You're hired. Now you're fired.

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posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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I deal with subcontractors on a daily basis, and I negotiate rates ahead of time for a reason. If they ask for more than was agreed upon at the end of the job I kindly inform them that I will only be paying the negotiated rates and that's it. (Unless there was additional work that had to be performed, then I am more than fair with compensation)

I never go over business practices with a new sub, let alone a sub that has worked with me for a while. Your business is your business, there is no need to inform anyone besides the people that need to know how you operate. If he doesn't like it he will move on.

Once in a great while I will come across someone that truly impresses me with not only their work ethic, but their performance, and then and only then I will kick them a bonus with their originally negotiated payment.

I know it sounds kinda hardcore to be this way, but if you aren't you will quickly be taken advantage of once they see that they can manipulate the terms of your arrangements.
edit on 6/14/2014 by SpaDe_ because: added line




posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: digital01anarchy

LMAO. It was 8 drops and I shouldn't need to bring my tone generator in with me cause my standards wouldn't require me to use it. Label removed? You mean the black sharpie writing which I always put 3 or more down the cable? I've always got my bix, 110, side cutters, wire stripper in my side pouch on me at all times. WTF do I need to bring my crimper in for? I'm not using RJ-45 mod ends and yes, I did the patch panel. LOL it seems you're talking out of your ass. Trying so desperately to find a flaw in my work ethic. Dude, I could run circles around you and have the job done before you finished taking out your first ceiling tile.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger

Thanks. Good advice



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

Youre welcome sir. It just pays to realize there are folks out there who will play you and get what they can outta you for their own ends.

Even by accepting a job from you, working a couple days, learning your business, methods and connections...and take them for themselves.

But don't discredit the hardworking folks out therewho would be loyal and do anything for you...just to get and keep a job.

There are more of them, then the other kind.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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well I am not a contractor so my comment might not carry as much weight as others. But if this was the guys first day on the job and I know he has experience but you are sometimes a bumbler on the first day yout working with someone. you have nerves and all that. Maybe he is not as bad as his first day said about him?



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo

originally posted by: OrphanApology
a reply to: FlySolo

If I were in position I would keep him on as originally agreed until I found a better replacement then let him go.


The "letting go" part is what I'm afraid of. Typically in this industry, "letting go" means no phone calls and no work. Just disappear. I hate that and I'm not sure what I would say to the guy. "Sorry, it's not working out" I guess.



If you're like this with employees, I'd hate to see your break-ups.


But seriously, I agree with Orphan. If you really feel it's the best thing, find a better helper and replace him.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

My first question to you is - did he offer any references and did you check with them. In the US, you can legally really tell anything more then: "yes - they did work for me at this job with this pay range and whether or not they are for eligible for rehire".

Second, pay him what you initially agreed to. If he has 'issues', pay him and don't call him back. After one day of 'okay' work he is in no position to negotiate anything with you nor ask about any material details of your business.

He may just be attempting to get his own business off the ground and checking prices and such from nearby potential competetors.




edit on 14-6-2014 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

Maybe you are a little too soft. Just do the best for your business, that's what that guy is doing too.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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I think he sounds a bit shifty and I wouldn't use him again. Darn cheeky! Possibly you should have told him the rates up front better than you did.

I had a bad experience with a caregiver I hired to help me couple of days a week. At first she was free, sent to me by the Govt. She hinted when the free ride is over she can be hired privately. So I did at $30 an hour, cash. Plus tips and extras too numerous to list. She was good at first but started doing no shows. The car broke down my brother got in an accident. All lies! So I am contemplating getting rid of her but no idea where I can find another private one since they don't advertise much. Then she comes here bawling her eyes out, you need to pay me more , I'm getting ripped off and want $45 an hour, still cash. I told her the cash paying method was getting on my nerves and her response was " I will have to report it and get taxed. I said well I would like to claim it and get some money back. She got me so upset I fired her. Told her she just stepped over a dollar to pick up a dime. I hired another person from Craig's list. Of course she ( the no show one) soon realized she made a grave mistake trying to get more money from me. She kept asking for her job back. No way!


It really is hard to fire someone though. In your case you said it was on a trial basis. So you need to stick to your guns. I learnt my lesson and the next caregiver was told she was on a one month trial. I had my daughter take charge this time as well because I think being in charge myself put me in a position to be taken advantage of. This way my daughter can say " step into my office cos you're #ing fired!" If they knew my kids were watching, they might not do this to me. That's how cons operate, they first make sure your kids are out of the picture.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

SO I have no experience in your field of work. I have had several employees in my life so far though and dealt with many more for other people.

I can tell you this:

Its your damn business. You can be nice, fair and just but you dont have to feel you owe anyone anything.

Here is a simple rule of thumb.

"be good without being an ass. Be firm without being an asshole."

If he is asking for too much, TELL HIM. Don't let things fester and explain exactly what you expect of him. He has to know where you stand and where his place is. If not HE WILL overstep boundaries that you cant accept crossed. It wont be his fault if you dont tell him. Common sense is only common to you. Explain everything, be professional and FOLLOW THROUGH.

If you have an issue just tell him. If he does something you dont like point it out on the spot or as soon as possible.

You built your business. Dont let someone you just met tell you how to run it. ALSO, very important. KEEP YOUR SECRETS.

Your client list, your rates, all of it. If his job is instalation, tell him that its not his job to know when he asks. Also explain why you see it as inappropriate for him to ask. An adult should know enough to hear that and listen. A future problem waiting to happen will insist and play with your emotions and weaknesses once you explain your position.

Your best bet at this point is to just lay it all down and explain what has upset you. It is not the end of the world. If you are paying this man he should understand IN GOOD SPIRIT and carry on with the work he was hired for.

Also, what he said he wanted is what he should get. If he wants MORE then he needs to prove that he can produce it first and then some so it makes sense for you to give him more of your pie.

If not, he can open his own business and run it the way he wants and pay himself what he thinks fair.

Dont be a chump my friend. He needs you. Not the other way around.

Remember,

"Fair without being a schmuck, tough without being a hardass." or however you want to take it.

Good luck.
edit on 6 14 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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My ex was a contractor and if he didn't like the employee off they went. He was too soft sometimes though. One time he had the most aggravating employee on the planet. I said fire him. He didn't, so I did it myself. I never heard the end of it but it was the best thing to do. The guy was a weirdo, into the occult. Kept visiting every evening until all hours, calling my house and taking his weird # to my kids. He and his wife followed me if I went out. " oh fancy meeting you here" kind of thing. They stole photos out of my photo albums for some bizarre reason. He just creeped me out big time. I am a real softie myself, but piss me off or intrude in my space and I will unleash my inner bitch.


The thing is, if you sense there's something not feeling right, that's a sign it isn't. Go with your instincts on this one. Your inner voice will serve you well. Always go with your first thoughts.



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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Hello!

Sorry to hear about your sub troubles, sometimes people expect everything for nothing, due to a great sense of entitlement.

In my experiences I work as a foreman for a company who also turf's out a certain percentage of work, We have the contracts so they come to us for work, this isn't necessarily one guy we sub work out to it is generally 3 to 5 guys per crew, sometimes several crews per sub contractor. They are given a set rate per site to be completed, after we have shaved about 30 % off the top for our handling troubles.

Now it is their responsibility to make they're crews operate within said budget or they make no revenue.

One of the sub's a friend of mine runs a crew doing work that generally takes about 8 hours, they can do it punch free and in 6 hours, he himself makes 500 dollars a site and the two guys with him each make 400 a site. If they have a site with punch items, they go back on their time to fix it, mistakes cost money, make sure you're sub knows this, mistakes cost you money and takes away from your overhead however you handle that, making them go back, or you yourself going back, to ensure you have great customer service. And anytime you hire these guys, write it up in a contract.

What I have learned working in my industry, its all about covering your a$$. You don't want a lousy sub to cost you a contract that will be even more lucrative in the future, and or ruin your reputation and then you have lost future income.

Don't give him your rates, it's none of his business, you should always make money straight off the top when using a sub, even if he's working along side you, budget so that with his help you'll end up making more than you would if you put it in with your own time. With questions like, whats your time worth to you?

This is just my food for thought,

Best of luck,

High on the tower



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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What do you mean you want to fire me ... I thought we were bros.

I say get rid of him he doesn't seemed bothered to go back on his agreement , plus a lack of work ethic and lack of knowledge on the job making rookie mistakes I seriously think you would be better off with out his services . It will most likely cost you more in the long run .

Good luck ...



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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double post
edit on 14/6/14 by freedomSlave because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo


You're being too much of a softy.

This is a good first-time learning experience for you. The sub-contractor world is dog eat dog - and this guy is playing the game.

You (as the contractor) set the rate of pay based on the what the contract job gives allowance for. The sub will either take it or leave it.

And always ALWAYS draw up a written sub-contract agreement - even if the job is only for a day or two.

I'm assuming you didn't draw up any kind of contract agreement with this guy because you're asking if you should let him go after one day of unsatisfactory work. You wouldn't be able to do that unless you have these conditional stipulations in the contract.

All it takes is to get screwed over once because you didn't have a written agreement and you'll never make that same mistake again.

Sounds to me like he knows the game quite well.

If you don't know how to draw up a proper contract agreement, there are a ton of great templates on the internet that you can download for free, save onto your computer, and easily tweak to your individual needs. Most of them are in simple Microsoft Word format.



Edit to add:

I understand that you're used to working by yourself and this is your first time with hiring someone. But you need to understand that the minute you bring someone else into the picture, it's a whole different ballgame - legally and liability wise. You absolutely MUST have all your i's dotted and t's crossed.
edit on 14-6-2014 by CranialSponge because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: CranialSponge

I know written contracts are supposed to be the norm, but I've been subbing for a few telecom companies for about 4 years with nothing but emails and phone calls. Once I had a crude contract to do a cross-country job. The rest have all been based on trust. I'm actually surprised how often no one asks for anything, not even for credentials. A lot of them I haven't even met and are in other provinces. I get a WO and off I go. Speaking of emails, wouldn't they suffice as proof of agreements?



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo


Okay, now that we're back in action, I can finally answer your question:



Speaking of emails, wouldn't they suffice as proof of agreements?


It does in a way, yes. But from a legal standpoint it would only function like a "Letter of Intent". A contract lays out the full legal agreement of the work, pay, stipulations, etc. Whereas a letter of intent only functions as a type of trust agreement that the two parties have agreed to work with one another. A contract follows up the letter of intent to solidify the work agreement and detail all of the legalities.

These larger companies are able to get away with just shooting you a work order because they have all of their bases already covered in terms of liability, worker's compensation coverage for sub-trades, etc.

Whereas you are in a different boat.

You're just a "small fry" and cannot afford to take such risks. Anything could happen with a helper on the job... ie: he could fall off the ladder while fishing cable. And you would be held liable if this guy doesn't have his own self-employed WCB coverage. And if you don't have proper WCB coverage, that could get you into a heap of trouble with Workplace Health and Safety, etc.

And if he doesn't have his own coverage, and you don't either... you'll be paying out of pocket. Does this guy even have his own Worker's Comp coverage ? If not, do you have coverage for him ?

That just gives you an idea of the risks you take when you hire someone on (even for a short period).

A properly drawn up contract can eliminate all those risks.

Unfortunately, you can't operate like the larger companies, simply because you don't have the means to handle it should something go wrong like they do.

You don't have to worry about yourself working with just a work order (or e-mail agreement), but you do have to worry the minute you hire someone else on for that job.


Of course, it's completely up to you how you choose to run your business... I'm just trying to give you a little "heads up". I worked in the construction industry for 20+ years from both the contractor and sub-contractor positions. It can get nasty out there.



posted on Jun, 15 2014 @ 03:40 AM
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Since I have been in your position many times, allow me to give some advice.

As a field manager, I hire short term contractors regularly, and I have had hundreds of them.

Some will play you like a violin, and it immediately hit me that this guy has followed a regular pattern that I have seen many times before. He is a serial arsehole, and will cause you all kinds of trouble.

He starts work on a lie, he is incompetent, he has most likely seen enough of your operation to either poach some of your work, or tell his shady mates where your valuables are kept, lastly he resorts to almost blackmailing you to pay him more.

This guy has read you like a book, seen your weaknesses, and struck like a bird of prey on his first day!

Please please please do yourself a favor and let him go.

If you let him win now, he will keep scoring little wins over you, without you even knowing whats going on, until one day he moves on, takes half your business with him, and leaves you in a big pile of crap, most likely a lawsuit, and even bankruptcy.

There are good guys out there, keep looking, and when you do start someone give them a weeks trial, or even a day, and have a contract too.

And don't expect too much support from ATS, it is one of the most socialist platforms that I visit, where you are just trying to make a living, and probably care more for your customers than your income, some on here see you as some evil capitalist tycoon, and suggest you should double this poor guys money.

They are so far removed from reality, it is a joke.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: digital01anarchy
a reply to: network dude

you are aware that labing cable is just writing on it with a sharpie and that writing does come off sometimes right? and at the trunk you can have 100's of cables coming to the distrobution point? Mix ups do happen.



I am aware. Mix ups happen when somebody makes a mistake. They cost time. Time is money. The fewer mix ups, the better profit a job holds. If you were a new guy, (never done this before), then sure, you will need some leeway and training. If you walk in claiming to be "the guy", and you cannot run a small job and get them identified correctly, you may not be "the guy".

It's not incredibly difficult work, but you need to have some sense to deal with problems. The people with little to no sense can be identified really quick. It just sounded like this guy misrepresented his abilities. And then stuck his nose where it didn't belong.



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Watchfull

Thanks for your reply.

You know what I don't get? Large overzealous telecom companies bidding on national jobs without the manpower already in place. The company that hired me has 490 stores to complete before November. In the CC of my emails, there's only 6 contractors including myself to cover all of Canada. Some of the locations are 10 hr+ drives in remote areas of British Columbia and they don't want to pay travel time nor hotel/fuel/meal expenses. On top of that, when I send an email, I expect a response. I understand they are probably really busy but more likely than not, busy scrambling to find independents like myself who will agree to work 6 nights a week for the next 5 months. That's the only way they can meet their deadline. Unless, they hire a cable company with a crew. In which case, there won't be a profit margin for anyone.

Why do big Companies like Canadian Tire continue to do business with larger entities when it's really the small fries like myself who really do the work? Possibly because of the 60-day warranty I suppose and there is a large cost for material. But still, it's guys like me that do all the legwork and the larger companies don't have the manpower to cover an entire country. Corporations already know this.





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