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Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

page: 52
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posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 11:56 PM
a reply to: VoidHawk
Excellent work - VoidHawk
Sorry, but - wouldn't you know it? - as soon as I suggest this...I get swamped from multiple angles.
Will get back to it ASAP.

posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 12:03 AM
a reply to: randyvs
randyvs - "Want to" - and "Able to" are sometimes not riding in the same car.
What I mentioned about my sincere.
Was knocked out of the rehab for more than a week (this last week)...
This has been almost the norm for the last year & a half... Start making progress, and something interjects itself...knocking me out of the loop for weeks & even months at a stretch.
If everything were to go as I hope...I wouldn't be physically capable of attempting such an exertion 'til latter November or December...
I know that might push it past the optimum window...or push that window into next year...but - gotta be honest.

posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 08:58 AM
Darn you, Randy, for making a thread that continues to suck me in! I escaped its gravitational pull for a little while until yesterday when I found myself once again enthralled by the recent upsurge of investigation and plotting.

First, as a Nor Cal gal with some hiking experience, documenting skills and rabid curiosity, I'm interested in joining the Sespe Creek expedition (work schedule permitting) if you would have me. After researching the area through various CA hiking websites, I believe that extreme caution should be exercised. While some of the hiking sites categorize the trek as "moderate," many others describe the area as "very rough terrain."

And then of course there's this:

'Spotted in the Los Padres National Forest, not too far from the hiking location. The hiker said,

I was mid-way into a long step off a shelf and glanced downward to check my foot placement. This boy was exactly where I my foot was coming down.

And this...

With the recent drought, these beautiful but deadly creatures will be out in greater numbers.
Link to Los Padres National Forest Watch

It might be a good idea to recruit someone who's familiar with this particular area as a guide? Maybe contact previous trekkers who post hiking forum links for the area? For example:

One more thing to think about: There seems to be an ongoing disagreement among hikers on whether the Tar Creek/Sespe Creek area is actually closed to protect endangered Condors. This Dec 2013 blog seems sure that it is, while others say that it is still open.

Bonus: Here's another rabbit hole on where people are discussing the Mike Herdman case. I haven't had the time to go through all of it, but Post #4 gives some detailed information about the site where Herdman & Byars camped.

edit on 9/4.2014 by graceunderpressure because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 09:38 AM
a reply to: randyvs

IF I can do this it wont be for a month or two. Next week I'm moving to a new home which is going to keep me busy for two or three weeks.
Also gotta get one of those visa waiver things otherwise your guv wont let me in! Maybe I should fly to Mexico and just walk in

Like WanDash, I think it's going to be late November - December before I can do this. If you guys can get it together sooner then go for it.

posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 12:08 PM
a reply to: graceunderpressure

Darn you, Randy, for making a thread that continues to suck me in!

I really did laugh out loud when I read this. As for a response:


And you are are absolutely welcome if we can all get together
on a window of time. Which reminds me....


At least we're in California where you can count on the best of winters.
Not sure what Void wants to do but I will set my window of time
according to three upon agreement to make things easier. So you guys
come together on a window and it's on. Just know that if you take to long
to agree. I'll gather the uneducated locals and make a first run with the
yahoos. Just a bunch a G-D drunks.
But they're not afraid of the devil
himself. Not to worry tho our expedition will not include such as the like.
i know that might sound mean but it is what it is.

If you guys can get it together sooner then go for it.

No member left behind is my attitude.

Grace can you look to Nov, Dec, maybe after New years?
That will delete the snakes to guys. They'll all be at rest.

I know this is going to be an expense for you guys and
will do everything in my power to make this as safe and
yet forth coming as possible. I know I will be getting a
great memory that will be worth it. So as it stands,
accommadations for three.

Say when....

I love grand standing.

edit on Rpm90414v002014u40 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 01:27 PM
a reply to: graceunderpressure
Thanks graceunderpressure!

Within the 'rabbit hole' link you provided...
Here's what I find interesting...

The data in the 4th post on the Websleuths forum page, I presume to also be the source for roadgravel's info on the campsite location...

The video in the linked KTLA5 piece does give a good topographic-map-view (starting somewhere around the 1:09 mark) of where S&R said the campsite was located... precisely where I had shown the campsite in the posts that regarded the spire.
And, in fact, the person describing 'what happened' traced the path that Herdman and Duke took, when leaving the camp...which was, imo the more difficult path along the elevated portion, that eventually went down to the creekbed.

With this being (or - if this is) the case - I don't know where they arrived at the "3/4" of a mile from the campsite figure, as it seems obvious that the body location was almost 2 miles (as the crow flies) from the campsite.

In any case - - - thanks for all the info... Will continue to comb through it.

posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 01:38 AM
I have no reason to think/believe -or- want to cast aspersive suspicion/s on anyone past the this case...but... ... ...
There is only one place/area that the body could have been found...if...the photos released by the Sheriff's department, along with the elevational & distance-from-campsite numbers were even remotely accurate...

So - when the Sheriff says "1,200' above the river-bottom below"...and "3/4 of a mile from the campsite"... AND ...when only one view at 1,200' above the river-bottom below matches the "photos" of the spot where the body was purportedly found... BUT ...that spot is way more than 3/4 of a mile from the campsite... I am just left in a lurch on what credence to apply to what we're being told.

Having read through one of the threads linked by graceunderpressure, which, at times, appeared to be headed in an intelligent direction... I stand by my earlier statement that this thread, is the best resource (to include conjecture, links/sources, and intelligent discussion) on the Internet for this case.

posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 07:08 PM
a reply to: WanDash
Here, here, Wandash! I quite agree, especially after trudging through various other web discussions, including this survivalist forum which has some nice pics of the area, but not much "new news." Good ol' ATS has the most well-researched and intelligent discussions on the subject. I also agree that there is some disparity about the information regarding the 3/4 mile versus 1200 ft. location of the body and the campsite. It doesn't add up. I'm so glad you had some time to peruse the other thread and validate your location theories.

Randy, yes. Nov, Dec or after the 1st would work great for me. Christmas week is already booked but otherwise, I'm good to go -- thanks. If you do go out on a "first run with the yahoos" before then, please keep this quote from a Ventura County sheriff in mind.

Dean said he could not overstate how difficult and dangerous the backcountry is where Herdman disappeared. Rescuers have been treated for heat exhaustion and injuries from rock slides. Mountain lions and bears scour the terrain, which is rife with thousand-pound boulders, hidden crevices and chest-high brush.

...and this quote from a hiker.

(I remember a little bit going up off trail from tar creek, brushy, very loose soil, typical sedimentary rock like sand or clay stone) which makes every step feel like the ground is slipping down.... it is not for the faint of heart.. because it is sedimentary rock, there are no good hand holds, as the "rock" breaks off..

We sure as heck don't want to be making a thread about you!

Back to the mystery, here's one more tidbit for the discussion from these outside threads. Someone made a good observation about the body's location.

Might be semantics but sheriff, and articles, say "covered with brush", not in a bush, or under a bush. Something to think about.

posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 09:46 PM
a reply to: graceunderpressure

Thanks Grace, lets just say I've never been one to tempt
fate. I'll look to the first of the year but at the same time,
well you know, curiosity.

edit on Rpm90514v47201400000043 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 03:09 PM
Just repeating that I DO want to do this! Going to take me a month or two to get everything sorted, but I will at some point be on a plain to an adventure of a lifetime...for me!

I am sooooo intrigued by the spire! does it really exist? if so why is it missing from Bing maps? If it doesn't exist why is it in so many google maps?
If its a magnetic anomaly would a standard compass reveal it?
I still wonder if its a hole in the ground, if it is, whats in it! We should take a long rope so that we can lower randyvs into it with a camera.

posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 12:27 AM
a reply to: VoidHawk

Oh yeah, I have a bolsons chair and harness even, like
hell you're ass Void!!!

And get used to call'n me Randy will yas!?

Reminds of a documentary I seen on TV when I was a kid.
There was hole in the earth some hunter lost his dog in
back in Missouri. He had his friends lower him in the hole
to try and retrieve the dog. When they raised the guy back
up out of the hole after never finding the bottom. The hunter
was alive, but completely insane and never recovered.

So I'm not you're huckleberry on that one.
edit on Ram90714v53201400000021 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 11:50 PM
Apologies for doing this – but – in continuing the effort that VoidHawk and myself have begun…an item has caught my attention, that I want to share before continuing the continuance…
So…first – Page 20…and then, into Page 21…
Thanks for your patience!

Page 20

KTLA article (and video) presented by research100
Herdman was found partially covered by brush below a cliff in a location 1,200 feet above and three-quarters of a mile away from the spot on Sespe Creek where he was last seen, Dean said.”

Last post on Page 20 – by roadgravel
“The temp high on the 13th and 14th in Fullerton was 78 and 80…”

Page 21

GreenMtnBoys posted this link to a page full of photos taken by a group of hikers through Sespe (to Willett Hot Springs).

While appreciating GreenMtnBoys thoughts, link & consideration (as well as the nice pic’s), a point being made in the referenced post, is to *discount* the severity of the terrain & grade/s, by showing the photos taken by a group of hikers making a trek to Willett (or Sespe?) Hot Springs.

In other articles, however – (one such being - How To Backpack Into Sespe Hot Springs) it would appear that the hikers noted above did not take the route-in that Herdman, Byars and Duke took…being – from Tar Creek Trail.

The scoop (in the “How To Backpack In…” article) seems to discourage this route, since “That…route utilizes an old, unmarked trail and appears to require hikers to traverse dangerous vertical descents and swim through (potentially) flooded gorges…” .
Additionally, I do not believe that, at the point Herdman left camp in bare feet…he & Byars had made it to the terrain south of the campsite…which, in itself, is worth close inspection for anyone concerned with the questions of – (1) how far would/could he have travelled, barefoot, chasing Duke, in his right mind (under no-inordinate duress) , &/or (2) are there any reasonably sound justifications for him climbing to where he must have…to have fallen (allegedly) to where his body was found… ?

According to the KTLA5 video referenced here…Herdman took the path outlined in red in the following GE image…

ATS Big Pic

The southern end of the red-lined-path is where Sgt. Buschow said that Herdman was last seen. I don’t know if that meant that Byars followed Herdman to this point…or if this is in the vicinity of where the last footprints were found/seen…
In either case – if there is evidence that Herdman travelled this far south in the Sespe Creek/River bottom…any and every path he could have taken to where his body was found would have been steep and exhausting…as well as – treacherous.

Will keep my remaining thoughts on this for later discussion (if pertinent/relevant).

Thanks for your time.

edit on 9/7/2014 by WanDash because: no ?

posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:12 PM
Hey, guys. Just want to say, once again, that this thread is awesome. I honestly check it a couple times in a day. You've been doing a great job with the research and I look forward to your reports from when you go there yourselves.

posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 05:17 AM
I am so thrilled to see ya'll go forward with your adventure.

Been out of town for a month and just thought I would see what was happening since checking in last.

Wow! I feel like I stumbled upon "Journey To The Center Of The Earth" 2014 addition!

Really, I have followed this thread from the beginning and just knew we couldn't let it end without some better answers to this mystery.

I wonder if anyone has interviewed Byers recently to see if he remembers any further details...also wonder if he would ever consider hypnosis?

Let me know if you need some research help.

Maybe David Paulides would like in on this expedition in some capacity? just a thought.

Big old Rebel Yell to you guys! More, More, More!

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 12:33 AM
Page 22

GreenMtnBoys posted a link regarding another hiker’s trip into the Sespe… That link pointed to another link, that actually had the tale of this guy’s experience.
GreenMtnBoys also boldly posted one of the comments on the initial link…
Both tales are worth consideration, imo.

Once again, I will note that this hiker took one of the more/better travelled trails along the Sespe (starting at the Piedras Blancas trailhead), and only hiked along the Sespe approximately 9 miles. Nonetheless – the encounter & apparent confirmation by one respondent might discourage the fainthearted…
(An odd note regarding the ‘’ thread ------ The last post in the thread, dated 10/25/2011, read ----- “BPI members killed while reenacting scene from Young Frankenstein. Victims were known to habitually venture off trail with inadequate footwear….)

The very next post, also contributed by GreenMtnBoys quotes an article, dated June 30, 2000, in the Santa Paul Times, regarding an exhibit for the California Oil Museum – “The Wild Sespe: Oil, Grizzlies & Gunsmoke”.

Gotta wonder if that exhibit is still on display…or…where it might be… …?

In case we haven’t provided a link to a/the press conference video that announced the discovery & recovery of the body…here is one provided by seahawkshos040.

Page 23

GreenMtnBoys posted a link to Taylor Byars’ Instagram page. As of today, the page says “This user is private.”

Another link provided by GreenMtnBoys, tells of the difficult terrain of the trail the poster had hiked with Mike through the Sespe (which sounds remarkably similar to descriptions of the Tar Creek Trail in previous links that have been highlighted).

Page 24 (Plenty of good dialogue – but, I abstracted nothing for this aspect of the project.)

Page 25 (Some very interesting dialogue and personal accounts – but, I abstracted nothing for this aspect of the project.)

Page 26 (More compelling dialogue and personal accounts – but, I abstracted nothing for this aspect of the project.)

Page 27

Post by seahawkshos040 quotes an unidentified source…who had participated for “the last 10 days” in the effort to find Mike Herdman.
The quote can be found on the “Find Mike Herdman” Facebook page…here, and here. It would appear that the poster is named Kyle Armstrong.
The gist of the comment seemed to question how much distance Herdman (or, perhaps, anyone) might have been able to travel barefoot in the terrain around “the last known place”.

Another post by seahawkshos040 giving a link to “mike herdman’s hiking map”.
Very helpful if anyone wants an idea of the terrain Herdman & Byars had come through in two days of hiking.
The map, however, shows, with a Red Cross…“where the body was found”…and, in my opinion, is way off. I’ve looked in the area and find no justification for such a location.
**Note that – in the legend, it states that…at, or around 9:30 PM “According to Taylor Byars…(Duke) suddenly began running so Mike jumped up and ran after him while he was barefoot…”.
seahawkshos040 also notes that Herdman & Byars had just entered the area known as “Devil’s Gate”…
My research has shown the area that is called “Devil’s Gate” to be a couple/few more miles downstream… But – in any case – they were in the vicinity.

Another post by seahawkshos040 giving a link to another map that, imo, more accurately places the location of the body.

Page 28

Another post by seahawkshos040…in reply to randyvs about the origination of the name “Devil’s Gate” (or otherwise)… Very interesting comment…
Would REALLY like to get to the bottom of this… “settlers…misinterpreted/(interpreted) the native American name of bad god tower”.

Post by CallmeRaskolnikov both quotes and gives a link to an LA Times article, being one of numerous such articles, that served to cause confusion on the location/s of the campsite and where the body was found.
(ie: “The sheriff said the body was about three-quarters of a mile from and 1,200 feet above the campsite, which was in the creek basin…”)

Page 29 Good commentary & one of randyvs’s posts was removed (copyright restrictions) – but, I abstracted nothing for this aspect of the project.)

(cont'd next post)
edit on 9/10/2014 by WanDash because: "to"

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 12:36 AM
Page 30

seahawkshos040 appears to have been the first to see/hear anything regarding the coroner’s findings (July 1, 2014)…though, with no link.

Said post by seahawkshos040 was followed immediately by request for a link to the source article, by CallmeRaskolnikov…and, in the same post, answers his/her own question with a link to a KTLA5 article that confirmed seahawkshos040’s claim… …and, wherein, the coroner is purported to have reported that Herdman “died accidentally and due to blunt force injuries”…

research100 posted links to two external articles…
The first – – stated that he died of “blunt-force injuries”…and that “Herdman’s injuries were consistent with a fall and his death was ruled an accident”…
Also – “…Chavez said that the condition of Herdman’s body indicated he had been dead for days when he was found but there was no way of knowing exactly when he died…”
Another example of jumbling facts --- --- “His body was found…1,200 feet higher in elevation than the campground where he disappeared. He was three-quarters of a mile by ground from the campsite…”

Next – LA Times Article ----
(**Note that this was published the same day, and only an hour or so later than the previous linked article**)
---- “Mike Herdman…died after falling from a cliff...the Ventura County medical examiner’s office said…”
---- “…Herdman…was found…at the foot of a cliff less than a mile from the campsite where he had disappeared…”
---- “…The body was attired in board shorts and a black T-shirt and was barefoot…”

JackofBlades posted a link to a article date&time stamped only a couple of hours later than the two articles posted by research100…wherein even more information of ‘what happened’ was claimed…
“…Herdman died instantly after falling from a cliff…according to the Ventura County Medical Examiner’s Office…”
“…The injuries were significant enough that when the fall occurred it caused immediate death…”; and
“…He’d fallen off the edge of a mountain or a cliff.”
“…The condition of the body just indicates that he’s been dead for days…We don’t know if it was the day the search began or the day he became separated from his friend…”

~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~

Will continue shortly… ANDMissmissie173, if you would truly care to join the effort, let me (or VoidHawk) know…and, your contribution/s will be genuinely appreciated.

PS: Glad to see the devil didn’t get you on your trip…a while back.

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 02:09 AM
Nothing major...but -
Discussion of the Devil's Gateway (&/or the Devil's Gate) has been anything but boring...especially as it appears to tie in with Paulides' work/s.
I noted in a recent post that my research shows the Devil's Gate a few (quite a few for hikers) miles south of the vicinity where Herdman camped, disappeared and apparently died.
What I didn't know is what is shown in the Google Earth image, below...
Devil's Heart Peak is right in the vicinity where this all took place.

Don't have anymore to add at the moment...but thought you might consider it worth a glance.

ATS Big Pic

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 11:46 AM
a reply to: WanDash

Will continue shortly… AND – Missmissie173, if you would truly care to join the effort, let me (or VoidHawk) know…and, your contribution/s will be genuinely appreciated.

PS: Glad to see the devil didn’t get you on your trip…a while back.

Hi Wan:

I would love to help - none of these type of missing and/or mysterious 411 type stories make sense to me. The only term that I have heard used to describe them that seems appropriate is Sinister.

And. LOL - no "old Scratch" didn't get us this trip, but we did have a few minor dust-ups with his minions!

I will PM ya'll this evening when I get back to the house to receive my "instructions"! heh.

What a treat!

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 04:54 PM
a reply to: Missmissie173

You do realise you're invited as an avid ATS member?

posted on Sep, 10 2014 @ 04:58 PM
a reply to: WanDash

Wandash everybody!

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