Creationism Will be the End of Cristianity.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Obviously, you have not met God nor Stalin.

Yeah, right. You have of course...

Limiting one's blather about topics one has limited understanding of can be wise.

Yes, ponder that...

a reply to: Dark Ghost

But why is there evil to begin with? That is part of the puzzle that nobody ever addresses.

Gautama Buddha addressed it. He explained that evil arose out of the need to satisfy desire, which provokes human actions that inevitably have other consequences besides the ones intended, consequences that cause suffering to living beings.

I am not a Buddhist, but the internet is replete with more information for the curious. This is a particularly trustworthy and useful site.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

If Christians were the dominant governing entity in this nation, I'm not sure they'd be so different from the way radical Islam runs things.

Indeed not. If you're into well-written history, the later books of Gibbon's Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire make it clear just how much like today's radical mullahs and ayatollahs the bishops and priests of the early Christian era conducted themselves.

a reply to: ArtemisE

I actually think you are wrong, it is an interpretation of the old testament book of genesis and there are other's, some words which come to mind are Pre Adamite, Alternative time scale and a few others but then I am a christian and a time limit on god never made sense to me, Just a hint the Hebrew (I am part jewish myself through a maternal line) belief is BLESSED BE OUR GOD THE CREATOR OF TIME AND SPACE, now maybe this was a later addition but then the book of revelation talks about god having power over time so how does it really affect them, what is more harmful is a strong anti religious establishment or coalition of groups in the west whom have made christianity there prime target and have forced there interpretation as defacto unchallangable fact onto the younger generation as well as making the secretly religous youth fear the opinion of there friends so denying they have a faith in christ.
Most atheists use the well tried mottos and propeganda such as.
Religion is the cause of all war - Obvious bull Sh@@
God's not real when your dead your dead - More bull Sh@@ as they can therefore not prove to me that they exist themselves and that the reality or even the universe exists as well as having no explanation for non hallucination paranormal activity which defys scientific explanation and is non repeatable, indeed they coin the phrase mass hallucination when no psychological process can produce such an effect, though mass hysteria and panick are herd reactions a mass hallucination of a complex religious or other phenomena is not a plausible or even actual scientific explanation but instead a coined phrase to explain what many people saw together that they can not allow into there clever little model of reality and also they tend to mistake there scientific model of reality for the real thing when in fact they are anything but that.

I could go on all day but the threat to the christian religion in the west today is that the youth do not see it as cool and are frightened of letting on if they know or believe anything where as the regimented and almost military nature of islam has ensured it's success, join the religion become part of the mans club, leave the religion and they kill deserters (or at least place a death sentence on them).

There will especially with the large inward looking islamic enclaves over the next century be a shift in the west as persecuted unfashionable christianity is nosed out the accompanying western culture will also vanish and the growth of islam will continue regardless of weather right or as i believe it to be wrong and christianity will be pushed into backwaters with the followers becoming regarded as indeed they are in some states of the americas as hick's or back country boy's but then in our religon we are already told our religion will be stamped out and practiced in secret, persecuted and hunted but we are also told that we will have the last laugh as it says "in those days the words of the wise will seem as foolishness and the words of the fools as wisdom".
Lastly christianity is a spiritual wisdom.


Oh and who did cain marry, she was not his sister so what was the dust of the earth, is it not conceivable that the dust was the race of man devoid of god's spirit and adam and eve were like the later christian recipiants of the holy ghost in the form of the breath of life.

Creationism will not be the end of chrisitianity but ultra conservative christians will be persecuted and it is unfashionable, makes the young often cringe to admit or fear the reaction of there friends if they show they believe in christianity but you know what, faithful christians are the happiest and nicest people I have met, even without money they live happy fulfilled lives and have god in them in a very practical way which make there lives have meaning, what meaning does an atheist have.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

It was to illustrate the fact that almost none of the people we considered educated men buy religion.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: ArtemisE

I think you're missing the point of the story, and you're missing the importance of the New Testament.

In the Old Testament, Abraham was being tested. Could remain faithful to God under the most dire of circumstances? He could. God clearly didn't want Abraham to follow through with it...

The New Testament changes the game. The ultimate sacrifice has been made. So, if anyone today hears voices "from God" telling them to kill their son, it isn't from God. I imagine that the response to your question would be a solid no.

You sure the point wasn't obey god in anything.... No matter how evil and twisted?

How does a new testement excuse "gods" past evil?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: ArtemisE

A few times in my life, I've given far more than was rational and than I could afford in behalf of those I loved--almost to the point of losing all I had and was about.

You have no clue about the degree of my sacrificial giving in behalf of others. No clue whatsoever.

I'd almost rather die myself than see even some animals suffer. I'd certainly rather die myself than see a child suffer.

Go ahead and exalt in your arrogance and your ignorance about God and about me. We'll see how the harvest of that arrogance and ignorance works out for you.

Unless "god" told you to huh? Then you would kill whatever animal, child or love one, correct?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: ArtemisE

I actually think you are wrong, it is an interpretation of the old testament book of genesis and there are other's, some words which come to mind are Pre Adamite, Alternative time scale and a few others but then I am a christian and a time limit on god never made sense to me, Just a hint the Hebrew (I am part jewish myself through a maternal line) belief is BLESSED BE OUR GOD THE CREATOR OF TIME AND SPACE, now maybe this was a later addition but then the book of revelation talks about god having power over time so how does it really affect them, what is more harmful is a strong anti religious establishment or coalition of groups in the west whom have made christianity there prime target and have forced there interpretation as defacto unchallangable fact onto the younger generation as well as making the secretly religous youth fear the opinion of there friends so denying they have a faith in christ.
Most atheists use the well tried mottos and propeganda such as.
Religion is the cause of all war - Obvious bull Sh@@
God's not real when your dead your dead - More bull Sh@@ as they can therefore not prove to me that they exist themselves and that the reality or even the universe exists as well as having no explanation for non hallucination paranormal activity which defys scientific explanation and is non repeatable, indeed they coin the phrase mass hallucination when no psychological process can produce such an effect, though mass hysteria and panick are herd reactions a mass hallucination of a complex religious or other phenomena is not a plausible or even actual scientific explanation but instead a coined phrase to explain what many people saw together that they can not allow into there clever little model of reality and also they tend to mistake there scientific model of reality for the real thing when in fact they are anything but that.

I could go on all day but the threat to the christian religion in the west today is that the youth do not see it as cool and are frightened of letting on if they know or believe anything where as the regimented and almost military nature of islam has ensured it's success, join the religion become part of the mans club, leave the religion and they kill deserters (or at least place a death sentence on them).

There will especially with the large inward looking islamic enclaves over the next century be a shift in the west as persecuted unfashionable christianity is nosed out the accompanying western culture will also vanish and the growth of islam will continue regardless of weather right or as i believe it to be wrong and christianity will be pushed into backwaters with the followers becoming regarded as indeed they are in some states of the americas as hick's or back country boy's but then in our religon we are already told our religion will be stamped out and practiced in secret, persecuted and hunted but we are also told that we will have the last laugh as it says "in those days the words of the wise will seem as foolishness and the words of the fools as wisdom".
Lastly christianity is a spiritual wisdom.


Oh and who did cain marry, she was not his sister so what was the dust of the earth, is it not conceivable that the dust was the race of man devoid of god's spirit and adam and eve were like the later christian recipiants of the holy ghost in the form of the breath of life.

Creationism will not be the end of chrisitianity but ultra conservative christians will be persecuted and it is unfashionable, makes the young often cringe to admit or fear the reaction of there friends if they show they believe in christianity but you know what, faithful christians are the happiest and nicest people I have met, even without money they live happy fulfilled lives and have god in them in a very practical way which make there lives have meaning, what meaning does an atheist have.

IMHO the youth of today have the ability to check the facts, which don't add up to scientific theory. They watch documentaries on the universe or what Christians in different times thought and aren't too set in there ways to reexamine there out look. Remember when kids are at there most gullible they still believe. It's as they get smarter they no longer buy it.

a reply to: borntowatch

Prior to Christianity the world was uneducated, it was the Protestant Christian reformers who brought on mass education for the average individual, not atheism or science.

Education in ancient Greece

History of education in China

They weren't waiting for William Wilberforce.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Chronogoblin

I think your assumptions are running away with your 'logic.'

1. OF COURSE God could do anything His Nature allows Him to do.

2. It's just NOT HIS STYLE to hoax things--and certainly NOT in the way you outline.

3. Of course I believe in satan.

Not sure what assumptions your talking about, I made none.

1. Not sure why you continued your post after this point, considering you just proved mine.

2. Then you claim to know, for a fact, that God's 'style' wouldn't allow him to do this. Which is not what I claimed, I claimed Satan did it, to cast doubt.

Point being, I am not even a Young Earth espouser, yet, even I can plainly see simple explanations for things that people can't accept. It is their choice to accept God, and his works, or to believe that they are superior to God.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

It is their choice to accept God, and his works, or to believe that they are superior to God.

I don't believe I am superior to anyone. But anyone who preaches humility and then expects me to acknowledge them as superior is, quite frankly, an idiot in my eyes.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Sir, you merely re-stated what I said but in a cynical manner. Yes, God was testing Abraham. Yes, God wanted to see if Abraham could obey Him no matter what. He could, and God would not allow him to follow through with the sacrifice.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Chronogoblin

this is the problem. people are arguing against an old earth in the bible, using papal interpretation as their launching platform. the problem with that is, the text does not say the earth is only 6000 years old.
i can prove it.

verse one says the universe was created
verse two says the earth became a desolate ruin.

what happened between verse 1 and verse 2?
oh bunches of things like the ice age, for example.

I don't think your reading the same book as I am. Not only that, but it seems like you invented a time machine, went back to the beginning of creation, and witnessed events yourself. Quite the feat, that.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

I don't believe I am superior to anyone. But anyone who preaches humility and then expects me to acknowledge them as superior is, quite frankly, an idiot in my eyes.

Agree with the basic principles of your post, however, why folks like you feel the need to ruin perfectly good thinking with venom is beyond me. Kind of ruins it.

a reply to: borntowatch

So your idea of education is printing Bibles!

Gosh, and I actually took the trouble to reply your earlier post seriously...

a reply to: JohnFisher

As far as the New Testament is concerned, academically, it is solid. It is a real collection of witness accounts of the events that took place (the gospel books and acts). This much is fairly indisputable.

The Gospels and Acts are a collection of claimed eyewitness accounts assembled some decades after Jesus' death, and brought to their final form a couple of centuries later.

To believe that they are accurate and reliable accounts of the events they describe requires not just logic, but faith.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

I don't believe I am superior to anyone. But anyone who preaches humility and then expects me to acknowledge them as superior is, quite frankly, an idiot in my eyes.

Agree with the basic principles of your post, however, why folks like you feel the need to ruin perfectly good thinking with venom is beyond me. Kind of ruins it.

If it works for Christians, it can work for me. I am also sick to death of human stupidity.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Yes, God wanted to see if Abraham could obey Him no matter what.

So... not omnipotent then. Had to test him.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin

Not sure what assumptions your talking about, I made none.

yet you don't seem to believe that God could create the universe last Thursday, to look much older. It seems a lot of 'believers,' want to take the supernatural out of God.

There you are evidently assuming that I do not believe God COULD do the 'last Thursday' creation thing. Wrong. I believe He COULD. I do not believe He did.

You seem to assume that I take the supernatural out of God. Not by a trillion light years and more.

2. Then you claim to know, for a fact, that God's 'style' wouldn't allow him to do this. Which is not what I claimed, I claimed Satan did it, to cast doubt.

I don't see satan as creator of anything but rebellion.

God, tends, to do things the 'old fashioned way' . . . Not sure how to articulate that in this situation. He can easily and often does alter His Creation supernaturally. He's not flighty, given to erratic whimsy etc.

And it is THE DECEIVER'S business to deceive. Creating things "last Thursday" to look ancient would be a deception . . . one that is quite out of character for God.

Point being, I am not even a Young Earth espouser, yet, even I can plainly see simple explanations for things that people can't accept. It is their choice to accept God, and his works, or to believe that they are superior to God.

True.

a reply to: JohnFisher

I figure, God being God . . . had to know that Abraham would pass the test.

It seems to me . . . the test was somehow for Abraham and to somehow cement in Abraham, Abraham's convictions about the priority of God in his life . . . and Abraham's awareness of himself as such a close buddy of God.