame for what occurs within our schools. On the contrary, the Department of Education provides funding and mandates for all of the schools in this country but everything else is decided by local governance and the bulk of the spending is through the states. Some of those DoE mandates, such as No Child Left Behind, cost the states upwards of an additional $75 billion in implementing, the majority of which, iirc, did not get reimbursed.

There's all sorts of fingers in the educational pie because of these relationships and it should explain some of the more recent stories that we've seen on these forums like the story about the parent who got arrested for complaining about a book being part of his daughter's school curriculum. The book author lived in the state so no great surprise her questionable book was in the curriculum. That's how our educational system works.

Follow the money.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

Then perhaps you should re-read it again and compare the US educational system to those in other countries. If there is inefficiency, then we're just simply doing it wrong. There are countries that actually spend less than we do on children's education and have a much better educational system. Laying the total blame on unions or even the Department of Education is a big of a wrong move though.

Why is there need to compare to other countries. We are not other countries.
And yes, the Education system as a whole is doing it wrong.
Other countries don't do what we do, they don't have wait we have and so on.
And no, the Unions and the DoE is to blame.
Schools were designed to be operated at the local level.....not controlled from a centralized source.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
Here's a brain burner for you to consider: A lot of talk goes on about how the Department of Education is the one to blame for what occurs within our schools. On the contrary, the Department of Education provides funding and mandates for all of the schools in this country but everything else is decided by local governance and the bulk of the spending is through the states. Some of those DoE mandates, such as No Child Left Behind, cost the states upwards of an additional $75 billion in implementing, the majority of which, iirc, did not get reimbursed.

And the Federal Govt, which controls the DoE pushed for such programs.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
There's all sorts of fingers in the educational pie because of these relationships and it should explain some of the more recent stories that we've seen on these forums like the story about the parent who got arrested for complaining about a book being part of his daughter's school curriculum. The book author lived in the state so no great surprise her questionable book was in the curriculum. That's how our educational system works.

Follow the money.

So, since I should follow the money.....explain to me again why I shouldn't be home schooling my kids?

a reply to: macman

You really have to ask that question and not know the answer already yourself? Why does the greater efficacy of other countries' educational systems matter? We have globalized economy. If we're not the best of the best of the best, more jobs go out the door of our country and into other countries. We also lose out on technological superiority to boot in multiple markets. Back in 1957, our country panicked because the USSR was the first country to successfully launch the first satellite ever. The Soviet Union deliberately beat us in this to basically confront the going view of the USSR being backwards that the US had been pushing up until that point. By 1958, there was a such a panic at the fact that we were falling behind technologically that Congress passed the National Defense Education Act of 1958 in direct response to Sputnik. Would you like to fall behind Russia some more? How about China or North Korea? I don't know if you are aware of this but we're quasi friendly to downright not friendly with some other countries inhabiting this planet. I'd prefer staying on top for all the above reasons.

If you can successfully homeschool your kids so that they have a good sense of not just the US and the world, then more power to you. I'm not against home schooling. I'm against bad education. However, if you cannot even understand the concept of why we need to stay ahead of other nations in terms of education, then maybe you should think on that decision some more.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Thanks WhiteAlice, I wasn't trying to take this off topic because this trickle down to the public schools is just another symptom of how people are dehumanized. The police are essentially trained to view the public as a threat and any resistance is dealt with harshly. With resource officers in schools of which many recent events have shown mistreatment of children by these officers it is no wonder that schools are being trained in similar techniques.

I would consider the basket restraint to be akin to torture. It is almost like being raped when held there for up to hours sometimes while the people you might look up to or count on to be responsible and mature watch. The panic it induces when you can not move and struggle to breath will make you wish you were dead. I truly feel for these kids and am outraged to see it continuing and even worsening.

This Hard Copy piece shows the basket restraint/hold where they place your arms across your chest or behind your back while an adult lays or sits on top of you. Sometimes another person will cross your legs and sit or hold your ankles.




The following is basically the straight jacket 2.0 what a load of garbage.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

It's not a hard guess. Very fitting song.

Oh, there is a place for that sort, and it's that sort for whom I tend to have no sympathy. I should, I know, but it's HARD. I am just thankful that God is more forgiving than I. I couldn't do it as He does. Even this sort can be forgiven, though.

At this stage, the whole mess needs to be shut down. Schools can be run at local levels, without all the demands from the Feds, and all that added expense. That would mean parents would have a lot more say in exactly how things were done, too, which would be good for the most part. I know there are some good teachers; I know teachers. Some are family, some friends, but they are good people, who would never do what this sort does. One of those (not teaching now) would likely have done bodily harm to some other teacher that did what we hear in these stories.

I suspect that it's as much evil, and power-seeking sorts, looking for these positions, as it is any with mental issues. Same thing we can see in police departments, where some seek the job solely for the power it brings them. Not all cops are like that, of course, but many are. The way the schools are now, it seems like the same thing. Really, much like what was happening some years back int he mental health field. Power-mad, sadistic types "tending" mentally ill people in hospitals, and getting away with virtually anything. Now, since that's monitored more, those folks have moved into the school system.

My personal opinion is that firing them isn't enough. Jail won't work. Just shoot them, already. Those that prey on children are worse than a dangerous animal, and deserve less consideration. And, lest anyone thinks otherwise, I am a parent that believes in firm discipline. My kids behave. They even get a swat now and then, depending on the circumstances. This sort of crap, though, isn't discipline; it's abuse, state-sanctioned. I agree; the long term harm to the children is considerable. Perhaps more than we can measure, in some cases.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: WhiteAlice
And just another reason to home school your kids.

The Public School system is more worried about Union Rights and protests, than the actual education and safety of OUR children.

Oh, yeah! The more stories like this I read, and the more about other violence in the schools, and the various indoctrination, the happier I am we decided years ago to home school. Anyone comes to our school to cause trouble, they will be met with serious armed resistance! My kids can think for themselves, too. That alone is worth all the work and expense.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

And here is the problem.
School is not there to train Kids for jobs.

School is supposed to be where they go to learn and be taught critical thinking.

I could care less about a "global economy", as that is the exact crap that has us in the $h!tshow we have now.

You go be a globalist, world citizen. Tell me how that goes for you in say 10 years.

a reply to: NihilistSanta
Institutionalized violence against school children is really not a good trend at all and I agree that dehumanization seems to be an overall trend. I'd love to understand the source of that one but I see it throughout the population. In that regard, I see what is occurring in our schools as yet another symptom but the most repugnant I've seen yet. I think part of the drive for targeting children at this point has been the attitudes towards Millenials to be honest. One of the chief complaints that I see about this generation is that they were "too coddled and pampered" and that's made them "entitled". Obviously the legitimate response to correct that in the youngest generation is physical abuse and torture because finding a middle ground never works, right? /sarcasm

The basket restraint is really not a good restraint to use on a child. There are so many things that can go wrong and it can very easily interfere with a child's breathing. I find it very disturbing that most of the children that they referenced in the article are autistic. As an autistic myself, I'm not a huge fan of people touching me. If someone were to try to restrain me in such a manner, I'd probably totally flip out as a well-seasoned autistic adult. If I'd struggle with controlling my response, then how bad would it be for a child? Separation and isolation in an actual quiet (not terrifying or noisy) room would be a whole lot better and wouldn't scar the crap out of these children.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The problem with shutting the whole thing down that I see is that those monied interests who ARE waiting on the sidelines to fill in the gap could be even less controlled. There has been a long term push to privatize education in the US with probably the only somewhat acceptable one that I've seen is a voucher system. One of the things that we need to recall when discussing public education is the primary driving thought behind it was to assure that every child had an equal opportunity to flourish. Before the public school system was in place, not every child had the opportunity to go to school and learn and literacy was not very good. While I totally agree that the problems within our public school system are large, rampant and intolerable, I'd prefer not to return back to those days where education was only for those who could afford it. I'm not a fan of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Schools ARE run at the local level. How a school operates overall is dictated at the state and local levels--not the federal. The federal can put out an overall standard (ie common core) but the actual execution and majority of the decision making is being made by one's own neighbors. When I initially was looking at the Department of Education and public school system, I started out thinking just like you --that everything that went on within the schools across the US was dictated by the Department of Education. I was really shocked to find out that that was not the case. If you take a look at the map of the states in this article, you can see this as plainly evident as this institutionalized violence responses are not all across the US but are state-dependent. My state doesn't allow this stuff while others do. This isn't the Department of Education--this is your neighbors making these decisions should you be in a state that allows this stuff.

Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $1.15 trillion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2011-2012, a substantial majority will come from State, local, and private sources. This is especially true at the elementary and secondary level, where about 87.7 percent of the funds will come from non-Federal sources.

www2.ed.gov...

The thing that all of these articles have in common is that they never remark on the actual relationships and who has authority in public education. As you can see, moving control to the state and local level will not correct this as it is already controlled at the state and local level. It'd just be giving more power to the very people who dictated these policies in the first place.

a reply to: macman

I actually think that globalization is probably one of the worst things that happened to our country so you're barking up the wrong tree. However, what you and I think are irrelevant in this matter when those with the money and power want to make sure that the march of globalization carries on. My stance is to prepare my children for that march while still giving them my opinions on what I actually think of it and why.

I could also go on a list of of critiques about schools and their education. I could also talk about some of my own experiences within the school system as well as others in terms of child experimentation (see the gifted thread here). That said--those who agreed to allow those things into the schools were not the Department of Education but your state and local governments. My guess is that they allow it because they probably get money or equipment in exchange.

PS. To make it even more clear, my son was removed from his high school and put into college by my state because he was becoming a leader in the schools and it was causing them problems. He nearly caused a riot in a classroom via thought filled and logical debate when he felt a teacher was abusing his power over a fellow student and exerted some measure of control in the cafeteria. They wanted him OUT and I was more than happy to oblige since they were paying for his college tuition.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Well then, I stand corrected as to your stance on what was discussed.

I am happy to be shown I am incorrect.

As for your son.......me being a crap disturber myself, I gotta say that is awesome.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

This particular dehumanization is not unique. The Nazis began with the mentally handicapped and invalids first. In a future where people are going to be sold on depopulation and genetic manipulation there will be no room for people who will be deemed of an inferior stock. Kind of like the movie Gattaca if you have seen it once people can select "perfect" genes people born naturally or with ailments or handicaps will be looked at like freaks and unclean. This was seen in Brave New World as well.

I am an INTP so I cant seem to help myself when it comes to looking at things from a "big picture" point of view. Sorry if this is derailing. .

a reply to: WhiteAlice

At this stage, the whole system is broken, from the top down. Getting the feds out of the picture is a start. The federal government contributes nothing good at this point. "Standards" that are ridiculous, teach the children nothing, and cost a lot of money. Rules about lunches, so kids go hungry, but no rules about abusive behavior that many states allow (mine is one that doesn't), etc. Unions are another problem. A lack of good information about just how BAD the whole system is is a HUGE part of the issue. If all parents knew everything that goes on, the system would fail, because most would yank their kids out. There wouldn't be enough truant officers or whatever to address the issue.

I don't want to see no education, either. Nor do I want to see corrupt, abusive types moved from public to private schools. Vouchers COULD work, but only if for ALL alternative forms of schooling. Any private school, and home schooling as well. We push to afford the materials we use. It's worth the expense, but it would be nice to have the same money spent on public school kids available for mine! Computers for each, some nice lab equipment, scientific samples, etc.; I could use more than we have. I could do it for a lot less than is spent in tax dollars for the public school kids, per child, too. We pay teachers, but home schooling parents don't get paid. If a voucher system is fair, then the amount for each home schooled child goes to that family.

The way it is now isn't working, though. I do know teachers, and I know some do really well. A lot more don't, however. Just looking at how the average kid talks in a video about virtually anything is proof. Most I see can't even compose a sentence and use proper grammar. Younger, older; it doesn't matter. The average fast food worker can't count change without the register doing it for them, and even then, can't know, oftentimes, what coins add up to the amount due back. They know virtually nothing of even the most basic national history, and science? What they do in a lot of the schools, I don't know, but it isn't learning.

One thing that needs to change is the requirement for kids to be enrolled in school. Many states, you MUST have them enrolled. I have a friend that home schools now, who lives in a state where the state requires all sorts of things be included int he curriculum, that aren't even real education. Some is flat out indoctrination, and she can't even escape it at home. That has to stop. The government, local, state, or national, does NOT own our children, and we cannot allow them to continue to behave as though they do. The whole "police state" mentality being drilled into school kids is another reason I say drop the system at a national level. Kids are being conditioned to accept any treatment, to not think for themselves. That's national.

Something's got to give.

a reply to: macman

Awesome. The whole classroom uprising event was really very interesting. In the meeting, they practically acknowledged that the teacher involved was publicly humiliating a student in a manner that was out of bounds for being "okay". In that sense, my son was in the right to defend her and it was admirable even to the staff. The problem they had with it is what happened after--the mini-uprising because the teacher's authority was toppled so precipitously. They could not have that happen and, in a way, that makes sense as some measure of authority is needed in a school setting. I did observe that it would've been unlikely to have occurred if the teacher had minded themselves and questioned why they were having a meeting about my son when the teacher was clearly in error. It was all about how they could not have a student successfully question authority--even when the cause was legitimate. Tellingly, my son wasn't suspended or given detention for what occurred. Just the meeting and soon after, the college or magnet school offer after he created a false religion in the cafeteria and had the entire student body therin participating. Yeah, can't see at all why they wanted him out of high school but I'm not complaining. College was far better for him even at 15.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

while this may be "allowed" in Texas, it isn't something that is allowed locally.

The part of Texas I live in has a looong history of being unruly. Back as far as our early days in the 1870's, we had 3 Texas Ranger's stationed here, which was inordinate for a far flung frontier town. Before we had the roughnecks acting like morons, we had the cowpokes acting like morons. They work hard, and play harder.

It would be very, very dangerous for any school official to restrain a student. Instead, they just call the cops and let the legal system work it out (we have a "Teen Court" that handles most school related issues).

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Exactly or alternatively, overriding those costly mandates and supplanting them with legalese that actually protects students as any governmental oversight in any field should have base protections from abuse. Children have very few rights in this country and particularly within some school programs. When it allows kids to be exposed to what could be construed as abuse, then that creates an untenable situation of institutionalized maltreatment.

As far as the indoctrination goes, I'm not a fan of it either but it still occurs in just about every country. There is something to be said of putting one's own country in its best light to the youth in terms of national stability. However, when indoctrination goes to an extent where it promotes a false glamour or belief, it can have very serious consequences. Occupy would be a brilliant example of indoctrination over reality being taught within our schools.

Scores of youth went down to protest under the belief that their actions were protected by the First Amendment. In the schools, the Civil Rights Movement was discussed and any abuse that those protesters had experienced in the 60's was, if it was as I was taught, painted in a way as being the actions of a few bad people in those states. That was the classic example of protest and JFK's role in condemning any violence that had occurred was also taught. What they didn't teach were what occurred in the Free Speech Movement, the Poor People's Campaign, or pick any G event. It was "you have the right to protest" pure and simple with an implication of condemnation of past violence.

photos.oregonlive.com...

Here's a picture of a 15 year old boy, who under the blessing of his father went down to join in the protests. His father wanted to support his son's activism, seeing it as being a good thing to have within a citizen. Neither expected that the boy would be struck across the head with a baton. What I see in this boy's eyes are shock and I saw and heard expressions of horrified shock over and over again as I watched this movement. Pained and terrified cries of "why are you doing this?" Those kids honestly believed that they had the legal right to protest unmolested. When I talked to my mother about what I was seeing, she talked to me about the things that she had seen in the 60's and 70's as a college student. The violence was nothing new, not really. They just failed to teach reality in lieu of some fancy notion that a country's populace had the right to peaceably assemble to protest their grievances. Well, the wording in that is "Congress shall pass no law". It doesn't say anything about batons, tear gas, rubber bullets and more or that existing municipal laws could be used to arrest and this just isn't even remotely taught. Just images of MLK Jr. and the success of the Civil Rights Movement.

I'm teaching my kids that they do have the right to protest but that right is merely a protection against having a law being made to prohibit it. That if they chose to protest, then they should expect batons, rubber bullets, tear gas, and arrest and it better be worth it. Then again, I always have been one to prefer reality, even when brutal, over lies. In this case, the schools have been willfully teaching lies in the form of indoctrination. "Land of the Free" and all that.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

I see it as well. Eugenics 2.0. Take a look at that thread on the sterilization of female prisoners and it's rampant Us (the better) v. Them (the undesirables--and that word was actually used). It's there. I made a thread a while back discussing the very real subject of transhumanism and bioengineering as it has been proposed and debated amongst academics. The future is one where we will tweak the human genome or enhance the natural and you bet, those who aren't tweaked or enhanced could be viewed as being the freaks. It's amazing to look at threads discussing some new gadget that enhances brain function. Stronger, better, faster--that's what everyone sees. I'm an INTJ and in that light, I question the common sense of it. Playing god has unforeseen consequences in my mind. I worry about the future, too, and the fact that both my son and I would be considered "undesirables" as we are both autistic. I see a whole lot out there driving for a course to cure and eliminate our autism entirely when we wouldn't change ourselves in a heartbeat. I'd like to think that my fear is irrational but I have a hard time disproving it. Heck, even in video games, autism is used as an insult and slur that has wholly supplanted homosexual ones.

To say I worry about my son's future would be the grandest understatement of the year.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

You are absolutely correct. I cringe when I think of the trendy hipsters that will emerge when we start tinkering with DNA and implants and such on a mass scale. Already there are groups of garage based biopunks/hackers working on implantable computers and cybernetics and genetic manipulation. People have been primed to embrace this and unlike with the Nazis a working system of eugenics will be in place. It will be seen as an act of compassion to not allow children to be born with disease/illness/defective genes. Economic conditions will not make things any better either as people will be so resource poor in most areas that feeding people may become based on a need basis and will be dished out to those who can contribute the most. We have seen this played out in history before only this time the toys will be better and the people less prepared to resist the changes.

Incrementally we are marched to a slaughterhouse . We allow the dehumanization of others and it becomes common place. People in positions of authority are placed there to follow orders. A rational person would know that laying on a child as an adult in any position is going to cause pain and discomfort. We start with children, the elderly, and the disabled. It is common practice now to engage senile elderly people with violence. It is common practice now for police to kill those they have been called to help. Less lethal weapons have simply become lethal ones. This shows that the authorities have been groomed to be less analytical and more reactive. They have been trained to fear the public and that their actions are justified. They are absolved of responsibility by the complacency of the public and by their superiors. When you think about it this type of conditioning of authorities be they law enforcement or merely teachers and aids in public schools illustrates just how the moral erosion has progressed when there is no hesitation in harming the most vulnerable of our society.

Look at the way the young people present the "safety mat" in the youtube vid I posted. They truly believe that people are OK with isolation and confinement for long periods of time because they are so detached. Even when they place one of the girls in the mat it is not tightened and there is no resistance. This is the thought process of people now. They are naive enough to believe this is something for peoples welfare.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Sorry for the delay on replying. Been on a writing binge. 64 pages--go me!

I definitely see a sort of Eugenics 2.0 coming about eventually as well but I tend to think that society isn't all accepting of such things yet, chiefly due to religious beliefs and those are going to be hard pressed for any to try to extricate from a society. I take comfort in that.

The way that I see the rest, Garrett Hardin's lifeboat comes to mind. We're all living on a lifeboat and this one is running low on some resources amidst the specter of climate change and overpopulation. I see differing factions at work with neither being much better than the other. One faction is trying to tweak nature in order to assure that life goes on for as many as possible by playing god with unforeseen consequences. The other turns a blind eye and presume that they have a seat on the lifeboat. Both sides come off as rather mad men. And in the middle are the people as a whole and yes, one can see a loss of compassion that is nearly systemic and is disturbing. I think that a lot of people have that sense on some level that we are on a lifeboat and ergo, they are mimicking the attitudes presented to them time and time again within the media to be on the "ins" rather than the "outs". It's amazing what people will do and say when confronted with the possibility of excommunication from society.

One of the other things that I always try to keep in mind when reading some of the commentary on various things online is that there are also plenty of people at work typing up responses to various things in an effort to improve pr on whatever. There's sites online that pay writers to do just that--muddy the waters and god knows there are plenty of desperate and broke writers out there that are quite willing to do that to make a few dimes. I actually know one of those and I found her choice of vocation appalling. She writes about 30 different things a day ranging from as innocuous as a product description to a muddying as a well thought out comment somewhere.