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Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

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posted on Aug, 31 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: randyvs
Great!
If I can come out...I will need a day or two in L.A. - to tie up some loose ends on the Michael Hastings mystery.
My schedule, presently, is kind of governed by 2 things:
1. My daughter is getting married in Kansas City...mid-October...which will take most of a week away from any other considerations...and,
2. I am in physical rehabilitation (from a heart attack) that continues to get unexpectedly interrupted...

Who Knows...Maybe I will be able to make it - if you guys can agree on a date.
Do you know if it snows in those mountains...very often?




posted on Aug, 31 2014 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: WanDash

I can do that with every spirit Wan.

As long as they have a membership.


It's a talent you pick up here after a spell.


Oh my Gawd Wan we should get along famously!
I was born in St joe, less than five miles away from
where Jesse James was shot. Alledgedly of course.

So here we go:

all parties intersted in this excursion that will at
the moment as it so appears, will be headed
( Oh what a poor choice of words ) by Void Hawk.
Using my residence as a base, for lack of a better
term. Make yourselves known and I'll send you my
address and phone number in a PM under strict
confidentiality as should be expected.

So chime in if you like.

Further more, I will be taking up this venture
sooner or later anyway, with or with out..

No turning back now.
edit on Rpm83114v39201400000043 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: WanDash

"Oh dirt summoner



LOL
randyvs should put that in his sigy



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
...I was born in St joe, less than five miles away from
where Jesse James was shot. Alledgedly of course.

...

A case I worked (for almost a solid two years) had some interesting (though I presume - incidental) connections with Jesse James & his brother/s...
It was on the border of Missouri and northern Arkansas...
Ahhh - how I wish I would have had the funds to finish that case.
It's the kind of story that gets everybody buzzing...
But - I value my life and the safety of my family...so - it sits on the shelf - perhaps never to be resurrected..



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 01:50 AM
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Might be too early to file in the 411.

Looks like he may have had an accident, slipped. The dog is roaming around.

Hopeful he will be found alive but it looks like he may have died or is trapped under a boulder, needing help.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 02:02 AM
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Just looked at the California Sunshine Law report here: www.thefirstamendment.org...
There is an exclusion for some "investigative reports" according to this document.



Police Incident reports, rap sheets and arrest r e cords are exempt (Penal Code §§ 11075, 11105, 11105.1), but information in the "police blotter" (time and circumstances of calls to p o- lice; name and details of ar rests, warrants, charges, hearing dates, etc.) must be disclosed unless disclosure would endanger an investig a- tion or the life of an investig a tor. Investigative files may be wit h held, even after an investigatio n is over. (Gov. Code § 6254(f ); Williams v. Sup e- rior Ct., 5 Cal. 4th 337 (1993); County of L.A. v. Superior Ct., 18 Cal. App. 4th 588 (1994). Ident i- fying data in police personnel files and misco n- duct co m plaints are exempt, but disclosure may be obtained using special procedures under Ev i- dence Code s e c tion 1043


This link provides further info on what can be exempt: www.rcfp.org...
It includes many cases and is a lot of reading. I scanned it and it appears that it has a bit of latitude about what can be exempted.

I don't know how accessible your Attorney General's office is but ours produces pamphlets that outline the procedures for going about obtaining these records. If you know anyone who works in the media, they might be able to help as well with tips about who to approach. If you have contacts with attorneys who have an interest in Open Records, I've found them to be helpful as well. In our state the group most interested in this is the Democracy Resource Center. I don't know if there is a branch in California or not but you might investigate that as well.

My first stop would be at the Ventura County Sheriff's Dept to ask to view all their records of the investigation of the death. My first attempt would be to just go and ask. If they refuse a polite request, I'd put it in writing and cite the pertinent law, requesting copies of all materials generated during the investigation. If the investigation is closed, it is my understanding that they must provide the materials you request. If they refuse your written request they must cite their reasons (under law) for refusal. The autopsy report should be part of the materials they retained for the investigation.
Good luck and I hope this helps. Wish I were closer because I am really puzzled about several aspects of the case.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 05:44 AM
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I just want to chime in here from the other side of the Atlantic. I've been following this thread all since June, as having just finished the four Missing 411 books made this catch my attention.
What I do appreciate is the visuals and imagery of the area of this case. Hiking around in Scandinavia, the terrain and climate is vastly different and it was a little hard to get a feel for the environment in this part of Southern California. I do applaud the initiative to undertake an expedition; it's really thrilling.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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Wow, this is awesome! I wish I could join you, but being Brazilian makes it a bit too difficult... still, I hope this works out well and I look forward to seeing what you guys will find!



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt


Good job DD, and thank you. I'll look up the sheriffs office
online and use the phone during the week and go from there.
I'll tag you with what I find out.


edit on Rpm90114v242014u19 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: WanDash




Do you know if it snows in those mountains...very often?


Negative on that Wan. It won't start getting cold at night
til october. From there on it's all just guess work.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: [post=18361738]randyvs[/post

can't wait so see what you guys turn up! and be careful!

edit on 1-9-2014 by research100 because: add sentence



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: research100

As it appears Research, I'm not even sure we can be
careful enough. I'm sure we'll do are best if this adventure
gets off the ground.


Ventura County Sheriffs dept records personel Mon-Fri
closed holidays. Today is labor day.

Ph 805 654 2375



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: VoidHawk
Research Project Thoughts...

I am logging & abstracting info from external links presented throughout the thread...
At times I am, likewise reviewing the "video links" on these external webpages...and, at times, on-the-spot-Googling...which turns up other external references not included in this thread...

-- It would be more efficient if someone-else were to log and abstract info from the videos...

I am not reading post by post...
I know there were numerous posts that referenced outside information (such as Facebook pages of other firemen &/or searchers, etc...) without links provided...

-- Identifying the posts, the info, and the source/s...might be of great help.

Gathering/Compiling the data is the first phase.
You/We can certainly annotate, as we go...but any annotations should be identified/highlighted...in some consistent manner (such as *asterisks at the start and end of such notations*, or italics, or colored text...or *some mix of these*).

Following is what I have compiled through the first 7 pages of this thread...to give an idea of how I am approaching it...
Will continue as time allows...



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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First article - www.latimes.com... -
5th day Herdman was 'missing'...

"Footprints and a backpack belong to MH...were found Tuesday..."
"Searchers also found more of Herdman's footprints south of the campsite near a creekbed..."
"Crews were using bloodhounds..."

"...Herdman was barefoot and wearing only shorts and a T-shirt when he ran after the dog when it took off unexpectedly Friday night from their campsite."
"There was no evidence that Herdman returned to the (camp)site since he'd disappeared..."

"About 50 people searching the area...have to be flown in... Herdman &...friend were camping about 15 miles into the forest, an area they were both familiar with."

--------------

1st external update
losangeles.cbslocal.com...
Article date/time: June 18, 2014, 11:00 pm

Posted on ATS by randyvs on 6/19/2014 at 6:46 am, still first page of thread...

S&R believe they spotted the dog...
Crews took MH's wife into the rugged terrain to try and retrieve the dog named Duke, but...were unsuccessful.

"Last Friday night, Herdman, 36, and fellow firefighter/paramedic Taylor Byars hiked to Tar Creek Trail and set up camp along the Sespe Creek when Duke ran away.
"Herdman, who was barefoot and wearing shorts and a T-shirt, along with Byars, ran after the dog
"The two men became separated. Byars eventually made his way back to the campsite, but Herdman...and Duke never returned."

Two more articles from same source...

losangeles.cbslocal.com...
6:24 pm --- appears to be first report from this source on the story...

losangeles.cbslocal.com...
4:31 pm ---

"...Byars searched for Herdman for nearly two days before he made his way out of the wilderness and reported his friend missing Sunday evening...
"...Investigators said there are no signs of foul play.
"We had investigators talk to [Byars], as well ... to go over those details. And everything he's told us has checked out so far," sheriff's Sgt. Eric Buschow said."

"...crews found the encampment with Herdman's belongings still there.
"We located Mr. Herdman's backpack and we also found some footprints indicating his direction of travel down the creek..."


-----------------
Thread Page 2 (no new external updates...though there are external links on a variety of topics, such as rattlesnakes, Los Padres etiquette, etc...)
-----------------
Thread Page 3
-----------------

External link to story of 28,000 marijuana plants removed from Los Padres...
sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com... rey-county-sheriff/

...these confiscations were from "four major illegal grow sites in the national forest"...

External link...
ktla.com...
Article date & time: 6/19/2014, 12:58 pm ... updated on same date at 5:05 pm

This was apparently the fourth (?) day of a search for Herdman...
Duke was apparently spotted, again...but got away...again...
11 special agents with US ICE's Homeland Security Investigations Rapid Response Team...joined the search...

"Herdman...was last seen Friday by (Byars)...after the two ran after...Duke near Sespe Creek... The men had been setting up camp when Duke ran off.
"...Taylor Byars, became separated from Herdman, who had run off barefoot and in shorts and a T-shirt... When Herdman did not return to camp by morning, Byars began to search for him...
"...The pair were on a backpacking trip that began June 11 and were several days into the wilderness.
"Despite his best efforts and after nearly two days of searching, Mr. Byars made his way out of the wilderness...and reported Mr. Herdman's disappearance to the Ventura County Sheriff's Office in Fillmore on Sunday evening,"...

"The search...began Monday morning, based at the trailhead to Tar Creek."
(link to Google map )
34°28'49.1"N 118°55'01.9"W

--------------------
Thread Page 5
--------------------

External link...update
www.nbclosangeles.com...
Dated Friday 6/20/2014 - 9:37 am

...two drones were added to the search effort on Thursday
...Herdman's backpack and footprints were found by his campsite

(video from this link... the footprints were analyzed by the professional trackers, and it appeared that he was walking, not running, at the time they were made... He did not appear to have been favoring either side or leg...which suggested that he was not injured at the time, as well... They also, reportedly said that the footprints appeared to have been made 'over the weekend' ...)

(2nd video from same link -- a team of 9 members camped overnight in the vicinity of the focused search area...hoping to hear or notice something/anything... but, no luck)

--------------
Info from CallmeRaskolnikov's post 2/3 into page 6 of the Thread...

"...They had planned a hike for a couple days starting in the Dough Flat area into Tar Creek trail head..."
"...The...dog...got loose and Herdman began chasing it into the creek bed..."

TopoQuest Map (when searching Dough Flat & Tar Creek...through Google)...
TopoQuest Map - Devil's Heart Peak, CA


--------------------
ATS Thread Page 7
--------------------

External Link - posted by research100 - 6/21/2014 - 2:21 PM
losangeles.cbslocal.com...
Article dated 6/20/2014 - 10:10 pm

...they were hiking Tar Creek Trail...and had set up camp along the Sespe Creek...when...Duke ran away.
Byars "left a pack full of supplies...behind and began walking out of the creek..."
"...Searchers spotted Duke near the creek Wednesday & Thursday..."
"...the dog looked good... ...running all over the place. Mentally he's frazzled because he's not coming to anyone who calls him..."
"The dog has shown up both times...about a mile north to northwest to where their campsite was when Mike was last seen..."

-----------------
(cont'd in next post)
edit on 9/1/2014 by WanDash because: addendum

edit on 9/1/2014 by WanDash because: Google Maps link



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: WanDash
(cont'd from prior post)

External link...Posted on ATS by roadgravel 6/21/2014 @ 3:06 PM
SGVTribune - June 20, 2014

"...Byars stumbled out of the forest dehydrated and disoriented after two days of wandering.
"He found help from two fishermen who frequent a nearby creek.
"...Byars told...deputies that Herdman got lost when he went to chase...Duke, who frequently went along on camp-outs."

"...Duke...is so loyal to Mike, he doesn't leave him."
(odd statement...since, of course, it was, supposedly BECAUSE Duke left Mike, that Mike left the campsite in such a hurry... ??))

----------------------------

External link turned up during Google Search...
Ventura County Search and Rescue - East Valley - Team 3
www.vcsar3.org...
The page has numerous photos taken during the search & rescue effort...most of which were taken during the first few days of search

---------------------------

Hope to make any further updates more readable.



edit on 9/1/2014 by WanDash because: predendum

edit on 9/1/2014 by WanDash because: too much italic



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: VoidHawk
Research Project Thoughts...

I am logging & abstracting info from external links presented throughout the thread...
At times I am, likewise reviewing the "video links" on these external webpages...and, at times, on-the-spot-Googling...which turns up other external references not included in this thread...

-- It would be more efficient if someone-else were to log and abstract info from the videos...

I am not reading post by post...
I know there were numerous posts that referenced outside information (such as Facebook pages of other firemen &/or searchers, etc...) without links provided...

-- Identifying the posts, the info, and the source/s...might be of great help.

Gathering/Compiling the data is the first phase.
You/We can certainly annotate, as we go...but any annotations should be identified/highlighted...in some consistent manner (such as *asterisks at the start and end of such notations*, or italics, or colored text...or *some mix of these*).

Following is what I have compiled through the first 7 pages of this thread...to give an idea of how I am approaching it...
Will continue as time allows...

Fantastic work WanDash

Its my bed time now 4:30 am!!!! but I'll get on it tomorrow. To prevent us each going over the same pages we should post or pm each other with page numbers that we've done?
If there's no update from you then I'll start on page eight tomorrow.

Now I must sleeeeep



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 11:49 PM
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a reply to: WanDash

Do it up guys!!!

This can only be a good thing.



posted on Sep, 2 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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wow, this thread was great to begin with. but, now it's taken quite a serious investigatory turn. amazing.

if you guys wind up really going out there to poke around that would be quite awesome. we can finally know definitively what the geomagnetic anomaly is out there. the so called "spire". whether or not it's a legitimate geographic feature or just a google maps mistake. perhaps it's some sort of energy vortex, who knows.

i do know that David recommends that everyone who goes to areas like this should have

A.) a pistol
B.) a GPS Emergency Beacon
C.) a supply pack. (map, fire-starter etc)

Honestly, I wish I lived in southern california. I would love to go out there with you guys on foot in that area and poke around. Don't really have the expendable cash for a round trip ticket, but I wish you guys the best of luck if you're going out there.

And watch out for those damn venomous snakes!



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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WanDash. I've searched from page eight to page twenty for links. Not many to be found. Have posted anything that might be of interest.

Page 8
Post by roadgravel
LINK
losangeles.cbslocal.com...
"Andrew Pryor, who spoke on behalf of Byars, said Byars knew he couldn’t find Herdman on his own, so he went to get help.
“He left a pack full of supplies for Mike behind and began walking out of the creek. In doing so, he became confused, disoriented and lost himself,” Pryor said."
“They’re literally looking under every rock, they’re scaling huge boulders, cliffs, looking under every tree. It’s a painstaking, tedious task,” Buschow said.
“The terrain is really, really, really tough…because you don’t want to leave anything to pass because it could give a clue or it could be Mike himself,” Reynolds said.


Page 9
Post by roadgravel
The following information is provided for (longitude W118.9, latitude N34.4):


Page 9
Post by WanDash
LINK
ktla.com...
"Herdman, a physically fit paramedic and firefighter from Dana Point who has extensive backcountry experience..."
*I never realised he was also a Paramedic! He was obviously a very smart man, who would know better than to run off into the night.


Page 12
Post by Staroth
LINK
ktla.com...
"Duke (Herdsmans dog) found seven days after Herdman went missing, Duke was found in the parking lot where thir car had been parked."


Page 15
Post by graceunderpressure
*Video showing search and rescue looking for Mike and duke. Shows what the terrain is like!
VID LINK
www.youtube.com...


Page 17
Post by research100
LINK
*After 11 days missing - I find that a little odd, I like to think if I were him I'd be out there looking for my friend.
"Stogner said Arcadia firefighter Taylor Byars, who was hiking with Herdman when he disappeared, had not returned to work and would not be joining in the search."


Page 17
Post by JackofBlades
*I noticed several times while going through the thread that people were asking where the idea that the dog ran off during the night (not day) had come from.
LINK
www.latimes.com...
"Herdman, 36, vanished June 13 during a four-day hike with a fellow firefighter. When his dog, Duke, ran off that night, Herdman gave chase barefoot in only shorts and a T-shirt."


Page 18
Post by seahawkshos040
*seahawkshos040 posted info from a press conference
"body found in place they had searched/flown over several times. found in very rough terrain. 3 quarters of a mile from camp and 1200 feet above where he was last seen. "incredibly" rugged, steep terrain. the "likelihood that someone would hike up a 1200 foot rugged cliff didn't seem possible to us." reporters asking questions in disbelief that he could have made the hike. cop seems dumbfounded. "brush was so thick searchers were slipping." foul play has been ruled out."


Page 19
Post by graceunderpressure
*Herdman found dead.
LINK
losangeles.cbslocal.com...
"It wasn’t until Friday that rescuers happened upon Herdman’s body in an area 1,200 feet above from his campsite.
During a news conference that afternoon, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said a medical examiner was working to determine the cause of death.
“It did not appear he had been trapped. It appeared he was laying over the terrain, partially covered by brush,” Dean said.
“There’s no indication whatsoever that there was foul play involved,” the sheriff said. ""


Page 19
Post by SonoftheSun
*A very odd comment from the sherrif considering Byars was there when they chased after the dog.
VID
LINK
ktla.com...
"“Sadly, nobody but Mike is ever going to know … why he would take off into this kind of terrain, in the dark, in bare feet,” Dean said."


edit on 3-9-2014 by VoidHawk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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If you guys want to do this? I suggest you get your asses in gear.
Because we are look'n at the perfect time of year right now.
I'll pitch a tent right where Herdman and Byars camped out.
Only difference is, I'll be pack'n.


Let's do this!



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