Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: randyvs
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
Whew! I didn't expect this...
Am I blushing?
This means so much to me.
I would like to thank the Academy -- Arnold the Pig -- My first grade teacher...Mrs. Woods - who was older then than anyone living now -- and...of course, the presenter of this award - randyvs...
Cheers and Applause can only be repaid in a few ways...and here's one, called...
The Clap

a reply to: randyvs

a reply to: Missmissie173

You do realise you're invited as an avid ATS member?

Hi randyvs:

Um...Sure - I think.?

Just to clarify - I would like to help with the research. Unable to go on the actual hunt...

Did I miss something?

Anyway, sounds like a great project!
Thanks so much.
Missy

Great idea and I wish you the best of luck with your expedition. I hiked close to the area and came across lots of rattle snakes on or near the trail. I would never go off trail (especially not barefoot).

a reply to: hesse

Bingo hesse! You get super sleuth points for that one.

Wandash

You might want to take note. Herdmen ran off barefoot
and was never the victim of a snake bite in an area that is
apparently crawling with them.

a reply to: WanDash

Searchers spotted Duke near the creek Wednesday & Thursday..."
"...the dog looked good... ...running all over the place. Mentally he's frazzled because he's not coming to anyone who calls him..."
"The dog has shown up both times...about a mile north to northwest to where their campsite was when Mike was last seen..."


FYI dont chase the dog wait and it will come to you. I missed what kind of dog is it? Wish I was there I would go too.

originally posted by: dinofinder
a reply to: roadgravel
Hi all, let me settle a few things, I was involved in the search. The area was by far the most rugged terrain I have ever searched in. The temp was 90's during the day, 6o's at night. Very survivable. There was running water(creek) at his camp site. His pack was found in camp along with bare footprints leaving camp. The camp site was in a steep canyon with sides to steep to climb. This only left up and down stream as logical directions of travel. The rocks were all moss/algae covered and very,very slick. Although the creek was usually in the 10/ 15' wide range there were many deep pools many over 6' deep. The day before I searched one of our members went face to face with a bear after sticking his head into a small cave. When I jumped from the chopper within 10 minutes I had fresh bear tracks in the sand. The search was aided by drones which were limited by the many chopper flights in and out of the canyon, Both could not fly at the same time. There was a dive crew that searched all the pools below the camp site. Again this is the most logical area to search. The dog did stay in the area,(within 1/2 square mile) but was very scared and would not allow people to come near him. We had a 4 person team of professional animal trappers trying to catch the dog.
We all know the sad outcome to the story, The cause of death has been ruled (Blunt Force Trauma).
Our guess s that his dog may have been fighting with a bear/lion. There is no other reason a sound man would have left without shoes. He may have tangled with an animal or simply tripped and fell with a fatal blow. The news did report he was covered partially with brush which suggests an animal may have been involved.
Peace to his family and RIP to him.

Your post seems right. I was thinking it was dark the dog took off because he is a hunting dog (I believe is what we settled on) when Duke took off Duke was quite (my dad raised hunting dogs, pointers beautiful while pointing they dont make sounds while hunting) so Duke made no sound but his owner knew the way he took off something was bad wrong. You learn your dog by watching him.

Only thing I can think of that is strong enough is a Cougar. The Cougar would have went straight for the throat for a kill no noise. Duke would know it was a lost cause. Duke was terroized. From my own expierience I had a Short Haired English Hunting dog and a bear was on the back of our wrap around deck. Bo my dog walked up on him and the fight was on they fought around the deck back up the stairs and Bo came right back.

I think this man was attacked by a Cougar and draged up the mountain by the Cougar and hide under the brush. Duke wandered and finnaly found the truck. Which also happens with hunting dogs, they get out of site all the time but as dark comes they will come back.

I would also like to know how Duke reacts to the friend?

I could tell some hunting stories the old timmers have told me and it is amazing.

Praying the family finds Peace.

a reply to: randyvs
Thanks Randy...interesting point...
Any idea what the temperature was, for the first couple/few hours after 9:30 PM, that night...in the Sespe?
As temperatures pass a certain point (going down), rattlers I'm familiar with become less active...
Nonetheless - it is still something to keep in mind.

a reply to: WanDash

The thing is as it grows cooler at night snakes will
take to the sun baked rocks that will stay warmer.
And they were obviously active with S&R receiving
a nasty bite from one of the varments. But snakes should
deter a sane person from going any where or even taking
off their shoes at all. I would think. Again, something is
just wrong here.

You guys are doing a fabulous job with keeping this thread
on-going! I have continued to follow all along. Sorry I haven't
been able to contribute much since the search dogs.

I SO wish I could join you guys! I lived in San Fernando Valley
(Sherman Oaks) from 1985 to 2003. I love CA & miss it greatly. I use
to relocate rattlesnakes here & there...the Mojave Green I think is
a 1 stepper but you guys will be going during hibernation from
everything...I think.

Rattle snake is good to eat! Marinade in Italian Salad Dressing over
night & then grill it!

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Ektar
...I use to relocate rattlesnakes here & there...the Mojave Green I think is
a 1 stepper but you guys will be going during hibernation from
everything...I think.

...

By "1 stepper" - are you referring to how much notice it gives (rattles) before striking?
Or...what?

Rattle snake is good to eat! Marinade in Italian Salad Dressing over
night & then grill it! ...

So - in saying that you used to 'relocate' rattlesnakes...I'm guessing you mean 'from the wild to your grill'...?

a reply to: WanDash

LMAO! No a "One Stepper" means when bitten you have
one step to take before dying. There are also 2 steppers...

Funny wish I has relocated to grill....this was a 5+ Ft snake
that was at a sheep ranch I helped out at & they did not
want me to relocate the snake. It had been so dry (CA desert)
that the snake would keep coming back to look for water.

This was me first kill...chopped head off with shovel...mounted
& ten made a midline incision from bottom of ratters forward &
the skin came off nice & clean (also mounted) then cut up the
remains & placed inside a bag of Italian Salad dressing to marinade
for hours prior to grilling. Everyone loved it.

ALL of the above was a first for me...I just improvised like a nice
jazz piece...LOL! but true

I used to snatch them up in a 5 gallon bucket & remove from people
& into a safe habitat.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: [post=18404127]Ektar[/pos

ditto what ektar said! this turned out to be an excellent thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed to it....everone be careful on this trip, but get as much info as possible....

originally posted by: Ektar
LMAO! No a "One Stepper" means when bitten you have
one step to take before dying. There are also 2 steppers...

...

So - as the old adage goes - "You've got one step, so make it a good one."

You don't think the smitten S&R member might have encountered one of these...do you?
He said that when he looked around (after being bitten)...it was a very dark color.
He heard no warning/rattling...but that could have been due to any number of other things (such as wind, rushing water below, or the noise his own clothing was making as he was traversing down the three-levels of rock)...
BTW - this guy was extremely lucky... Don't know that anyone that didn't have communications equipment with a chopper available in the vicinity would have made it... He said that before he left the hospital, he'd been given 100 vials of anti-venom.

originally posted by: randyvs

...The thing is as it grows cooler at night snakes will
take to the sun baked rocks that will stay warmer.
And they were obviously active with S&R receiving
a nasty bite from one of the varments. But snakes should
deter a sane person from going any where or even taking
off their shoes at all. I would think. Again, something is
just wrong here. ...

You're right...about snakes liking sun-baked rocks.
And - I totally agree with you on the sanity equation.
If I get to join you...I will be wearing at least two pairs of shoes...at all times.

a reply to: WanDash

Wow Wan, I didn't even hear about that dude! He is one
lucky guy. I remember someone I work with was at a
party got loaded, it was late & everyone had gone to bed.
The guy went & messed with some rattle snakes that he
was warned not to.
At 3am a neighbor saw him pacing the front yard with a toaster
using the cord as a tourniquet. He was kept over night & day.

This story keeps getting better & better. Do you think you guys
will have enough information to submit & possibly have the case
re-opened? There are SO many unanswered questions...& then
there's Byars.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Ektar
He is Assistant Fire Chief, Bill Herrera...
Here is his personal account of the ordeal...
The account also gives insight into some of the S&R efforts, I've not seen elsewhere.

if i were going to join you guys out there i would probably invest in a pair of these...

Chippewa Boots® is the undisputed leader in the making of the finest snake boots anywhere in the world. Stylish yet constructed to withstand the strikes of venomous snakes thanks to the combination of lining and outside leather thickness. Don't trust your luck to any ordinary snake boot. Ask for Chippewa snake boots.

Chippewa Snake Boots

i personally own a pair of chippewa motorcycle boots and they're the best pair of boots ive ever owned in my life. they hold up over time and with significant abuse without showing any wear for literally years and years now. handmade in america and guaranteed for life. worth the money without a doubt. especially the snake boots, if you find yourself in an environment like sepse.

Just got off the phone with the ventura county sheriff's
records dept. Asked the officer how I might go about obtaining
more detailed information surrounding the death of Mike Herdman?
And how forthcoming the dept. would be with the records?
After being put on hold for maybe a minute, I was informed they
wouldn't be forth coming with any information, records or files
because the case has been SEALED. I asked why it would be sealed
when the case is closed? She said," I don't really know why or by whom
the information would be sealed". Then I asked if that was common
when the case is closed and she said yes. Then gave me a number to
call an officer who could answer some questions about FOIA and why
the information is not available to the public. And I'll make that call
in a few and see where that goes.

Note

It would be no exaggeration to describe a feeling as
very sketchy. I mean when it comes to accessing any
departmentalised government agency. No tell'n who
else might be listening in and the paranoia, it's just
so wrong that anyone would feel that way. But we
move forward. And we'll be back after these messages.

Help the paranoids are out to get me!


And we're back after a very cordial converstion with the sargent of
records, that produced absolutely nothing more. She was however
very familiar with the case and was adament that even if I went
to the trouble of gaining the documents. I would only find out
there is nothing more in them than I already know. Because the
case is just as much of a mystery to them. I told her how hard it
is to believe these two were out there do'in dope and she agreed,
but sited toxicology. So I hate to say it, but we may be left hang'n
on this one.

Mkay, I leave you guys for a week or so and there's an expedition!? Why the hell was I born in England?? I wanna tag along too ><

Seriously though, guys, enjoy your trek and be safe. We all know the signs, let's not have any of our valued members "go missing," or decide a trek through the woods at midnight is a great idea.

And randy, good job on taking the initiative there! I have no idea why the records for an accidental death would be sealed away from the public, but hey ho. What did we expect, eh? A brief search tells me it is possible to "un-seal" those records, but it would require a court order. And I bet even his family would have a hell of a hard time getting those records opened up.
All of this post-event secrecy just adds to the questions. I'm curious as to why no one closer to Mike is pushing for more answers from the sheriff's office. If one of my loved ones had died under such odd circumstances, I'd want to see every single line they'd written about it.

a reply to: randyvs
Thanks for pushing on this, Randy!
Wow - Sealed
Any explanation/s on what legal grounds they could invoke to justify such an act?
Seems to me that a lot of public funds (meaning - taxpayer dollars) were invested into the Search & Rescue operations...not to mention - Federal Funds/Resources, as well (the highly-trained human trackers from ICE).
Anyway...
I'm still working on the remaining pages...but, as stated before, have been unexpectedly swamped of late.
Will get back as soon as possible.