One cannot believe in something that does not exist.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

That wasn't what I was referring to, this was:

So you came up with your ideas on your own?

The question you asked wasn't condescending, the above statement was.

Of course my ideas are my own, what I was expressing before was is regards to this:

When one says he believes in God, it is my belief that he doesn’t tell the truth.

I don't agree, faith is something you either have or don't have, I have faith and look around and see all the beauty and glory of Mother Nature, that's my proof. That's the truth, you may or may not believe it. Just because someone doesn't agree with your beliefs doesn't make their beliefs untrue to them.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

God HAS introduced Himself to my senses 1,000's of times.

More probably.

He responds to those who genuninely, persistently, earnestly, heart-felt-ly, SEEK HIS FACE, SEEK HIM FOR WHO HE IS.

He doesn't care for pharisees.

He calls those who deny His existence fools.

Besides all that . . . your "logic" is flawed. Millions of children believe in Santa Claus.

Doesn't matter what kind of belief a person has. It will never suffice because it's a faith in something imagined. And regardless what the belief is or how valid it may seem, that's all it can ever be.

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne
a reply to: butcherguy

By most peoples definition, trees exist.

Go out and chop down a '7'.

Perhaps philosophy is over your head.

'7' what...trees?

Perhaps others are correct and you are a troll.
I told you to chop down A '7'.
I told you to chop down an idea.
I didn't attempt to insult you either.

a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

The question you asked wasn't condescending, the above statement was.

Of course my ideas are my own, what I was expressing before was is regards to this:

I was referring to that particular question. It is not a statement. It’s a question. You can tell by the question mark.

I was trying to ask if you came up with those ideas on your own. There is no need for this attitude, simply because you do not like what I’m saying.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Besides all that . . . your "logic" is flawed.

How?

a reply to: butcherguy

Perhaps others are correct and you are a troll.
I told you to chop down A '7'.
I told you to chop down an idea.
I didn't attempt to insult you either.

You insulted me. You avoided all my arguments to make a meaningless statement.

Chop down a 7?

a reply to: lostgirl

Actually, I was hoping to get the attention for myself, by laying out a well-thought, logical counter point...

It appears as though you agreed with me....technically.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne
If you think it is a meaningless statement you are not getting my point that a number is an idea and unlike a tree, which is a physical object, you can't chop it down.
I, unlike you, will not say that the concept is over your head, because I doubt that you are that stupid.
Instead, I will leave with the opinion that you are a troll.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

You said people

CANNOT believe in something that's not there, not true.

I gave you an example of millions of children believing in Santa Claus.

Also, just because your senses have not detected or registered communications from God or God's evidence in your life

does NOT mean that other people are as limited as you are in such regards.

It is arrogance to assume that they are.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

I can believe the universe is 13.7 billion years old. I can believe that the Universe was created as a result of a random event. I can believe that the what today is defined as the fundamental laws of physics is absolute.

I cannot prove any of these things in relation to first hand experience.

So if it is possible you believe these things are things you believe in???????

Prove it!

Otherwise you are presenting a potential difference in relation to psychosis, in resect to the difference between Schizophrenia and a Bipolar
Psychosis.

a reply to: BO XIAN

You said people

CANNOT believe in something that's not there, not true.

I gave you an example of millions of children believing in Santa Claus.

Also, just because your senses have not detected or registered communications from God or God's evidence in your life

does NOT mean that other people are as limited as you are in such regards.

It is arrogance to assume that they are.

I think I've already refuted your argument.

Something that doesn't exist is nothing. How is it one can believe in Santa Clause if it is nothing? Because they are instead believing the stories told to them, and the way he is depicted.

I wonder what your senses have told you about God, besides what you've read in the Bible?

a reply to: butcherguy

If you think it is a meaningless statement you are not getting my point that a number is an idea and unlike a tree, which is a physical object, you can't chop it down.
I, unlike you, will not say that the concept is over your head, because I doubt that you are that stupid.
Instead, I will leave with the opinion that you are a troll.

No I'm saying your point is meaningless, and yes I get it.

But simply asserting something without argument to back it up is not philosophy. That is the domain of religion. I don't think religious people are stupid.

I asked a question you refused to answer, and until you do you are just a troll in my opinion.

a reply to: Kashai

Yes. One can choose to believe the evidence or not. This is obvious. It is all lore.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

No. You haven't refuted my perspective, at all.

You have flattered your biases and presumptions, assumptions.

I've found in His relationship with me . . . that He's the same as He reveals Himself to be in His Word and in nature.

One added thing is that I've found He does not enjoy formula kinds of relating. That's evident in His Word but not explicitly. Even His own formulae in the Old Testament, He could readily alter with someone like Abraham, Job, others.

He likes a dynamic, moment by moment dialogue, a dance as a kind of RELATIONSHIP.

Of course, TRUST of Him and His Loving Nature and His determination to do 'His kids' good is also a high priority with Him.

I anticipate you hostility to my answers above but that will have to be tough tacos.

a reply to: BO XIAN

But you can never claim to truly know. There is no way to know, there is nothing to base your evidence off of. If we knew that humans couldnt create thoughts from scratch, or applying meaning onto feelings, than there would be more of a possibility that what you sense is God. Theres just no way to truly know, absolutely no proof of any kind. What makes it worse is when you attempt a logical argument to support why you think God exists, and than that argument is clearly seen to be false or fallible, so then the pure question of 'Does/can an intelligent creator of this universe exist?", is muddied up by countless logical arguments that are in no way proof, and here I am talking about the millions of details and sayings and so forth that attempt to self prove and build up a case for a proving answer to that above question. There is no evidence that an intelligent creator has proven itself to an observer in/of the universe.

a reply to: ImaFungi

NONSENSE.

He's just infinitely more clever than you are.

He delights to prove Himself

TO THOSE WHO earnestly seek Him and an intimate dance with Him.

They have all the proof they need in the form they need.

Rebellious naysayers who claim that He does not even exist are extremely rarely going to get much of anything from Him--much less PROOF of anything about Him.

Dream on.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: ImaFungi

NONSENSE.

He's just infinitely more clever than you are.

He delights to prove Himself

TO THOSE WHO earnestly seek Him and an intimate dance with Him.

They have all the proof they need in the form they need.

Rebellious naysayers who claim that He does not even exist are extremely rarely going to get much of anything from Him--much less PROOF of anything about Him.

Dream on.

Everything you can think to say about God I have already thought of or have heard, meaning, you cant say anything that can prove God exists, even truthfully to yourself, because I have tried tremendously, and still often do for about 30 minutes oscillating between considering a God exists and one not, and I have always returned to 'no proof, to me or anyone', because there is no way to transfer the truth, from a potentially true experience such as 'God proving himself to you in a non skepticular way", to putting into words and pictures and documenting the true, honest, non bias or fallible ways.

Give me one piece of proof/statement/evidence besides the bible that you know that this universe was intelligently created?

a reply to: ImaFungi

It is illogical . . .

and totally unfounded in human experience

to find

ORDER

spontaneously jumping out of chaos.

Yet you fantasize and pretend otherwise. The lack of logic is clearly and firmly in

YOUR lap.