Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

originally posted by: Vovin The latest claim is a British SAS Major Wilkes found injured. He was apparently there officially as a military advisor for the junta.

Now if it's true that officers from NATO countries are directing ground battles, then it really begs the question as to why Ukraine has attacked Russian border crossings lately. Is it to provoke a response?

Well assuming this isn't just another hoax picture (like the UN marked helicopters), this report suggests that far from being injured he was just sleeping off a couple of beers or three in Kiev

www.liveleak.com...

It also points out that he is an ex-SAS major and now a PMC - which I assume means private military consultant, which last I knew is a common and perfectly legal occupation for a former soldier? It certainly does not mean NATO officers are directing ground battles in Donbass.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Still calling the whole of Ukraine gov't nazi's and facist I see.

From the word "go", the myth was propagated that Ukrainians were all Nazis and some people still want to believe it, even when faced with the facts. As has happened already in this thread, the posting of a "proof" is often an old photo of some right wing, neo Nazi demonstration. Even the OP refers to the Ukrainians as Nazguards!

However, the only Neo Nazi's I can see are those populating and leading the ranks of the pro Russian separatists and the Ukrainian government is not run by fascists.

Still seen no evidence of Ukrainian authorities commencing ethnic cleansing though. Certainly, nothing shown in this thread to support the OP. However, evidence seems to be emerging that the pro Russian separatists are the ones doing the terrorising and cleansing, as indicated in the following post.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

www.ohchr.org...

Regards

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: Vovin

I saw a Vice Russian Roulet report a few days ago where they followed a guy delivering a shipment of surplus British uniforms to the Ukranian front. I don't discount the remote possibility that it could be a picture of exactly what you claim, but it strikes me that he could just be a guy in one of aforementioned surplus British uniforms supplied to the Ukranians.

First of all, I did not claim it. My post is clear on that.

Second of all, that would not only be incredibly retarded for Ukrainian forces to wear British insignia in a civil war, but it would probably be a war crime. Not only that, but the UK would be going insane right now.

Third, I only posted a picture that was part of an unverified report. The rest of the report describes the identification that was allegedly pulled out of his pockets.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: cosmonova

Move to Russia? Why would they, they are on their land. Novorossiya to be precise.

And their land is located where... in Ukraine?

And maybe you can point out exactly where Novorossiya is here on this map of Ukraine,because for the life of me I can't find it anywhere.

And why does the so called flag of Novorossiya look familiar?

Put you some stars on it and we have this...

And we know through history what happened to those who flew this flag.

Try to find Kurdistan on a map and tell a Kurd that it's not on there. You do know there's a lot more to geography than cartography, right?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

In fact, the rebels have easily identified the junta's forces as fascist neo-Nazis and portray themselves as the Soviet resistance that eventually smashed the fascists before. They even found a stash of a lot of soviet armour, which made them feel even more like the Soviets fighting the west and its fascist puppets.

Still calling the whole of Ukraine gov't nazi's and facist I see.

Hey wait isn't the Donetsk Republic leader associated with a Russian neo nazi group, so by your logic he is exactly what you keep calling the Ukraine gov't.

Also wouldn't that make Russia the same because some of it's ethnic Russians living in Ukraine have the neo nazi ideology?

That is if we go by your way of thinking. Ironic isn't it that a neo nazi is running things for Russia in Ukraine.

Thanks for your opinion, troll. I seem to have to read it after almost every post I make regarding Ukraine.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: Vovin The latest claim is a British SAS Major Wilkes found injured. He was apparently there officially as a military advisor for the junta.

Now if it's true that officers from NATO countries are directing ground battles, then it really begs the question as to why Ukraine has attacked Russian border crossings lately. Is it to provoke a response?

Well assuming this isn't just another hoax picture (like the UN marked helicopters), this report suggests that far from being injured he was just sleeping off a couple of beers or three in Kiev

www.liveleak.com...

It also points out that he is an ex-SAS major and now a PMC - which I assume means private military consultant, which last I knew is a common and perfectly legal occupation for a former soldier? It certainly does not mean NATO officers are directing ground battles in Donbass.

And this is exactly what the rebels said in their statement.

So maybe you can explain why ex-SAS mercenaries are wearing Ukrainian uniforms with British insignia in Ukraine? Maybe it's the same reason why Lithuanian convicts and Polish mercs are right alongside National Guard soldiers in Slavyansk?


Oh and by the way, what hoax came out of the Ukraine flying Hinds in UN colours? It was legit video taken from locals.

If you want to see hoaxes then go watch Kiev news media. They just aired footage from some "World of Tanks" game event with real tanks, claiming it was evidence of Russians giving tanks to the rebels.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Still calling the whole of Ukraine gov't nazi's and facist I see.

From the word "go", the myth was propagated that Ukrainians were all Nazis and some people still want to believe it, even when faced with the facts. As has happened already in this thread, the posting of a "proof" is often an old photo of some right wing, neo Nazi demonstration. Even the OP refers to the Ukrainians as Nazguards!

However, the only Neo Nazi's I can see are those populating and leading the ranks of the pro Russian separatists and the Ukrainian government is not run by fascists.

Still seen no evidence of Ukrainian authorities commencing ethnic cleansing though. Certainly, nothing shown in this thread to support the OP. However, evidence seems to be emerging that the pro Russian separatists are the ones doing the terrorising and cleansing, as indicated in the following post.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

www.ohchr.org...

Regards

I am getting sick of you people and your pathetic lies. Obviously all Ukrainians are not Nazis or fascist. Obviously we are not referring to all Ukrainians. Stop accusing us of making these blanket statements when you damn well know who we are referring too.

(Sorry for all the multiple posts, but I'm using mobile)

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Still calling the whole of Ukraine gov't nazi's and facist I see.

From the word "go", the myth was propagated that Ukrainians were all Nazis and some people still want to believe it, even when faced with the facts. As has happened already in this thread, the posting of a "proof" is often an old photo of some right wing, neo Nazi demonstration. Even the OP refers to the Ukrainians as Nazguards!

However, the only Neo Nazi's I can see are those populating and leading the ranks of the pro Russian separatists and the Ukrainian government is not run by fascists.

Still seen no evidence of Ukrainian authorities commencing ethnic cleansing though. Certainly, nothing shown in this thread to support the OP. However, evidence seems to be emerging that the pro Russian separatists are the ones doing the terrorising and cleansing, as indicated in the following post.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

www.ohchr.org...


Regards

No evidence? I see you are still avoiding to see Vice News report from Slavyansk area.
That is evidence of deliberate destruction of residential areas in order to terrorise and intimidate local
population and force them to leave the place so this can be done in a future:

Land parcels will be given out for free to the servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and other military formations, as well as to the employees of Interior Ministry and the Security Service of Ukraine that are defending territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine.

ethnic cleansing
noun
the elimination of an unwanted ethnic group or groups from a society, as by genocide or forced emigration.

originally posted by: cosmonova
No evidence? I see you are still avoiding to see Vice News report from Slavyansk area.
That is evidence of deliberate destruction of residential areas in order to terrorise and intimidate local population and force them to leave the place so this can be done in a future:

Sorry, but all I have seen is some serious damage caused by military action. While I have real sympathy for people caught up in this, the fact remains that there is no evidence of a systematic attempt by the Ukrainian authorities to ethnically cleanse. If you base your worldview on a bias video without questioning the content or the motives, or what is not reported, then that's fine.

Regards

a reply to: Vovin

Thanks for your opinion, troll. I seem to have to read it after almost every post I make regarding Ukraine.

Then please provide the evidence the whole Ukraine gov't are facist neo nazi's since you like to call them that. You see your making a claim that has yet to be shown true.

Also know that sweet talking will get you nowhere.

originally posted by: Vovin
Oh and by the way, what hoax came out of the Ukraine flying Hinds in UN colours? It was legit video taken from locals.

See the UN report which has been linked in this thread and in a separate thread here

"The report lists a number of examples of photographs and videos being misused for propaganda purposes, including a photograph of a wounded child in Aleppo, Syria, who was presented as a victim of fighting at the Donetsk airport; and a video of Ukrainian helicopters with UN symbols which were filmed earlier and elsewhere and were not, as claimed in the video, being used in the current fighting in Ukraine."

Well now this is interesting...

Russian news agency RIA Novosti is reporting the Crimea government is asking Crimean Tatars, who only make up 15% of the population, to vacate their land and move to assigned lands. Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliyev said the government wants to regulate the lands.

“We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs,” Temirgaliyev said. “But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars,” he said.

www.breitbart.com...

So now this qualifies as ethnic cleansing at it's finest.

ethnic cleansing noun
: the practice of removing or killing people who belong to an ethnic group that is different from the ruling group in a country or region

www.merriam-webster.com...

And please remember that Crimea is now part of Russia again, so I guess Russia should be held responsible for what Crimea is doing to the Tartars.

a reply to: lightedhype

This is starting to remind me of the 1992-1995 Bosnian War. Electricity gone. Not sure what other resources those in Eastern Ukraine are lacking.

Eventually they will be fighting each other for basic necessities. If they were smart they would band together, not fight each other, and make a push. Then again, it could be the Nazguard are hoping to push any survivors into Russia.

originally posted by: cosmonova

No evidence? I see you are still avoiding to see Vice News report from Slavyansk area.
That is evidence of deliberate destruction of residential areas in order to terrorise and intimidate local
population and force them to leave the place so this can be done in a future:

Land parcels will be given out for free to the servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and other military formations, as well as to the employees of Interior Ministry and the Security Service of Ukraine that are defending territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine.

"deliberate destruction of residential areas in order to terrorise and intimidate local population and force them to leave the place so this can be done in a future" is pure speculation and in my opinion does not make much sense - who would want a ruined apartment in a town? Whether the latter suggestion of giving land parcels out is true I do not know. Nor do I know whether in eventuality such land parcels will indeed be given out, nor where in the whole of Ukraine they might be.

But the UN do report on "... the breakdown of law and order in the areas held by armed groups in the east of the country – with increasing evidence of abductions, detentions, torture, and killings" and that "As well as fleeing random violence and deteriorating economic and social conditions, some displaced people interviewed cited “targeted attacks and intimidation of activists, and increasingly of ‘ordinary’ residents, known for their ‘Pro-Ukrainian’ stance.”

I prefer to rely on the UN than biased local media.

a reply to: Vovin

I am getting sick of you people and your pathetic lies.

Care to elaborate a bit more as to who you people are, and what lies would those be?

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: Vovin
Oh and by the way, what hoax came out of the Ukraine flying Hinds in UN colours? It was legit video taken from locals.

See the UN report which has been linked in this thread and in a separate thread here

"The report lists a number of examples of photographs and videos being misused for propaganda purposes, including a photograph of a wounded child in Aleppo, Syria, who was presented as a victim of fighting at the Donetsk airport; and a video of Ukrainian helicopters with UN symbols which were filmed earlier and elsewhere and were not, as claimed in the video, being used in the current fighting in Ukraine."

The UN report is garbage. There is clear evidence of warcrimes, yet the report whitewashes this in favour of Western democracy.

Explain to me why Kiev's forces cannot just roll right into these cities and be treated like liberators? Because surely this would be possible if this was the will of the people there, right?

Instead, Kiev's forces bombard these rebel towns and cities with artillery and air strikes, and have already killed hundreds of civilians. They target hospitals, schools, industrial businesses, residential districts. Assassination attempts have been made on leaders of the rebel regions.

Refugees are fleeing by the thousands to Russia while Ukraine government spokeswoman Psaki thinks that refugees are fleeing Russia into Ukraine.

If the rebels are so dangerous then why is it that Kiev is assaulting them on their own land? Why aren't these so-called terrorists waging war across the country?

a reply to: Vovin

Still trolling?

Flattery will get you nowhere.

I guess you still aren't going to provide any evidence that the whole Ukraine gov't are neo Nazi Facists?

It's amazing that you throw out the accusations of them being neo Nazi Facist, but when asked for some proof you resort to the good ol troll reply...Classic.

Also why haven't you said anything about Crimea's blatant ethnic cleansing of the Tartars, or is it okay because Russia is doing it?

And yes I said Russia as they now are supposed to have control of Crimea, so what about that?

a reply to: Vovin

Explain to me why Kiev's forces cannot just roll right into these cities and be treated like liberators? Because surely this would be possible if this was the will of the people there, right?

And explain to me why Russia has to keep this farce for Eastern Ukraine up?

Again this wasn't happening before the old hornet nest shake and run tactic Putin is using.

a reply to: Vovin

Instead, Kiev's forces bombard these rebel towns and cities with artillery and air strikes, and have already killed hundreds of civilians. They target hospitals, schools, industrial businesses, residential districts. Assassination attempts have been made on leaders of the rebel regions.

Well that is because that is where separatists are trying to hide so they can use the human shield defense.

So let me get this right...you think Ukraine should just let Russia intrude on their country with foreign fighters and military hardware and have not have a response for such actions?

So now tell me something...Would Russia allow this to happen in their country?