Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

a reply to: Unity_99

Creationism is just a theory evolution is a Scientific Theory.

See my signature for clarification. I got tired of explaining the significant differences between the two to people repeatedly. Only to have them ignore reality.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Snarl
I've looked ... and for the life of me, I've never been able to see definitive evolutionary change "from one species to another."

Probably because of a fundamental misunderstanding about how evolution works.

It isn't the case of a dinosaur giving birth to a chicken one day - the process is gradual and for every fossil we find and place in the evolutionary tree, there are many more animals between them we will never find showing the gradual changes, although you can often find fossils of animals that are clearly closely related.

The simplest way to describe evolution to anyone is this:

Imagine you have a cactus. It's in the desert, minding it's own business living off the seasonal rains. One day, through whatever means it is Cacti reproduce, it disperses it's seeds.

Now, owing to errors in copying DNA, some of those seeds will be genetically different from their parent. Some will hold water better, some will hold it less.

Then the climate changes - the rains become less frequent. Now, those Cacti that don't hold enough water perish, those that hold more water thrive. This is natural selection.

Over the course of generations, more and more genetic mutations are introduced - some may affect the spines, some may affect the colouring, others may affect the size of the flowers. Owing to the prevailing conditions (rain, insects, herbivores etc) those with the right mutations will survive, while those who are poorly adapted will perish.

Eventually, after many generations, you will have a Cactus that is quite different from it's ancestor at the beginning of the story and is actually an entirely different species adapted to it's environment.

The same works for animals.

Sounds like magic. And why are there still monkeys if we evolved from monkeys!!!!

*note purely tongue in cheek argument to highlight your post will fall on deaf ears, no matter how well you described the process !!

originally posted by: Unity_99
Well, it doesnt really matter what the schools teach, though alternative theories would be more appropriate because evolution as defined is just a theory. It has a lot of holes.

You know about astronomy or astrophysics, right?

So, astronomy also has "many holes" and unanswered questions, A TON actually. This is in fact what astronomy/astrophysics are all about, to find the answers to those questions, to increase our knowledge.

But no one would come up with the idea to completely REPLACE astronomy with something entirely different because it turns out modern astronomy/astrophysics still hasn't found the answer to, say, "dark matter" or how fast galaxies formed at the beginning of the universe. Even if LOTS of former knowledge in astronomy would be entirely revised, as we do right now with realizing that there are more habitable stars than we initially thought, things like that, IT'S STILL ASTRONOMY.

You either choose the scientific approach or you do not. There IS no equal alternative which can "replace" (or 'compete' with evolution), at least not in school. In the same way as there is no requirement for a competing new science to Astronomy. Evolution is NOT based on faith, it's still (and above all) based on observation & discovery...it's a conclusion/theory based on THAT, not based on faith alone. Belief systems that are based on faith are not taught in schools, they're taught in churches.

originally posted by: Verum1quaere
um, you guys, "theory of evolution" is a RElIGION...

I had no idea the world was still this backward.

We should have so much more understanding, yet we still wallow in utter ignorance.

failing to grasp the concept of the theory of evolution, and making statements like that? just smh..

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

No, but it should be theories, and lots of them, and students putting on thinking caps. Not just one theory or concept.

a reply to: sn0rch

Threads like this remind me of the movie "Idiocracy".

...sigh...

originally posted by: Unity_99
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

No, but it should be theories, and lots of them, and students putting on thinking caps. Not just one theory or concept.

Which kind of theories? Are you talking about actual evidence based scientific theories or dumb dope head layman theories?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

The world is a whole lot older than the Bible tells us so. And to be fair I don't want my children being fed a load of creationist garbage that alludes her being only 6000 years old and created in 6 days with some omnipotent being having to rest on the 7th(Why rest when your omnipotent?).

That being said if they wish to pursue the more conventional evolutionary interpretation then they should also point out its shortcomings, of which there are many.

Best approach I imagine is probably to teach our kids that we most lightly came about due to the processes of evolution but that we really dont have a clue as to how evolution functions or even progresses in the grand scheme of things.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Praise the Lord.
It is about damned time.

a reply to: Loveaduck

Well if the dude would have the common decency to turn up on time, around the turn of the millennium i imagine. Thus prove his/her/its existence I imagine praise of such would be a whole lot easier to give.

a reply to: Verum1quaere

Please don't quote Michael Hoffman here. The man's a racist, anti-Semitic, nutjob of the first order.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Loveaduck

Well of the dude would have the common decency to turn up on time, around the turn of the millennium i imagine. Thus prove his/her/its existence I imagine praise of such would be a whole lot easier to give.

Speak for yourself. He lived and I believe what He said.
I'll praise whoever the heck I want to. But not in school and I don't expect (demand or require) anyone else to follow suit. In the end, it is my business, if I choose to live in ignorance... aint it?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

Good.

a reply to: Loveaduck

"Speak for yourself. He lived and I believe what He said."

Prove it without the use of a fictional book written and edited by tyrants and sycophants aka Man.

"I'll praise whoever the heck I want to. But not in school and I don't expect (demand or require) anyone else to follow suit. In the end, it is my business, if I choose to live in ignorance... aint it?"

You are free to believe whatever you choose for the time being anyway. Hopefully this will remain the case. I would not call Christianity ignorance per say any more than the other organised religions considering it/they probably contain at least some measure of truth along with all the lies and human injustices that they promote. That's how control constructs operate. After all lies are a whole lot easier to swallow when they also contain a measure of truth.

a reply to: andy06shake


Try looking into Biblical Archeological studies and then tell me the entire Book is a lie. Jesus was a man that walked the Earth and tried to bring compassion, love, tolerance and forgiveness to a brutal humanity that was reliant on Old Testament dictum's. My father desires compassion and not a sacrifice. It isn't hard to figure. This is the way people should live with each other because tolerance and love is the only plan that's WORKABLE. People who already have their minds made up, believe what they want.

Mastering the "quote" feature here, would not hurt you either.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Creationism has never, IMO, rejected the scientific theory of evolution. Creationism deals with ORIGINS....evolution does not...they are 2 entirely separate things from my understanding....but then again, I may be a [snip]tard just like the rest of them...who knows...

One of the central 'doctrines' of creationism is that G-d created everything just as it is now. Everything was perfectly made just as He/She intended right from the start. If that is so, then there is no such thing as evolution since evolution is 'change over time' and there is no change, only permanent perfection.

You are correct that the scientific study of origins is different from the scientific study of evolution. You can study how things change without examining how those things came into existence. You can study the changing Cosmos (Cosmological Evolution)without understanding the big bang; you can study plate tectonics and vulcanism (aspects of Geological Evoluion) without understanding how the Earth was formed; you can study biological change (Biological Evolution) with out understanding abiogenesis.

Eventually the study of of those changes lead you back in time to the origin of the Cosmos, or the Earth, or Life. But figuring out how things got started is hard, really hard. That doesn't mean impossible, and it doesn't mean you have to stop studying the life cycle of stars, or river channels, or butterflies until you figure out how they got started.

And that is what Creationism means: "G-d did it all, that is all you need to know, you can stop studying it now".

a reply to: Loveaduck

"Try looking into Biblical Archeological studies and then tell me the entire Book is a lie."

Im not claiming the entirety of the Bible is a lie. I am however in dispute as to it containing the word of God rather than that of Man.

"Jesus was a man that walked the Earth and tried to bring compassion, love, tolerance and forgiveness to a brutal humanity that was reliant on Old Testament dictum's."

There is no actual physical evidence to support that he ever walked our earth archaeological or otherwise. Or if he did exist was anything other than a Man. No tomb or grave or body, those would indeed support your believe yet you cannot provide such evidence anymore than the rest of Humanity can.

"My father desires compassion and not a sacrifice. It isn't hard to figure."

Why does any omnipotent being require anything from Man never mind compassion or sacrifice? If he/she/it desires such it would simply be made manifest, no need for our compliance or even awareness considering the omnipotence of said God.

"This is the way people should live with each other because tolerance and love is the only plan that's WORKABLE."

I could not agree more, but i dont need organised religion to tell me so, just common sense.

"People who already have their minds made up, believe what they want."

I would argue that people who subscribe or are exposed to religious dogma at an early age seldom retain the ability to question or challenge their belief system. Hence the reason why we should not expose or children to such notions in our Schools which i see you also agree with.

originally posted by: wayforward
If a community would like to teach their children that the Earth if flat as science, well that is up to them. Not up to some bureaucrat 2,000 miles away. It is simple human nature that the people who care about a child most are its parents and then the surrounding community. People 2,000 miles away simple don't care as much. So, why are they being given the authority over the local community?

Lol, just spotted your post, which country do you think we're talking about in this thread? There is nowhere in Britain that is 2000 miles away from Parliament, more like 650 miles.
Oh, and communities can teach whatever rubbish they like in private schools they are still free to set up for themselves, they just won't get state funding to run it if they do not agree a contract to teach the national curriculum. What possible problem with liberty and freedom can you see with that?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

America should do the same or else our ‘D..mbd-down’ education will make us the low-wage labor pool of the globe.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul


I've looked ... and for the life of me, I've never been able to see definitive evolutionary change "from one species to another."

Are you serious? Evolution takes tens of thousands of years and even then the changes are so subtle that humanity wouldn't notice. Evidence of evolution: cow milk is drank by humans throughout the world, but when we first started drinking it, it poisoned us. That's why there are still some lactose intolerant humans; they are still poisoned by it but a majority of humans have evolved to tolerate it. Need more evidence just go visit the Amazon rainforest, it has an immense amount of life that have evolved specifically to match their locale. Even nature evolves. In the Amazon there are Cordyceps fungi (www.youtube.com...) that are unique to each and every species of ant, meaning no one species can dominate the habitat. Then the world's largest freshwater lake in Siberia (www.natgeotv.com...) is where you can find the ONLY freshwater seal in the world. How on earth can you say evolution doesn't exist? Humans live for 80 years so of course you will never witness evolution. Swine flu, avain flu were exclusively animal diseases and they evolved to human hosts. We do witness viruses evolve and adapt and mutate, so you can witness it with your own eyes if you become a microbiologist...