CA pastor orders Christians to ‘isolate’ LGBT kids and then ‘turn them over to Satan’

a reply to: TrueBrit

But Paul himself handed people over to satan. He's wasn't God.

That is the point I am trying to make. A man of God, follower of Jesus handed people over to satan because of sin.

True, that God is and will be the Only Judge. I fully agree!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Matthew 18 is where this particular outlook comes from Brit...specifically verses 15-17....(and Paul deals with this also later on in Corinthians)

“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Does seem an awful lot to me like Jesus is handing his disciples a wee bit of authority on judging members of the congregation here....

We're told to judge our own...but not anyone outside of our own....

We are not to judge anyone who does not confess Christ as Lord...per 1Cor 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"

We may not be sinless...but we are justified through Christ...and Christ gives us the authority to correct our brother and sister if need be...Although I don't agree with this method of correction...nor should any other scripture-learned believer...

A2D

originally posted by: KaelemJames


God Himself handed Job over to Satan. Paul suffered from "a thorn in his side. Jesus a Himself was tempted by satan. It is to overcome evil. To make one stronger.

God didn't hand Job over to make him stronger. He had a bet with Satan over whether or not Job would break from loss and curse God for it. After a lifetime of service to the lord the lord took everything away from him and cursed him with boils and suffering. Then when he finally was broken down enough and asked God why he had done this to him, God told him "How dare you challenge my reasons for doing what I do." Ya, because a friendly bet with Satan on what it takes to break a man is a very Noble thing. So noble not even God wanted to admit what he'd done to him.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Just out of curiosity, TruBrit, how do you deal with Paul in 1 Corinthians 5: 10-12:

…10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?…

I love how these liberal watchdog groups stitch together bits and pieces of someone's words to make them seem as horrible as they possibly can. What's more amusing is all of you gullible bigots who are so eager to lap it up. I'm sure the next big thing in political correctness will be "reverse - bigotry". Lol you folks are silly. (spoken from my self righteous high horse of course)

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Although I don't agree with this method of correction...nor should any other scripture-learned believer...

Why not?

a reply to: imwilliam

Because love covers a multitude of sins.
If we love our brothers and sisters in Christ...we will forgive them as Christ forgave us...
Which begs the question..."what is forgiveness"...and in this sense...
Forgiveness would be defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, and ceasing to demand punishment or restitution

When we forgive, we forfeit our right to judge our brother...and put the problem in the more capable and understanding hands of Christ...

A2D

I could understand this pastor's statements if he was in the World Wide Church of Satan out there in California.

I could imagine Anton LeVey himself, may he burn in hell (a compliment), saying such words to lead young people to his flock.

I hope this pastor's flock understand which team this guy is really on.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

A2D, so you don't see how someone could ostracize someone, as Paul directs, as a matter of obedience to God, without any malice in their heart? Perhaps even with a deep sadness and love?

I can certainly see someone seizing on to what Paul has said and acting on it with malice and hatred, but I don't think those motives necessarily need to be present for someone to act on Paul's instructions.

I can see it being done with sadness, reluctance and love. I can imagine it being done even if you've forgiven someone and plan on continuing to forgive them.

As a slight aside, I'd be interested in how this compares to the psychological concept of "enabling".

a reply to: imwilliam

Please be specific.

In what context do you refer to that bible passage? Or rather, if you would care to frame your query with more focus on what it is that I do, that pertains to it, and how I square that with myself, I would be happy to answer your question!

a reply to: imwilliam

I CAN see how someone could do it without any malice....but...again...I like to revert back to the now cliche "What would Jesus do?"...


A classic example is provided in Matthew 8.
A Roman soldier asked Jesus to heal his "pais." (Greek term often used in ancient times to refer to a servant who was his master's same-sex partner)
Jesus was immediately compassionate and spoke no words of exclusion or condemnation....he simply said, "I will come and heal him."

A2D

a reply to: LABTECH767

For the last time: A sin is a sin is a sin. If they profess faith in Jesus, and are saved, they are just as hellbound as you are for eating bacon and shellfish. There is no difference.

#knowyourownbeliefsystem

a reply to: TrueBrit


Hey Trubrit,

In what context do you refer to that bible passage? Or rather, if you would care to frame your query with more focus on what it is that I do, that pertains to it, and how I square that with myself, I would be happy to answer your question!

I'm specifically interested in how you harmonize what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 5: 10 -12 with your statement, which I've quoted just below:

I am not picking and choosing. It is GOD and God alone who has place to judge us. No mortal has that right, and to establish candidates for being abandoned to Satan, or given to him, it is necessary for human to judge human, and we are instructed are we not "judge not, lest ye be judged"?

No one on this planet is free enough from sin to cast such stones at another.

Perhaps you don't feel the need to harmonize them, if that's the case and you don't mind, I'd be curious to know why.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Instead they should pray for them and forgive them ...

Being homosexual isn't something that needs being forgiven ....

Being ANYTHING isn't something that needs to be forgiven ....

Even those who believe in fairy tale religions ....

a reply to: imwilliam

Jesus was perfect. Even he only really flipped his top and got judgemental in a serious fashion, when people were trading in his fathers house, in temple. He mixed with everyone from prostitutes to bandits, from gamblers to taxmen, who were the vermin of the time, arguably more so than they are considered today. He even mixed with lepers for goodness sake!

I am flawed, and in no position to cast real judgement on anyone. So I must be far more restrained. And I fail, even at this small thing. That is not because I love God any less than I should, but because I am not perfect, I am mortal, and as prone to sin as the next person. It is for this reason, that I spend my time around all manner of people, atheists, agnostics, the many flavours of hippies and Earth children, as well as people who live alternative lifestyles with regard to their sexual preference. It is not my job to judge these people, since I am unfit to do so, and if I treat them any differently than I treat anyone else, that is judgement. I am not qualified for that. No one is.

But it is my duty to love them, respect their exercising of their free will, and to pray like a champion, that when the ball drops on this world for the last time, that by some means they find their way to Jesus side, and for that matter, that I do. You see, I screw up all the time. My sins might be different than someone else's, but sins they remain, and I will one day be judged on the balance of my sins. All any one of us on this planet has to save us, is the gift of repentance, and I hope to God we all get a fair chance to use that gift because if not, as heterosexual as my preferences are, I will be just as much for the fire as the next fellow, despite my love for Jesus, and all my efforts to do my damnedest to do as Jesus would have done.

Does that answer your question?

Clueless "Christians" often get the old testament mixed up with the teachings of Christ. Might as well keep your women folk out in the barn with the cattle during their "unclean" period. And stone women who are not virgins on their wedding night.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: LABTECH767

For the last time: A sin is a sin is a sin. If they profess faith in Jesus, and are saved, they are just as hellbound as you are for eating bacon and shellfish. There is no difference.

#knowyourownbeliefsystem

Yes a sin is a sin. But most people do not know how to calculate logically what is a sin and what is not. Being in love with a person of the same sex and sharing a symbiotic relationship is not a sin no matter what blind ego-hating priests preach.

All this talk of religion and jesus. Can anyone prove, outside of your precious little religious book, that jesus existed? I mean -factual sourced- proof. Blind faith = ignorance.

I think Gorge Carline said it best:
Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money! [George Carlin, fromalbum "You Are All Diseased" (it can also be found in the book "Napalm and Silly Putty".]

Here's a little question about your beloved, all-powerful God: Can god, or can god not, create a boulder which he himself can not lift?

Ill make it easy and give you the answer: Its a paradox disproving the idea of omnipotence. If god can create it his power isnt infinite because he cant life it. If he cant create it his power isnt infinite because he cant create it.

What this pastor is doin is horrible. I have -alot- of gay friends, and this really offends me. Theyre good people, who deserve the same respect as everyone else. Pointblankperiod.com

C
Jock Sr.

a reply to: imwilliam
these verses are dealing with the body of the church NOT FAMILIES!
I kind of see my job as a mother to my children not a pastor! and well if I see them going down what I believe a wrong path my job is to gently teach them why that path is so wrong and if they still chose to go down it well it's to be there to help them pick up the pieces when the crap hits the fan. Bear in mind- there is a whole world out there ready to inflict judgement and punishment on them if they error too greatly. That is not really my job!

Even in the darkest corners of hell I believe there is a flicker of light to be seen by the damned if they chose to see it and they can follow it to salvation!
Why should we remove our lights?

And I would like to add this one thing!
Most churches- not just the fundamentalist churches still teach that the women should obey their husbands!
This pastor I am sure is teaching this concept along with the idea of casting your children aside.
We should accept whatever hell our husbands decide to inflict on us since God has appointed him as our head and yet we shouldn't tolerate a child that has been brought into the world from our own womb for this reason??
Do you realize just how unnatural this is!!! How it goes against every grain of a mother's nature?? Just how badly it destroys a women's spirit? Oh ya that's right the bible was written in a time when it was believed that a women didn't have a spirit wasn't it?

But most people do not know how to calculate logically what is a sin and what is not

That's funny. Sin calculation. I bet the pope could give an overview. Why would sin matter, the religious think they just ask for forgiveness at the end and get to 'heaven'.

When they quit waiting on heaven and put their life in the now, mankind will be better.