Chemtrails- What are they?

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Bilk22

It's a crime, isn't it?

I'm not aware of any laws against contrails. It would appear that you posted the pics because you believe they are evidence of "chemtrails". Do you believe that? Then why not do something about it? Unless of course you realize it's evidence of nothing.

Just noticed - you have started exactly ZERO threads on ATS. Why not start a thread that chemtrails are like unicorns?

IMO, OPs have somewhat of a responsibility to stick with their threads to the end. I don't like that level of commitment or have the attention span for it.

Now what makes you think your pics are of "chemtrails"?

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Bilk22

It's a crime, isn't it?

I'm not aware of any laws against contrails. It would appear that you posted the pics because you believe they are evidence of "chemtrails". Do you believe that? Then why not do something about it? Unless of course you realize it's evidence of nothing.

Mind if I ask - WHAT"S IT TO YOU?

I do mind but to be polite I'll answer. I'm concerned for you as a fellow ATSer that this behavior appears a bit disingenuous. Just a heads up.

What is "disingenuous" about my posts? I, as you are well aware, cannot prove what those fumes in the sky consist of. This fact is what the deniers rely upon. However I've been on this planet for 54 years and have seen and witnessed quite a bit. I'm also pretty well educated. I also have a good sense of when something isn't right or normal. That sense has helped me quite a bit in the world. So when I see aircraft leaving these lines of "fumes" in the atmosphere on a clear blue sky, sometimes in what appear to be distinct patterns, then later see the sky grey over, my sense of normal is not satisfied. It tells me it's something other than what it appears to be.

Now I'm not claiming the "fumes" are there to intentionally harm, but that surely can be a factor just as GM factors in deaths due to some part that could have, should have been designed differently. You know risk analysis. That's part and parcel of actuarial science. So it's just possible someone somewhere got the brilliant idea to put something into the atmosphere to "help" us in some way, but knew there were risks. So they convinced some the risks were worth it.

Proving chemtrails exist would be like trying to prove the CIA kills people. We all know they do, but try proving it.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Bilk22

It's a crime, isn't it?

I'm not aware of any laws against contrails. It would appear that you posted the pics because you believe they are evidence of "chemtrails". Do you believe that? Then why not do something about it? Unless of course you realize it's evidence of nothing.

Just noticed - you have started exactly ZERO threads on ATS. Why not start a thread that chemtrails are like unicorns?

IMO, OPs have somewhat of a responsibility to stick with their threads to the end. I don't like that level of commitment or have the attention span for it.

Now what makes you think your pics are of "chemtrails"?

That's a damn shame. Seems like you have a lot to say and so much to offer. Instead of being a Monday morning QB. Try running with the ball in real time

a reply to: Bilk22

What is "disingenuous" about my posts?

Notice I did say "This behavior appears a bit disingenuous" and I put it that way for a reason. One simple answer would be that you're claiming the trails to be something when you admit you don't what they are.

I, as you are well aware, cannot prove what those fumes in the sky consist of. This fact is what the deniers rely upon.

Right. You don't know what's in them and yes, contrail deniers do rely on that fact.

BTW you're not seeing fumes. Usually when you see a trail you're seeing ice. Have you ever looked into Contrail Science?

And there is the chemtrail theory in a nutshell. The fear of clouds.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Bilk22

What is "disingenuous" about my posts?

Notice I did say "This behavior appears a bit disingenuous" and I put it that way for a reason. One simple answer would be that you're claiming the trails to be something when you admit you don't what they are.

I, as you are well aware, cannot prove what those fumes in the sky consist of. This fact is what the deniers rely upon.

Right. You don't know what's in them and yes, contrail deniers do rely on that fact.

BTW you're not seeing fumes. Usually when you see a trail you're seeing ice. Have you ever looked into Contrail Science?

The ice is formed when the exhaust fumes from the engine freeze. Yes I fully understand what is happening. They too are indeed "fumes". Look up the definition. Maybe you need an education in the "science" LOL

Now are they just the natural exhaust produced by a turbine or something more?

I think the crusade you're on is a funny as the one you believe me to be on.

a reply to: Bilk22

The ice is formed when the exhaust fumes from the engine freeze. Yes I fully understand what is happening. They too are indeed "fumes". Look up the definition. Maybe you need an education in the "science" LOL

Ok educate me. Show me the twisted road that leads to water vapor being "fumes". There's more to the definition of fumes than being a vapor.

Next step would be to demonstrate visibility of water vapor. Not steam. Not ice. Water vapor. Like I said, you're not seeing fumes.

Now are they just the natural exhaust produced by a turbine or something more?

Since we know how contrails are produced it's more than reasonable to conclude they are simply contrails. Contrails in general and persisting spreading contrails are nothing new.

One morning as he was talking with a reporter from the New York Times Roberts pointed out the jet airplane contrails overhead. He predicted that by mid afternoon they would spread and thin, until you couldn't tell the contrails from cirrus clouds. They did, and you couldn't.(10) The Times made it a front-page story (Sept. 23, 1963).

www.aip.org...

You can suspect anything you like but suspicions aren't evidence. The "I don't know, therefore chemtrails" position that so many take is illogical.

I think the crusade you're on is a funny as the one you believe me to be on.

I don't think yours is funny, I think it's sad.

What IF this whole "chemtrails" meme is being used a distraction from actual invisible geoengineering occurring now? I don't *think* that's the case right now but at some point in the future maybe it could be.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Bilk22

The ice is formed when the exhaust fumes from the engine freeze. Yes I fully understand what is happening. They too are indeed "fumes". Look up the definition. Maybe you need an education in the "science" LOL

Ok educate me. Show me the twisted road that leads to water vapor being "fumes". There's more to the definition of fumes than being a vapor.

Next step would be to demonstrate visibility of water vapor. Not steam. Not ice. Water vapor. Like I said, you're not seeing fumes.

Now are they just the natural exhaust produced by a turbine or something more?

Since we know how contrails are produced it's more than reasonable to conclude they are simply contrails. Contrails in general and persisting spreading contrails are nothing new.

One morning as he was talking with a reporter from the New York Times Roberts pointed out the jet airplane contrails overhead. He predicted that by mid afternoon they would spread and thin, until you couldn't tell the contrails from cirrus clouds. They did, and you couldn't.(10) The Times made it a front-page story (Sept. 23, 1963).

www.aip.org...

You can suspect anything you like but suspicions aren't evidence. The "I don't know, therefore chemtrails" position that so many take is illogical.

I think the crusade you're on is a funny as the one you believe me to be on.

I don't think yours is funny, I think it's sad.

What IF this whole "chemtrails" meme is being used a distraction from actual invisible geoengineering occurring now? I don't *think* that's the case right now but at some point in the future maybe it could be.

You have proof that contrails that persist and spread are indeed just that or are you relying upon what someone wrote on the internet?

a reply to: Bilk22

You have proof that contrails that persist and spread are indeed just that or are you relying upon what someone wrote on the internet?

Now that's about as ironic as it gets. They've been doing so long before any "chemtrail" bull# was sprayed on the net. Not that you'll look at it but, here you go contrailscience.com...

You do know that about 1.25 tons of water are produced by the combustion of 1 ton of fuel don't you? I don't find it strange at all that water vapor would freeze at high altitudes. It is after all quite cold up there.

From personal observations I have all the 'proof' I need that yes, what I see are just contrails. Their behavior is wholly inconsistent with a chemical spray. I've seen more than enough planes "spraying" as they cross the sky and watched the trails form, persist, spread and dissipate. Different parts of the same damn trail exhibiting different behavior.

I've seen planes that I didn't notice until they started 'spraying' when they entered a region of the sky that had clouds and trails already. The trails persisted in that region but even though they continued to 'spray', the trails quickly dissipated outside that region. It's quite obvious to anyone with an open mind to science and some common sense that trail formation, persistence and spreading is dependent upon atmospheric conditions.

What chemical could be sprayed from a plane that could spread out across the sky AND increase in volume as would be necessary to jibe with the "chemtrail theory"? While you're at it why would it behave so erratically? If you're going to be a contrail denier at least show you've thought it through enough to have a plausible explanation for what is seen to occur the sky?

Jesse, my only exposure to chemtrails/ contrails happened when I flew from California to Hawaii on a 747 back in the 70's. I was setting in a window seat just back of the trailing edge of the wing. I noticed several times during the flight the engines would create a vortex swirl of what I would call a vapor. I assumed it was there because of the difference between exhaust temp and exhaust pressure
of the jet engines and the air around the plane at altitude. As long as we stayed above whatever altitude the trail was visible. I noticed if we slowed down a bit the trail would vanish. I have experience with jet engines since I was in the Coast Guard we have ships that had jet engines that are used for propulsion. I could run these engines in winter when it was cold we could see a change in the way exhaust look coming out of the stack. I would think it is the same as jetliner and military jets.

Just a thought go to a air show you can see the contrails of the jets even at low altitude if the air temp is cold enough. So my vote is for contrails. If there where chemtrails and these jet liners and military jets would be spewing out something that would make people ill. That has not been proven anywhere that I know of.

a reply to: Ceeker63

I was setting in a window seat just back of the trailing edge of the wing. I noticed several times during the flight the engines would create a vortex swirl of what I would call a vapor. I assumed it was there because of the difference between exhaust temp and exhaust pressure

Don't forget relative humidity and you have the contrail cocktail.

If there where chemtrails and these jet liners and military jets would be spewing out something that would make people ill. That has not been proven anywhere that I know of.

Isn't it amazing that the chemtrail hoax has been going on since the mid 90's, and we have yet to see masses of sick people from all the supposed chemtrailing that has been happening. And you are right there is nothing yet to prove chemtrails exist.

a reply to: Bilk22

You have proof that contrails that persist and spread are indeed just that or are you relying upon what someone wrote on the internet?

Interesting you would ask that, because isn't that exactly how the chemtrail hoax started and dare I say it persists today.

And here is a little video from Mick West that shows you books you can read about contrails, so no it doesn't rely on just the internet.



Hard to beat a good book now isn't it?

a reply to: Bilk22

I, as you are well aware, cannot prove what those fumes in the sky consist of.

Actually you and I don't have to do that as we have scientists that do that for us and they can prove what those fumes (contrails) consist of, but now chemtrails are a different game altogether as not one chemtrail pusher has ever went up and tested a so called chemtrail.

So how does one know that chemtrails even are real?

That's true, and you may be completely correct. Chemtrails are real, but I'm still trying to figure out this: the people, who are making chemtrails, aren't they affecting themselves too? Can someone show me these people that are spraying chemicals into the sky, and wearing gas masks, so they don't have to breathe whatever it is they're spraying? If there are people who are causing chemtrails, and chemtrails are detrimental to everything, then they're being detrimental to themselves too, aren't they? Don't get me wrong, they are probably knuckleheads who would do that. I'm not saying there's not! Maybe it'll come out that it is all true, but I think the NSA is far more probable than chemtrails are.

a reply to: Thisbseth

That's true, and you may be completely correct. Chemtrails are real, but I'm still trying to figure out this: the people, who are making chemtrails, aren't they affecting themselves too? Can someone show me these people that are spraying chemicals into the sky, and wearing gas masks, so they don't have to breathe whatever it is they're spraying? If there are people who are causing chemtrails, and chemtrails are detrimental to everything, then they're being detrimental to themselves too, aren't they? Don't get me wrong, they are probably knuckleheads who would do that. I'm not saying there's not! Maybe it'll come out that it is all true, but I think the NSA is far more probable than chemtrails are.

a reply to: Thisbseth

a reply to: JesseVentura

In my opinion, direct testing is the only way to ever get any answers to the chemtrail conspiracy. Anything else is just going to be lip service.

And the can of worms that could potentially be there is big. Either way it falls, you would be doing a great service to the conspiracy world.

a reply to: JesseVentura

Chemtrails are real

Interesting statement. Can you tell us what you mean by "chemtrails" and how do you know they're real?

Thanks

a reply to: JesseVentura

If there are people who are causing chemtrails, and chemtrails are detrimental to everything, then they're being detrimental to themselves too, aren't they?

And yet some that believe in chemtrails seem unable to grasp that logic.

originally posted by: JesseVentura
That's true, and you may be completely correct. Chemtrails are real, but I'm still trying to figure out this: the people, who are making chemtrails, aren't they affecting themselves too? Can someone show me these people that are spraying chemicals into the sky, and wearing gas masks, so they don't have to breathe whatever it is they're spraying? If there are people who are causing chemtrails, and chemtrails are detrimental to everything, then they're being detrimental to themselves too, aren't they? Don't get me wrong, they are probably knuckleheads who would do that. I'm not saying there's not! Maybe it'll come out that it is all true, but I think the NSA is far more probable than chemtrails are.

a reply to: Thisbseth

In one of my prior posts I stated that maybe they're spraying something that has the potential to be hazardous but is being used for something other than as a direct agent to harm. This happens all of the time. Risk reward factor. Risk and reward for whom is the question.

I'll post some pics from this afternoon. The sky was clear blue and then the "contrails" started. Then the clouds started to form.

a reply to: Bilk22

Pics from earlier today. Nice blue sky then "contrails happened".