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How will the world remember America?

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posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Expat888


China censors the internet and you say they are more free then Americans??

Okay.


If America is so effing bad they need to tell that to Mexicans, and other south and central American illegal immigrants.

As they come hell or high water running for this country.

Something they don't do elsewhere like China,etc.




posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: simsumre

I think the 50s was the time that people were most harshly trained to be unquestioning conformists.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
We do ?
Less than 1% is in prison out of a population of 330+ million.
Some people must love demagoguery.


Well actually we do when we look at how many people are in jail per 100,000.

But then this also represents how many are documented while not just killing as a first choice too. I also think we most likely have much better prisons compared to a good chunk of the world and people are not intimidated by do time here as they would be in other countries.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




Well actually we do when we look at how many people are in jail per 100,000.


I would call that manipulation of 'facts' for the express purposes of pushing an agenda.

Total us population 330 million Americans not even counting illegals in this country which is anywhere between 25-50 million more.

Still makes the total amount in prison in this entire country less than 1 %.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
Still makes the total amount in prison in this entire country less than 1 %.


True, but in comparison to everyone else they are well under 1% of their population. The problem is not every country posts all they imprison and many people do not make it to actually go to jail, or make it out of jail. Personally I do not see it as any kind of indicator other than maybe people in a America have a freer will power that gets them in trouble than other countries.

Case in point: The Korean Ferry that sank with all the students on board, were told by the crew to stay put, and they did, even as the water started to come in to their cabins. That ferry took like 1.5 hours to sinks and non of them left their rooms, waiting.

That is why much of the world does not have many in prison, people mindlessly obey as they been programmed to do, and people who do not have true freedom just can not really understand what that means.


edit on 16-6-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




True, but in comparison to everyone else they are well under 1% of their population.


Here is the problem the comparison can't even be made.

Since no two countries

have the same populations.

have the same legislative, and judicial processes.

have the same socioeconomic, and political systems.

They can't be compared.

If everyone did ?

Then it might be a different story.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

Here is the problem the comparison can't even be made.
Since no two countries
have the same populations.
have the same legislative, and judicial processes.
have the same socioeconomic, and political systems.
They can't be compared.
If everyone did ?
Then it might be a different story.


Maybe, so how do you compare lets say one country that has 1% of their population in jail and another has .5% of their population in jail?

As I said, I do not know how to compare an individual motive to break or not break laws when we look across different countries.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




Maybe, so how do you compare lets say one country that has 1% of their population in jail and another has .5% of their population in jail?


You don't since they can't be.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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I don't understand this thread. Are people seriously suggesting that the US is in any worse condition than the average nation out there? The majority are clueless, and out their minds, but disproportionately, the best and the brightest are still hailing from the US.

We have superior tech, more patents, better military, and overall more resource security than any other nation on the planet. The real question is, what will humanity 2.0, living on Earth 2.0, think of Terra's inhabitants?

I see the history books as writing the people of earth as terribly short-sighted, and foolish, for not listening to the scientists when they had the chance. That, being partly propaganda, as the oligarchy played their parts in this global destruction as well.

There isn't enough time left on this planet to see the US as particularly destroyed, compared to every other nation out there. It's a race for getting off planet, and finding/reaching that new Earth. This should be obvious once one factors in the financial coup, shadow banking system, and insanely large black operations budget. We can play into other people's games, else realize the whole for what it is. Unsustainable.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

We are a democratic republic, we have representatives that vote for us on issues. As far as who those reps are,we are given very little choice.I've always looked at candidates as the lesser of 2 evils when voting. You can't help it when you really start investigating them. As far as presidential elections go,well we all saw what the republicans did to Ron Paul last election to keep him out. So yeah we are only given 2 to choose from which is no choice at all.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: pl3bscheese
We have superior tech, more patents, better military, and overall more resource security than any other nation on the planet. The real question is, what will humanity 2.0, living on Earth 2.0, think of Terra's inhabitants?


Think of the US as a physical family for a minute. A family can have nice things, but it's not much to cling to when the home is falling apart around them & they're sinking deeper into debt. It also doesn't matter much when that family with the nice things in the dilapidated house is also the dysfunctional bully family on the block. Nobody likes an a-hole neighbor telling you what to do, how to think, act, etc. That applies globally. Stuff is good, but we lack the substance globally to have the stuff look like anything other than empty "Murca! Yeah!" trumpeting.

I'm American, and I can take the critiquing. Why can't others? That boggles my mind, are people so hung up on having the "Best!" label as a nationality that they'll block out anything that doesn't support it? (redundant question, I know the answer is yes)
We will never become better than we are if we don't recognize that these issues being pointed out by the rest of the planet are troublesome. That kind of head in the sand reaction is what lets it fester beyond the point of fixing. And if we let it fester, we'll most certainly get the negative historical footnotes we deserve. Nationalism & ego will make sure of it.
edit on 6/16/2014 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

Think of the US is a physical family for a minute. A family can have nice things, but it's not much to cling to when the home is falling apart around them & they're sinking deeper into debt.


I suggest you look at our Debt/GDP ratio, then compare it to other nations. Almost all nations are treading water. It's just a game. These "things" keep the reserve currency in our favor, allow us to secure resource contracts, and not have all too much worry about an invading army. They're also leading the push off this planet. Pretty big deal.


ref: WorldDebtClocks


It also doesn't matter much when that family with the nice things in the dilapidated house is also the dysfunctional bully family on the block. Nobody likes an a-hole neighbor telling you what to do, how to think, act, etc. That applies globally. Stuff is good, but we lack the substance globally to have the stuff look like anything other than empty "Murca! Yeah!" trumpeting.


I can agree here, but what empire is not seen as a bully? Some prior empires had neighbors willingly join, but most fought until they were assimilated. Think of humanity as a cranky teenager with hormones through the roof. We're almost ready to grow up. That's my hope that we finally get it "right" on Earth 2.0.


I'm American, and I can take the critiquing. Why can't others? That boggles my mind, are people so hung up on having the "Best!" label as a nationality that they'll block out anything that doesn't support it? (redundant question, I know the answer is yes)


Look, we're falling behind many other developed nations in many ways. I'm not trying to hide that fact. I'm saying, our standards are incredibly high (or were), and the perception of where we should be needs to be considered in relation to where everyone else actually is, to start thinking about the US collapsing, just cause. It's not happening anytime soon. Don't buy into the propaganda. When the US falls, civilization fails. That'll happen this century.


We will never become better than we are if we don't recognize that these issues being pointed out by the rest of the planet are troublesome. That kind of head in the sand reaction is what lets it fester beyond the point of fixing. And if we let it fester, we'll most certainly get the negative historical footnotes we deserve. Nationalism & ego will make sure of it.


There is no fixing on this planet. Each variable is interrelated, and whenever you tweak one, you lose from another. The time for "fixing" was at least a generation ago. Sorry.
edit on 16-6-2014 by pl3bscheese because: added image and link



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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The problem isn't with the U.S. as an idea, the founding principles are something most average people can agree with and uphold, no, rather the problem with the U.S. is this:

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."
- U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a letter written Nov. 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House

Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it ; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the monopoly will refuse to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new man's wares.

- President Woodrow Wilson, Section I: The Old Order Changeth p. 13

“Bankers own the earth; take it away from them but leave them with the power to create credit; and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again... If you want to be slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers control money and control credit.”
- Sir Josiah Stamp, Director, Bank of England, 1940.

The U.S. as an idea is laudable, but under the influence of these "interlocking powers" it has almost become a police state.

edit on 16-6-2014 by deloprator20000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 07:06 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: simsumre
a reply to: Kryties

Americans are not their Government. You'll find that most Americans don't agree with what their Government is doing on many issues.


So who votes them in then? The ruling class? If that isn't tyranny then I don't know what is, and if the American people have realised this then why haven't they done anything about it?


"The American People" equals over 300mil individuals.

With that in mind, do you see how ridiculous your statement above is?


You're absolutely right. Those 300 odd million citizens are still never-the-less watching their country fall to pieces.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: simsumre

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Kryties

This is incorrect. We don't have the Goths to the north, or the huns to the east. We don't have an empire that stretches beyond our ability to manage.

While there may be some analogies that can be made....the fall of Rome has very little to do with the state of America. We are going to fail in new and novel ways.


The Roman Empire never fell. Rome fell, Constantinople didn't until much later. Holy Roman, Papacy, English. The Empire is alive and well in America.


Goths and their empire are right to the point about remembrance of fallen empires. History is often erased and distorted, so a bit about small part of that story, about Galindians and Yotvingians. They are also called Galindai kai Soudinoi by Ptolemy, Getuesia und Getvesia by Germans. Polish historian Duglosh "boasts" that they were issued death sentence by Polish king Casimir and killed all. Ruthenian chronicles claim that they were all enslaved, just this time by Roman the Great. Both these claims were far from truth, they were in federation, with culturally similar nations, Samogitians, Semigalians, Latgalians, Prussians, Curonians (naming just few) and part of their territory survived without major changes until 1655 when 70% of all population died which lead to major changes in their former lands. Even though a lot of them were alive in 19th age Gardinas (original name), center of former Gardarike (gardas originaly meant fenced, guarded place, town), mass killings, enforced foreign culture made them allmost extinct or assimilated in that place. Not so long ago some historical facts that were written here, were persecuted in full extent of the law and would have meant certain death or visit to the place where only white bears roam. Historical books were banned and were amongst the top most searched for things. Erasing of history did happen and is, unfortunately, the most likely thing to happen.
One thing is certain, USA is far from being fallen. With true falling always major loss of life is involved. Only then things start to get really bad. As long as marked for trade "Mistral" ships or carriers do not confuse former Yotvingian Brest with French Brest or other places, things aren't so grim as they seem.
edit on 16-6-2014 by PonderingSceptic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 08:52 PM
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originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: thesaneone
Nothing would make me happier then having America isolate herself from the rest of the world just so we can sit back and listen to the rest of the world cry and beg for our help and when we ignore the cries for help then we can read on ATS how mean we are for not helping.

Point is no matter what we do or don't do other countries will always hate America and for no other reason then jealousy.


You're probably right.....

Anyone who thinks Churchill would have asked for help if he didn't need it is a fool. He was one of the strongest leaders in history, he liked to say he wooed Roosevelt into the war. Churchill was an intellectual giant compared to Roosevelt. He would have never asked if he didn't need it. How he and Roosevelt actually got us into the war is yet another conspiracy.


Churchill knew that American as well as British interests where under threat from Nazi Germany. Why should Britain alone take the fight to Nazi's.Churchill wanted The U.S. to make a fair contribution in defeating Hitler. Only problem is the American's charged for it.

Probably the only "Charge" they made throughout the war


Both US and Canada loaned England money but not until after the war, US 6 billion if I am not mistaken and Canada 1.5 or so. Amazing enough your country made the final payment in 2006, no hurry we are just across the pond. You received our goods and blood during the war for FREE. (that means no charge) We loaned you money for rebuilding and leftover military items you wanted to keep.

As far as the internet and the World Wide Web, the internet is the hardware and the www is the protocols only a small portion of the net today although the contribution important. In the US we were sending emails from college to college before anyone even had an idea of the protocols required to create the WWW. The internet was created by DARPA as a means to communicate between missile silos incase one connection was severed there could still be communications to launch.

So yes you can claim the web, but it's kind of like we invented the car and you added a steering wheel when we were already steering with a wrench. The internet was established and functional before the WWW protocols were invented. Never mind the computer to run the whole shebang or would you like to claim those as well?

Now are you to tell me, (we should start at the beginning ) with German uboats sending english iron to meet davey jones without the american navy you would be fine? That shipping and the queens navy would be fine without Americans? Because of the technology to detect german subs and the American tactics to attack the subs English naval warfare was spared from having more iron on the bottom than was available on the island.

So you're saying we got into the war so we could make a fair contribution to fight the nazi's and we chagred you for it? We lost the pretty much same amount of people you did about 450K because it was a fair contribution on our part? Again we were not threatened by the Nazi's it was you that asked for help and it wasn't for a fair contribution. If we had charged you for the war effort based on your payment progress for 6 billion loan to rebuild we would still be waiting for repayment.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 09:00 PM
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Another lament on the poor math skills of Americans. This time, it isn't just younger people. This dude was around 50.

I walk into my local convenience store to buy some stuff. In the store are 2 employees. The older gentleman mentioned, as well as a 30something lady. I know both of them fairly well from years of interacting with them in the community.

As I walk by the ice cooler, the guy is taking inventory to see how many bags of ice he will need to make before they leave. The cooler holds a predefined number of bags. "lets see....6 and 7....(referring to rows and columns) what is that?" She answers, "um...36 I think?"

oO



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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"How will the world remember America?"

By watching the news.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: neo96

The censorship is there yes .. but most chinese kids have found alot of creative ways around it .. and even with the censorship on the times that am in china i can still access ats without having to resort to creative methods of getting around censorship ..

All media regardless of what country your in is censored some more than others but censorship is worldwide ..

Nowhere is perfect in this world ..



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: simsumre

I think they'll be forgotten eventually, once the extremists get some well connected friends and several hundred Nuke's level it; leaving it a "No Go" area for the next 10,000 years. Religious nuts of Middle Eastern descent will take-over and there will be no one left who cares for the constitution of the founding fathers. All trace of the once Great USA will be lost in the depths of the teaching's of the Qur'an.

With no hard documentation recording the US history ie: wall drawings and/or rock carvings, it'll be like the modern day America never existed. Computer's will decay, paper will perish and mother nature will reclaim everything back for herself; building's, roads etc

20,000 years from now, when it is safe to walk on the soil again, archaeologists will think that only the native Americans ever walked there. "Where they destroyed by a large asteroid?", "Did that big Volcano under Yellowstone obliterate them?", "Where was Noah?".

Initially though, America will be remembered; temporarily and only by Westerner's, as a collection of scorched hole's in the ground. 9/11 x 1million...

1,000,000.818



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