The Old Universal Language, Confounded by Babel

The universal language is Love I believe.

a reply to: TheJourney

I'm glad this thread came up. Thank you OP. I'm also glad there's only a couple of pages to go through because I was needing to know if anyone had referenced the Chronicle Project yet. It's a group of people in Canada that have taken the Hebrew language down to its most base components and are systematically going through the Jewish Torah and Christian O.T. to find that there are some surprising revelations in the original meanings of those texts. I think ancient Hebrew is a good candidate for an "original language" but don't take my word for it - see how it's described on the Chronicle Projects introductory pages.

Right now I'm bushed after working on fences all day but I hope this thread stays around long enough to go through everyone else's links as they look equally interesting.

Thanks again OP!

originally posted by: Ollie769
a reply to: TheJourney

I'm glad this thread came up. Thank you OP. I'm also glad there's only a couple of pages to go through because I was needing to know if anyone had referenced the Chronicle Project yet. It's a group of people in Canada that have taken the Hebrew language down to its most base components and are systematically going through the Jewish Torah and Christian O.T. to find that there are some surprising revelations in the original meanings of those texts. I think ancient Hebrew is a good candidate for an "original language" but don't take my word for it - see how it's described on the Chronicle Projects introductory pages.

Right now I'm bushed after working on fences all day but I hope this thread stays around long enough to go through everyone else's links as they look equally interesting.

Thanks again OP!

Very interesting! Thanks for the link! I have a natural affinity towards Hebrew, largely because in the past, an earlier stage of my spiritual journey, I nearly converted to Orthodox Judaism. I reached that after a long and intense path of biblical study, with Christianity as a starting point. The idea of Hebrew being an original, divine language was a present one. One of the main things that constituted my unique ideology at the time was a belief in the importance of restoring Hebrew to what it originally was. I was big into, for instance, a restoration of the original pronunciation of Hebrew, which differs from the pronunciation in modern Hebrew. What I considered to be the original was closest to the yemenite pronunciation.

Anyways, that site references mechon-mamre, which is a site I often utilized in that time period and it was somewhat involved in the overall movement I believed in. Though I do not share my former ideology, there was legitimacy in some of the ideas in restoring certain things to as they were originally. Their utilization of mechon-mamre just increased my interest in looking into it.

Also, my more recent studies into the 'occult' involve the utilization of the Hebrew language as a basis for a symbolic system purported to be based on something similar to the concept I present in OP.

a reply to: Shiloh7
I appreciated your kind response

The men involved with taking Canaan were led by a superhuman God, who simply by being a God, should have been able to remove the native Canaanites himself and then give the land to the Israelites, not lead them in battle - which seems a more human approach than that of a superior God.

God consistently chooses to give man oportunities for greatness. He does not need to lead them by the hand and remove every obstacle, that would only elevate himself, and make creating humans pointless. God is more interested in the individuals heart, not a programmed response.

I see your proposal about God protecting our Free Will but how does that fit with the Bible telling us that the world was already fully populated, so humanity had already spread out?[/

Here is how I see the biblical account. It starts after the genealogies of Shem Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah.

At one time all the people of the world spoke the same language and used the same words. As the people migrated to the east, they found a plain in the land of Babylonia and settled there. Then they said, “Come, let’s build a great city for ourselves with a tower that reaches into the sky. This will make us famous and keep us from being scattered all over the world.” (Genesis 11:1, 2, 4 NLT)

"I don't think we fully realise that the civilisations of Egypt and India also were very highly evolved. The temple and its correlation to the human being is sophisticated beyond anything we build today."

I agree that the people, of this time were way more advanced than we traditionally think. But whether they were advanced or not they understood the above command but refused to listen. I don't think God was pissed that they disobeyed, deciding to punish them like children. I already speculated in my first post upon the reasons why God might have taken action on this occasion.

I have trouble today with the concept of our free-will. Today is nothing to do with God, its the State and politics that control our free-will and human rights, which are being grabbed away from us in order to protect those at the top of the pile who wish to stay there and don't want the masses turning against them because they control and restrict for profit, the commodities we all need to live and also benefit when they can arrange wars to be fought, not only to cull our populations but also to grab someone else's assets and, this is where we came in, isn't it?

God lets the elite have free will too, they want the same as Nimrod, but what limits them most is that they can't control our free will. They try to by conditioning us through media and religion and science. They resort to the tactics you describe in the above quote to bring about their one world sytem. The missing pice is consolidating the communications. Sadly some of the controls they need are already in place, with the monitoring and censoring of the internet.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: andy06shake

Why any omnipotent being or God would require anything form Man is beyond my understanding. Never mind our allegiance and/or participation in genocide in the name of such an entity. Me strongly suspects that's more to do with organised religion than the will of any creator.

Why do God/Gods always require Humans to do their bidding if there so omnipotent?

There ether jealous or afraid of our potential. I suppose that's what happens when you create another in your own image.

Sorry I know this isn't a religion thread but I really feel compelled to respond to this comment. See the thing is, God doesn't require anything from us, not praise not sacrifice not ritual not religion not anything! The thing we need to understand is that God is love and sees us as his/her children who he loves unconditionally! We don't have to do anything else except accept that unconditional love, of course that love doesn't give us a license to go do whatever we want and hurt eachother, we need to love each other without judgment just as God does. This is the essence of Jesus's message. Just accept and be free!
just my two cents for what its worth.

As for the tower of babel is it possible that God was trying to teach them that nothing we do can get us to heaven, that it is by his grace alone? And that by persisting in the foolish pursuit of trying to reach heaven on our own understanding we could end up opening doors that should not be oppened? Releasing into the world things we are not yet mature enough to handle?
Perhaps God was simply trying to delay us in our path of self destruction?
Just a thought

a reply to: berheal

Working under your premise that God does not require anything from Man, who apparently he created in his own image. Why then does organised religion imply that eternal damnation or at the very least purgatory awaits any and all who choose not believe or convert?

One would think given the fact that we are indeed all his children, hence he/she/it is in part responsible for our actions heaven would be a given for all. Considering this unconditional love of which you speak.

My personal perspective is that no priest, rabbi or minister is required for us to commune with our creator, simple prayer will suffice, best to keep any and all organised religion at an arms length.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: berheal

Working under your premise that God does not require anything from Man, who apparently he created in his own image. Why then does organised religion imply that eternal damnation or at the very least purgatory awaits any and all who choose not believe or convert?

One would think given the fact that we are indeed all his children, hence he/she/it is in part responsible for our actions heaven would be a given for all. Considering this unconditional love of which you speak.

My personal perspective is that no priest, rabbi or minister is required for us to commune with our creator, simple prayer will suffice, best to keep any and all organised religion at an arms length.

thanks for your post, let's just assume for a moment that whatever our personal beliefs, that we really do have a creator God who wants to simply love on his kids, now imagine if all of humanity accepted that love and freely communed with this loving creator, allowing him to bless them and teach them and well be everything we need? Do you think there would be any need for temples then? Any need for say consumerism? Kings? Government? Schools? The very fabric upon which our current system would fall apart! And who created this system? Who rules this world? Who sits upon their wealth like a jealous dragon desperate to hold on to their material possessions and keep the world thinking that very wealth is to be desired? Who needs all of humanity to be at war with each other and angry at God?
So yes there are shepherds who would lead the flock away from the truth, yes there are organizations set up to cause people to hurt so deeply that they would turn away from communing with God and stay locked in the current system. And yes we would do well to stay away from these.
But there are people and places that are genuine in their love and who do help the community, if not for them I would still be lost. In my opinion any church that preaches hell fire should be avoided like the plague, there time of purification will come....

My point is that we can't and shouldn't blame the parent for the child's bad behavior, some kids will do what they set out to do no matter what their parent says, they will build that tower higher than they can cope with and then when it comes crashing down they will turn to mummy or daddy and say "why did you let this happen!"... You know what I mean?

a reply to: berheal

"Thanks for your post, let's just assume for a moment that whatever our personal beliefs, that we really do have a creator God who wants to simply love on his kids, now imagine if all of humanity accepted that love and freely communed with this loving creator, allowing him to bless them and teach them and well be everything we need?"

That's not a question is an assumption. If God is indeed omnipotent then he/she/it could make this happen at will, with or without Humanity's consent or even awareness being an issue. And I don't accept freewill as an answer, nothings free, will requires sacrifice and conviction.

"Do you think there would be any need for temples then?"

Just from an aesthetic perspective humanity will always build structures that represent one thing or another aka temples, we are rather vain in that department. Personally I hold the limbic system of our brain responsible for our notions of vanity and pride.

"Any need for say consumerism? Kings? Government? Schools?"

Schools governments are pretty much there to install the basic control constructs TPTB require you to have embedded into your/our personas there will always be a need for those. As to Kings and consumerism, those are figure heads and a free pass into heaven if i'm not mistaken.

"The very fabric upon which our current system would fall apart!"

Look out any window, buddy the world's not exactly holding it together these days!

"And who created this system? Who rules this world? Who sits upon their wealth like a jealous dragon desperate to hold on to their material possessions and keep the world thinking that very wealth is to be desired?"

A very select few rules this world aka Illuminati scum aka TPTB aka generally all of our current political party's in power right now.

"Who needs all of humanity to be at war with each other and angry at God?"

Let me guess Satan/Lucifer is responsible? Its not like Humanity is capable of screwing things up all on our own eh?

Always some one else to blame, never us at fault, petulant child race that we are. And Christians wonder why our creator can't be bothered to show face one possible answer is that we are an embarrassment.

a reply to: Verum1quaere

I'm not saying some of those people do not have dubious backgrounds, then again anybody the TPTB may wish to discredit generally turns out to have a suspect history or have all sort of emotional, educational, psychological, even sexual proclivities called into question.

I don't know what to believe these days which is probably exactly how "They" want it!

Or maybe i'm just paranoid and there is no "They" and our respective nations really only have all our best interests at heart.

a reply to: Ollie769

Aaah yes, I've read up on this Chronicle Project. I will recap it again.

I think I came upon this reading when I did the 22 Tasty Little Morsels of Light thread.

leolady

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: berheal

"Thanks for your post, let's just assume for a moment that whatever our personal beliefs, that we really do have a creator God who wants to simply love on his kids, now imagine if all of humanity accepted that love and freely communed with this loving creator, allowing him to bless them and teach them and well be everything we need?"

That's not a question is an assumption. If God is indeed omnipotent then he/she/it could make this happen at will, with or without Humanity's consent or even awareness being an issue.

"Do you think there would be any need for temples then?"

Just from an aesthetic perspective humanity will always build structures that represent one thing or another aka temples, we are rather vain in that department. Personally I hold the limbic system of our brain responsible for our notions of vanity and pride.

"Any need for say consumerism? Kings? Government? Schools?"

Schools governments are pretty much there to install the basic control constructs TPTB require you to have embedded into your/our personas there will always be a need for those. As to Kings and consumerism, those are figure heads and a free pass into heaven if i'm not mistaken.

"The very fabric upon which our current system would fall apart!"

Look out any window, buddy the world's not exactly holding it together these days!

"And who created this system? Who rules this world? Who sits upon their wealth like a jealous dragon desperate to hold on to their material possessions and keep the world thinking that very wealth is to be desired?"

A very select few rules this world aka Illuminati scum aka TPTB aka generally all of our current political party's in power right now.

"Who needs all of humanity to be at war with each other and angry at God?"

Let me guess Satan/Lucifer is responsible? Its not like Humanity is capable of screwing things up all on our own eh?

Always some one else to blame, never us at fault, petulant child race that we are. And Christians wonder why our creator can't be bothered to show face one possible answer is that we are an embarrassment.

I don't think you get that on most points we pretty much agree, just in different ways, I'm saying just like you that we don't need any of the institutions that we rely on to shape our spiritual, mental and material existence but there is a force that thrives on our dependance. The world is in chaos yes, because of our dependence on a system that relies on chaos to keep us dependent. And it is this system (one beast many incarnations) that God has been trying to help us break free from right from the get go.
Satan? I never used that word, I think it does exist because evil exists, but I don't like to dwell on it and give it any unnecessary energy. I was referring not to an invisible enemy of humanity but a physical entity that has its claws in all areas of society... You know, the true kings and queens of the world.
As for could God force us to commune with him(her, whatevs), what do you mean? Connecting with a person who is only talking to you because they have to is not a good foundation for a relationship. A relationship with someone starts when both parties freely choose to communicate. And with all due respect my knowledge of a God that loves me and only wants the best for me and you is not an assumption.
I'm not sure I have expressed myself all that well because I am tired and about to hit the hay, I just want to close by saying that no matter what you believe, no matter what you choose; God loves you!
Goodnight

a reply to: berheal

"I don't think you get that on most points we pretty much agree, just in different ways."

Were not disagreeing per say, just spitballing some of the larger questions that pray on all of our minds.

Goodnight to you also although it's almost midday where I hail from.

a reply to: r4inmaker

"The universal language is Love I believe."

I strongly suspect you may be incorrect, and that Mathematics is most lightly a lot closer to the mark regarding any universal language.

Love is a Human concept rarely exhibited in nature, if at all, beyond our own species. All the same i enjoy the sentiment behind your statement!

originally posted by: TheJourney
I think this is a metaphor for a once universal symbolic language.

Naaaah .... it's just another creation myth story that uneducated peasants made up in order to try to explain different languages around the world. (or, I should say, around the known world). Language developed around the world independently. People everywhere developed their own. There was no one universal language ... ever.

Genesis 11
7Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” 8So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 

Acts2:
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment/confusion, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,b 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

Genesis 11:
8So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9That is why it was called Babel —because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

What I find interesting about the Prophet Jesus. Is the fact that in respect to cultures that in respect to the Israelites, that were near, all had God(s), that could raise the dead.

So, a real good question under the circumstances is,what was the problem with Jesus Christ???

See from my perspective whatever the problem was in that regard, relates to Gods Wrath in the Book of Revelations.

To be apparent it seems Jesus Christ was not considered Good Enough.....

Any thoughts?

a reply to: TheJourney
I was talked into taking a Jewish studies course concentrating on the Kabbalah with my Mom a few years back and got hooked enough to stick with it for a time. It finally took a few weird twists and I got whipsawed out but have kept the notes I had.

One thing I remember is that each letter or symbol of the Aleph-Bet when pronounced correctly had a power unto itself much like Tibetan Ohms and other tonal utterances have. There is SO, SO much we've forgotten over the ages!

The other thing that peaked my interest is the frequency with which the teacher touched on things that sounded exactly like what Edgar Cayce spoke about as written by his biographer in the book "There is a River". I didn't dare mention it to the teacher who was very Orthodox but the similarities were too striking to ignore. I'd read many Cayce books prior to attending those classes.

I can prove to you, or teach you the system you speak of. Over the next year I will be releasing a system given to me by another. I can without doubt or speculation a system composed of ONE single image from which I will show how numbers, letters, musical scale ,braille systems are a part. Ever wonder why their are pyramids found globally? this system is unlike any before it having both 2D and 3D formats writing formats. I am going to be preparing to release the initial presentation around 06/15/15 as instructed by the ones whom provided myself this gift. And a gift it truly shall be and in due time I will be sharing it with you.

a reply to: XpyramaX

Dont you just love Mother Nature in all of her wonder?

Bring it forth , remember to post up here please.