Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

originally posted by: Ektar
I am still thinking about Duke. Duke was with both Herdsman
& Byars. Did then men travel together to the trail?

They must have travelled at least a part of the way, together.

...If so were they in a pick up truck? Did Duke ride between them?

Good question.

...How much time did Duke spend with both men before the accident?

Probably, at least, two days. Unless Herdman &/or Byars decided the first day, to do two days of trekking in one day... If - the campsite was found, where it is claimed to have been found.

...I still find it very odd that Duke was afraid of Byars unless Byars did
something bad.

I have not seen this reported anywhere - unless we're lumping Byars in with Duke was afraid of people.
As far as I am aware - no reports have made it to the public eye that tell of any reunion between Byars & Duke.
Which - is another non-fact that leaves more suspicion.

...Usually once you befriend an animal & spend some time with it then they are friendly with you.
I would think once Herdsman went missing & Duke couldn't find him then Duke would want to be with Byars & not abandoned just to be alone.

So - is it possible that Duke really was frightened or presented with some supernatural canine lure...and took off from the campsite in such a way that Herdman did all the things, the official story portends to have happened - with a part of that 'portention' having Byars accompanying Herdman in the quest to find/retrieve the Hungarian retriever - and Herdman's tracks (as described by the Human Trackers) travelling more than a mile downstream - - - - maybe Duke was really gone (*) when Herdman met his fate.
Under that scenario - Was Duke (1) simply gone, or (2) taken?

a reply to: WanDash
It's just very odd that Duke was not with Byars after Byars was looking
for Herdman so long before he left to get help. In a normal scenario
I would think that the dog would have found his master & stayed by his
or her side until some one arrived at the scene.

Another normal would be that Duke can't find Herdman (cause he's off a cliff
with no tracks) so the dog, unless skiddish (I doubt due to breed & use to people)
would seek out Byars & want to be with the only person he knows & befriended.
Dogs for the most part are social & pack animals & therefore would some what if
not totally trust the only human or animal it knows & that would be Byars.

Byars may have scared the crap out of Duke on purpose so the dog would not follow him
& would not try to lead Byars, the fisherman or anyone to the possible murder scene.

Other than that the only thing I can think of would be paranormal. I really would like
to know what the mysterious object is that you found WanDash.
That's bloody crazy in itself.

Cheers
Ektar

Other scenario would be that something terrible went wrong & Byars did
something that spooked Duke so Duke would be bloody scared to go near him.

originally posted by: Ektar
It's just very odd that Duke was not with Byars after Byars was looking
for Herdman so long before he left to get help. In a normal scenario
I would think that the dog would have found his master & stayed by his
or her side until some one arrived at the scene…

I agree – “it is odd”.
On the other hand – we have been presented with so little actual evidence in this case that I accept no aspect of the story as told.
In our introduction to this story, randyvs stated that he had waited more than a day past normal hope…and that the story was being sold as “Duke ran off – Herdman ran after – Byars survived – No sign/s of Duke or Herdman – Could it be M’Four One One?”.

You are probably not old enough to have been ‘hooked on Lassie’…but, going for help was Lassie’s specialty (or, so it seemed).

The Search & Rescuer that contributed to this thread reported that Duke remained within a half-mile of the campsite/body…until the final day or so before he was discovered in the parking area of a trailhead some 10-15 miles away from the campsite and location of the body.

If Duke could be seen by them – then, Duke could probably hear, see & smell them, as well, if he was within ½ mile of the campsite or of the body location.

Did he actually run away from them (was he scared?), or was he “doing a Lassie”?

If the coroner was correct in declaring that death was instantaneous (whatever that means), Duke wasn’t hanging around to try and save him for more than a day or two (do you think?).

If Herdman had been lying there (or in the vicinity) since the night he went missing, Duke wasn’t hanging around waiting for Jesus & the Disciples to happen by, and perform a miracle…

And, with all the activity in the area, beginning 2 days after Friday’s full moon – he did not try to leave…

Even allowed himself to be seen by choppers and ground crews…and did not try to leave (obviously, if unhindered – otherwise, he certainly could have)…

And yet, at some point, I’m guessing that Duke had a ‘wow’ee’ moment, and realized that his needs were not going to be met…waiting for someone to follow…him…
And, he did not follow them…
Then trekked 15 miles away from the campsite, where he allowed someone to take him into their car and lap, etc….

I guess that was a longwinded way of reiterating that I agree with you.

a reply to: WanDash

Well - I'm not as offended by 666 as I once was.

I don't find it offensive either. Not in the least.
It just struck me as a little odd, so I felt it would be reasonable
to ask for an explanation. And I think now he has given one, grudgingly.
But I'm fine with that as well, because I provoked the response I received
I jerked his chain to see if his mud would hold. That's all.

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Welcome to the thread Meh!

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

I too was not concerned about Byars until I saw the picture and started focusing on the esctacy/alcohol variable in this case. In my opinion, David Paulides completely missed this important piece and it really takes a bit of credibility away from being a totally paranormal occurence. No other Missing 411 case had any victim that was doped up on drugs before or after they went Missing.

But first, I have to be convinced the authorities didn't
contrive this part of the story. And at this point I don't believe a
word of it and even have reason not to believe it. It's a total
white wash my good member. Firefighters on dope? Oh that's
perfectly acceptable. (sar) No reason to investigate Byars for
peddling dope? You guys don't seem to get that you can't push
past that very important point.

a reply to: randyvs
You've again hit the nail on the head!
I don't believe the toxicology report for a second because I've had three top-notch pathology nerds tell me that such tests just aren't possible on a body that has been exposed long enough to be "partially mummified" as the authorities described Herdman's remains. In order to get results from such tests it is necessary to test the vitreous fluid of the eyes or obtain blood samples. Exposure of the remains to the elements in these environmental conditions renders any toxicology tests moot since all bodily fluids would have been long gone by the time the body was discovered.
It was the authorities' announcement of doing toxicology tests that caught my attention since they had already announced that the remains were "partially mummified" as would be expected in those conditions. Knowing that such tests require bodily fluids I was sure they would come back with a "no report" due to the absence of bodily fluids. Imagine then, my total shock when the medical examiner or someone speaking for him came out with his announcement about alcohol and other drugs being present.
That really got my attention since it made no sense whatsoever in terms of what is actually possible in forensic testing. That is when I began calling friends who are far smarter and more up-to-date on possible new tests than am I. But they tell me that there are no such tests that can be run on a completely dehydrated body.
Right up until that report was released, I had some doubts but when county officials come out with preposterous claims of tests that are impossible---then, yeah, I begin to wonder what is being covered up and why.
I don't have any answers---just lots of questions because what has been presented isn't possible.

originally posted by: randyvs
…I don't find it offensive either. Not in the least.
It just struck me as a little odd, so I felt it would be reasonable to ask for an explanation. And I think now he has given one, grudgingly.
But I'm fine with that as well, because I provoked the response I received I jerked his chain to see if his mud would hold. That's all.

Understood.
Good move!

originally posted by: randyvs
…But first, I have to be convinced the authorities didn't contrive this part of the story. And at this point I don't believe a word of it and even have reason not to believe it. It's a total white wash my good member. Firefighters on dope? Oh that's perfectly acceptable. (sar) No reason to investigate Byars for
peddling dope? You guys don't seem to get that you can't push past that very important point.

So – again – “why?”
Why the white wash?
What could be so important about Michael Herdman – or Byars – or Duke – or the Los Padres or Sespe wilderness…that everyone agreed to play this story?
…sinking quite a few tax dollars in the process…
… … …then sealing official documents…

Am I missing something who said that they were on ecstasy & alcohol?
Sorry I don't remember that...if so please elaborate.

What I do remember is the body was to far gone to obtain blood samples
for any kind of alcohol or drug test.

Cheers
Ektar

Sorry but the above post sounds exactly like a previous post
with the vitreous eye fluid...as all of that was already mentioned...
I apologize if I'm wrong. There are many pages & some people have
not read them all before posting.

Cheers
Ektar

DON"T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AS THIS WAS SUPPOSE TO BE PART OF THE EDIT...
SORRY !

originally posted by: Ektar
Am I missing something who said that they were on ecstasy & alcohol?
Sorry I don't remember that...if so please elaborate.

What I do remember is the body was to far gone to obtain blood samples
for any kind of alcohol or drug test.

Cheers
Ektar

randyvs offered this link and another on October 27, 2014, regarding the toxicology results that alleged alcohol & ecstasy (amphetamine & M*D*M*A, 2 primary components of ecstasy) were found in his liver & muscle tissue.
I share the raised eyebrows on everything to do with these 'reports'.

a reply to: WanDash

Yes you are correct...thanks.
I thought we discussed that there wasn't enough of "anything" to get
a proper toxicity report, that being dead for so long in the 'elements'
could hinder the report.

Thank you for clearing that up...I forgot...me bad.

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: seahawkshos040
his body has been found. press conference coming in 7 minutes

I'm heartsick. I started reading this thread just the other day and had no idea of the outcome. It takes me awhile to read a good thread because I do click on and read links/comments.

Isn't this just the way though..

We go through so much in our lives, births, good times, suffering, pain, anguish, etc. And then at the end of the day...
They found the body, they found the body, just like that it's over.

Death is such a part of life.

Please take no offense to my comment. Your comment was like a punch in the gut, as I am still only on the page your comment was on that I am replying to. I never skip to the end of these type of threads; and these type of threads are still very good reading material.

I've read each and every comment (up to your thus far), and I plan to continue.
Prayers.

a reply to: WanDash

Hey Wan I bet this also runs through your head....
That maybe there was an affair going on...I know it's
been mentioned, but it is one of the things that may or
may not show up in the long run...maybe hidden for
a good while.

I am very surprised that Herdman's wife let it close so fast.
Is that normal for a case like this? I wouldn't think so...
If something simple like a heart attack okay, but how can
anyone let this case die SO quickly?
That really bothers me. If it were me I would be searching
for evidence every where & look at ALL possibilities.

That in itself is also fishy.
And Duke is still an a VERY important part of the puzzle.

I still cannot believe the bloody case is closed with ALL of these
unanswered questions. Do they actually think everyone is ignorant?

Or they are hiding something & waiting for everything to die down & disappear.

I hope we are NOT at a dead end... Randys

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Ektar
…I am very surprised that Herdman's wife let it close so fast.
Is that normal for a case like this? I wouldn't think so...
If something simple like a heart attack okay, but how can
anyone let this case die SO quickly?
That really bothers me. If it were me I would be searching
for evidence every where & look at ALL possibilities.
…That in itself is also fishy. …

Was Herdman an orphan – an only child …?
Where are his parents &/or grand-parents &/or siblings, et al, with the same battle cry?
What could any of them have seen, that would satisfy their minds with the story that has been told?
Is it possible that the case is sealed because one or more of them have let the authorities know that they want access to all case files for independent investigation?
(I know – still need to call… I know.)

Recall the outcries in the story surrounding the death of Michael Hastings?
In the beginning, his wife is reported to have expressed determination to find a better explanation.
She even participated in an ATS thread (imo) on that subject…identifying herself as a family member, and female, and that, while tragic, the family had fairly accepted that it was, in fact, no more than an accident.
When faced with such traumatic changes to the course of one’s life, while in the midst of career/s & “what will I do with the rest of my life?”, people often take the fork that looks like “survival” or “self-preservation”…, and refuse to look back.

That to say – a young surviving spouse “dropping it too quickly” is not all that unprecedented.

a reply to: WanDash

Thanks I never thought about the rest of the family just the wife
& friends.
At least we heard a few things from Hastings wife, relatives & friends
where it really doesn't seem that way here...I could be wrong.

Also wasn't the Hastings file left open longer? or was it just there
were more questions?

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Ektar
They declared the Hastings death as an accident.
The detective in charge, however, stated that she had not written the final report, and as far as she was concerned, the case was not closed until she filed the report, which...could be as soon as Never, according to her justifications.
So - while the death was ruled an accident, the case files have never been available to the public (if I understood correctly).

a reply to: diggindirt

Without your replys dd, I wouldn't be as confident in the
direction the smell of rat has taken me.

Right up until that report was released, I had some doubts but when county officials come out with preposterous claims of tests that are impossible---then, yeah, I begin to wonder what is being covered up and why.
I don't have any answers---just lots of questions because what has been presented isn't possible.

Everyone reading and participating here, should take a moment to understand
in depth. The use of the word perposterous, in regards to officials telling an
official story, as diggindirt has done here. An esteemed member of ATS and our
society, whos credentials suggest only a very high integrity.

I don't imagine you just throw words like that around considering the context
do you dirt?


a reply to: WanDash

So – again – “why?”
Why the white wash?
What could be so important about Michael Herdman – or Byars – or Duke – or the Los Padres or Sespe wilderness…that everyone agreed to play this story?
…sinking quite a few tax dollars in the process…
… … …then sealing official documents…

Notice how " The sealing of official documents" is an enhancement to the
" White wash"? ( dope involved story )

a reply to: randyvs

Actually, that was exactly the word that my former student used when I called to ask about the tests they claimed to have run and the results they claimed to have gotten.
I have several former students and colleagues who are still in the forensics world and have access to the latest tests so I called a few of them before making those statements. I needed to be sure that some new test hadn't been invented to get such remarkable results from the remains.
One of those forensic nerds said, "What has that guy been smoking?" when he read the story I sent to him. He did point out that they did a little song and dance about the alcohol level being questionable since decomposition of human remains does produce alcohol. However---a human body left in the desert for about 2 weeks, available to predators---both animal and insect----whatever soft tissue was left was desiccated in the arid conditions. Now my buddy wants to get a look at that autopsy report just to see what in the world it might really say. If the case is ever "unsealed" it might make an excellent basis for a case study in imagination on the part of a medical examiner.

a reply to: diggindirt

Good on you mate! That is very interesting to say the least. I thought
there was a problem with the report.

Cheers
Ektar