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I disagree that finite came into existence or from nothing. From my highest understanding I am compelled to believer that 'a finite quantity of something' HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. In some way. And the 'changing' of the finite something, occurs infinitely, meaning changing = time, infinite changing = infinite time. Which also means there are potentially infinite quality. Quality for example being how from only 100 or so basic building block elements, can be made near infinite different life forms. The quantity of varity of original quantity is 100 or so, but than the quantity and patterns and arrangements and additions and subtractions and motions, and inherent physical qualities are much greater quantity that 100. Still finite though.
I think that alot of religious people probably dont actually believe in a cloud surfing bearded god cruising around in the heavens.
originally posted by: spy66
Our universe came into existence. It had at beginning.
Since all finites have a beginning they can not be infinite. Since finites are not infinite, finite will not change and expand indefinitely.
For a finite to be able to change indefinitely there must be a Source present that can make that prosess possible. Because a finite can not change unless there are at least two different forces present.
In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The best measurement of the age of the universe is 13.798±0.037 billion years ((13.798±0.037)×109 years or (4.354±0.012)×1017 seconds) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2] The uncertainty of 37 million years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by the Planck satellite, the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes.
Listen to what im saying because im right. There is only 1 finite. It has always existed and always will. You can say it exists in infinite empty space, im ok with that. The 1 finite transforms, changes. But its always the same amount of stuff. Its always the same finite quantity of stuff.
originally posted by: spy66
Assumption? But it is what science state.
The age of the universe.
In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The best measurement of the age of the universe is 13.798±0.037 billion years ((13.798±0.037)×109 years or (4.354±0.012)×1017 seconds) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2] The uncertainty of 37 million years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by the Planck satellite, the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes.
You are confused. You are refering to the stuff that makes up the singulaity, Our universe. The stuff that made up the singulaity will will not be added to. The stuff that made up the singularity will only change Properties as it expands.
This does not emply in any way that finite always existed.
What is ment by energy can not be created or destroyed is confusing for a lot of people. Energy can not be destroyed because there exists a infinite space that is infinite larger than the expanding finite singularity.
Energy can not be created but energy can change form. This is what you are thinking, right?
What type of energy would the a absolute empty infinite space have?
Just because the infnite is absolut empty of finite does not mean the infinite does not consist of energy. The absolute infinite would have a absolute neutral energy state. The most Power full energy state there is. Because no finite mass or energy can ever be absolut neutral in a finite state. All finite have a finite energy state. Because finite can not be absolute neutral as finite, therefor finite can not be infinite. It can never have always existed.
Finite was formed by the infinite. From a absolute neutral energy state into a finite energy state.
This means that the finite that was fomred. Was formed With a specific amount of compressed absolute neutral energy into a mass of finite energy. Will it always be so? No. The expansion takes care of that. The expansion will change all compressed finite Properties back to what it used to be: Absolute neutral "Inifinite".
I am not sure if the space, the black area between earth and the sun and the moon, is at basis an absolute nothing, or if it is as you say, a neutral energy manifold that exists infinitely in all directions.
originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: ImaFungi
You are accusing me of making stuff up and basing what science say as assumption. Jesse's, you imply that finite allways was and always is. On what facts do you base Your claim on that wont make Your claim an assumption?
Finite is not infinite in any way. Look it up. It clearly state that finite is the opposite of infinite. The opposit of infinite is that Finite can not have always existed.
originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: ImaFungi
I am not sure if the space, the black area between earth and the sun and the moon, is at basis an absolute nothing, or if it is as you say, a neutral energy manifold that exists infinitely in all directions.
This is not what i am saying. What you state abowe still exists within the singularity. I am no stating that the Space between Earth and the moon is absolute neutral.
When i mention the singularity i mean Our Whole universe. The planests, stars and galaxies have not traveled byond the rim of the singualrity.
The singularity exists within the infinite Space. It always will as long as Our universe is finite.
originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: ImaFungi
Lets take a look at Your agruments.
1. If Earth was placed in a absolute vacuum Space. Earth would not spin for ever. Because there is a differencial in pressure between the absolute vaccum and the mass "Earth".
Earth would not exist after a finite amount of chanegs. Therefor Earth would not spin for ever.
A open absolute infinite vaccum of space would cause Earth to change a finite amount of times and eventually Earth would disappear.
2. If you look at the bigger Picture and substitute Earth With the singularity. The same thing would happen. The singularity would eventually disappear and become what it used to be. It is changing and expanding as we speak.
3. Do you think Finite that is within a vaccum Space would last for ever? Be infinite?
One cannot believe in a concept that does not exist.