Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Iseestars
I think options instead of restrictions on teachings is the best.
Give the kids an option to chose.

Sure...let kids set the curriculum. What could go wrong?

You obviously are not familiar with common core. I think kids could have chosen a better curriculum than that.

Have you seen the scores of American children? It doesn't matter if a consensus is reached regarding curriculum because the kids don't have the attention spans or motivation any longer anyways and are falling behind and it doesn't have anything to do with religion.

In the end who cares anymore. They are just training a bunch of people useless information that they wont use because the jobs wont be there anyways. Such a waste schools buy ipads to teach useless junk to kids instead of giving them a practical skill. This is why we have a skills gap in this country. Everyone in the last 30-20 years was brought up to think they would be rich and successful college grads. People like boilermakers cant find enough warm bodies to fill the void from the retirees and meanwhile you have in some instances 2-3k people apply for a few jobs all related to computers.

Yeaah!! about time creationism belonged in your Temples,Mosques,Synagogues ,Churches and Shrines,teach it there it is religion masquerading as science

Cute but It ain't true.^^

Dangerous more than anything.No one knows origins of life.Just more proof of the world destroying Jesus Christ,which He prophesized they would do.ALso Creationism in bibilical terms cannot be proven wrong either.Nor can it bs proven correct.I don't know how many times I must tell people th only sceicne that is true sceince is something we actualy observe and constantly learn about.
We never stop learning about science that we cn observe.Theist and atheist are so divisive and polarized they would shoot each other and start a war over the issue.Me being a christian come in and kill me,I will not fight back.Your loss in this crazy world and your gonna be judged.Only way I fight is to protect another human being in danger.


Then they give the laughable time lines of 20 to 30 millions years ago.Excuse me!!! What the hell was going on on the 10 million year gap.Why this stuff is so stupid.The dates are not even accurate.All guessing on a theory that scientist argue over anyways.No one knows if the Big Bang is 100 % certain either.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Have you seen the scores of American children? It doesn't matter if a consensus is reached regarding curriculum because the kids don't have the attention spans or motivation any longer anyways and are falling behind and it doesn't have anything to do with religion.

I don't see the relevance here, this topic is about legislation to prevent religious claims being taught as scientific theories in state funded UK schools.

In the end who cares anymore.

I do. I care very much about the education of young people in the UK, they are our future.

They are just training a bunch of people useless information that they wont use because the jobs wont be there anyways. Such a waste schools buy ipads to teach useless junk to kids instead of giving them a practical skill.

UK schools teach the basics up to age 16, and upon successful completion (in England & Wales) the students receive a General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE) to reflect their achievement. This certificate is influential to employers, apprenticeship providers, and further education colleges. The 16 year old can continue in an academic setting towards a future degree, or start learning a trade such as bricklaying, welding, engineering, and pretty much anything else you can think of. We have pretty good educational/career options for young people to choose from in the UK, if they are motivated to do so. Certainly, in the further education college local to my area there are more students studying vocational qualifications (practical skills) than purely academic subjects.

This is why we have a skills gap in this country. Everyone in the last 30-20 years was brought up to think they would be rich and successful college grads. People like boilermakers cant find enough warm bodies to fill the void from the retirees and meanwhile you have in some instances 2-3k people apply for a few jobs all related to computers.

That may be the case in your country, but there are plenty of options for 16 year olds in the UK to obtain state funded training for pretty much any trade/job you can think of.

So yes, I am more than satisfied with the choices my own son has in the UK education system.
...and on topic, I am very pleased that state funded schools are prohibited from teaching religious creation myths as scientific theories in science classes.

a reply to: Jobeycool
Creation myths are taught in dedicated religious education classes in UK schools. This of course can include all the conflicting creation myths of all religions, not just Christianity.

Science, and evidence based scientific theories are taught in science lessons. Religious creation myths are not allowed to be dishonestly taught as a scientific theory.

Which bit of that do you disagree with exactly?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Jobeycool
Creation myths are taught in dedicated religious education classes in UK schools. This of course can include all the conflicting creation myths of all religions, not just Christianity.

Science, and evidence based scientific theories are taught in science lessons. Religious creation myths are not allowed to be dishonestly taught as a scientific theory.

Which bit of that do you disagree with exactly?

Thats because the crazed government took over schools and announced science without observation as facts.This world is so stupid it is incredible.Ya know the teachers and scientist make massive profit and money and become millionaires off of evolution.What ya know the governments sticks their nose into schools and ruins freedom of choice once again.This stuff is all to happen anyways.
The governments world wide will start doing this and I Imagine the next step is to kill off creationist and make them look harmful and evil to the world.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
What ya know the governments sticks their nose into schools and ruins freedom of choice once again.

Nope, you are incorrect.
The recent introduction of 'academy' and 'free schools' in the UK created a situation where communities, businesses and/or faith organisations could open new schools and receive funding from the state to cover operating costs.
Faith organisations apply for this funding and as in any contract there are restrictions on how the school operates. There is no obligation to ask the government for funds to run a school, and faith groups are free to open their own non-state-funded schools if they wish. Freedom of choice still exists. A faith school can teach whatever rubbish they like to kids if they fund it themselves, but if they want funding from the state they cannot teach creation myths as scientific theory in science lessons.
I think your stance regarding this policy is a bit dramatic and overly emotional.

a reply to: Jobeycool

Freedom of choice? What that really means? Freedom to stupify all kids with biblical non-sense?

You already have choice to teach your kids all you want at home or in Sunday class... Creationism is not science - it is religious belief system - it is not something that should be even given as an option.

As for education in USA, politicians and religious nuts are making it fight for survival, but there is still hope... for example state I live in is trying to push to provide all kids with earlier education, as all statistics shows that kids who start with preschool do better in life then those who don't.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

No I am exactly correct. Creationism has never been taught in any way shape or form for the last 40 years in any government funded state school myself, my children or my friends or their children have attended.

Instead of 'picky' read pedantic and semantics then.

Goodnight....

exactly, I was never taught creationism, my kids ranging from 45 to 26 were never taught creationism in school.

who here was taught creationism in public school?

a reply to: SuperFrog

I was never taught the Bible in the public school system, don't remember prayer, only remember the pledge.

a reply to: Jobeycool

kill off creationist and make them look harmful and evil to the world.

That has been done.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Jobeycool

kill off creationist and make them look harmful and evil to the world.

That has been done.

Really? Where?

I know of many cases where geocentrist and creationist have tortured and killed everyone who disagreed with bible and their teachings, but I never heard of anyone being killed for creationist belief.

After all, why kill when you can simply just educate...

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
I was never taught creationism, my kids ranging from 45 to 26 were never taught creationism in school.

who here was taught creationism in public school?

Well if we're going down the anecdotal evidence road I'll share my own:
I was taught about the creationist beliefs of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and even Sikhism in a UK state funded school. I was taught about all the major belief systems, from Abrahamic to Zoroastrianism, in my dedicated 'Religious Education classes which are part of the national curriculum.

My son has just finished state school and is soon to be starting college. He received 'awareness' education of ALL major faiths and their various major beliefs in his dedicated 'Philosophy and applied ethics' classes. He has never been to any church in his life and learned about the Christian talking snake, Adam/Eve made from a rib blah etc at school.
He also had full understanding about the Sunni/Shia split in Islam so with this recent ISIS thing actually knew more about the history than I did.

I'm surprised that anyone in the UK says they have had no awareness religious education including the Genesis story, because Religious education is part of the national curriculum.
I agree that religious education should continue as part of the national curriculum, it provides for greater understanding, in a secular country where people believe all manner of conflicting dogma.
...and I personally don't believe in any gods/spirits/souls/whatever, but it is good to have an awareness of what other people do.

a reply to: crazyewok

Ironic...

a reply to: grainofsand

Yes well the nearly 20% (18.5) unemployment rate for youth 16-24 in the UK says otherwise.

853,000 young people aged 16-24 were unemployed in February to April 2014, down 59,000 on the previous quarter and down 98,000 on the previous year. The unemployment rate (the proportion of the economically active population who are unemployed) for 16-24 year olds was 18.5%, down 1.3 percentage points from the previous quarter and down 2.0 percentage points from the previous year.

Youth unemployment statistics - Commons Library Standard Note

College graduates faring no better it seems.

"The pre-recession rates of underemployment of graduate skills in the UK economy were already disappointing – the post-recession rates represent an alarming jump in underemployment and a massive waste of investment in skills," said John Philpott, director of The Jobs Economist consultancy. "These figures further highlight the plight of young people in the jobs market at present. The fact that the unemployment rate for recent graduates (9%) is much lower than that for non-graduates is due simply to the fact that almost half of those who have recently gained higher education qualifications are entering jobs for which they are over qualified, which makes it even harder for the less qualified to find work."

Half of recent UK graduates stuck in non-graduate jobs, says ONS

Clearly more theoretical science is the answer. Good thing you people are focusing on the big issues like creationism. Hey at least your grads don't end up with the type of debt that US students do.

a reply to: NihilistSanta
Why are you pulling irrelevant youth and graduate unemployment rates out in reply to my assertion that free further education and training options are available for all young people in every local authority throughout the UK.
Every 16-24 year old is entitled to a free further education course (with subsidised/free bus/train travel if too far to walk and on a low income) ranging between plastering/bricklaying to pure academic subjects, to even fine art.
My assertion still stands, the opportunities are there for any young person who is motivated.

Unemployment is a much more complex issue, especially with annual net migration of workers from eastern Europe running at 100,000+ over the last few years. Your reply does not provide anything to present a case that further education opportunities are not as freely available as I stated.

As far as your silly comment below is concerned...

Clearly more theoretical science is the answer. Good thing you people are focusing on the big issues like creationism.

There is no 'focus' on creationism as a big issue, it has just been enshrined in law that state funded schools cannot teach creationism as a scientific theory. Do you disagree with that?

Now, instead of bringing irrelevant unemployment figures to the table, unless you can provide any evidence to show that UK young people do not have easy access to free further education for vocational trades or academic study as I asserted, my statement still stands. Unemployment is a different issue, and to be fair, we are both drifting way off-topic so apologies to the OP.

so happy someone is coming to their senses a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Just what people need, another state imposed religion in the form of darwinism. Death to the heretics!

a reply to: grainofsand
You were taught all that?
Our system is sorely lacking in comparison.