You're hired. Now you're fired.

Uggh.

So I hired a guy in his late 40's. Ex Telus worker to assist me with a large Canadian Tire rollout pulling in data lines coming up. I put out an ad asking for rates and he came back with 20/hr and 10 years experience. So I interviewed him. I thought he might be undercutting himself I told him but I would like to try him out with me on a small office job. Day went so/so yesterday but I did have to carry most of the weight. He didn't label the cables properly, had some issues pulling the cable down while caught on the insulation. Not a big deal. Finished at 2:30 but asked to put him down till 3 pm. Still not that big of a deal. I paid his parking, gave him .25 km, shook hands and asked him to invoice me.

Then I get an email...
He asked I tell him my rates (so he could "drum up business" with his network of colleagues) and wants 25/hr because I said he was undercutting himself and what was it? .22/km or .45/ km?

Sooo here we go I guess. I've never had to hire anyone before so this is my first experience dealing with an employee (subcontract). Thing is, it really bugs my ass the guy wants me to tell him my rates and cut him into my business after just one day. I never divulged my rates and responded "depends on what you can bring to the table"

So now I'm getting this weird feeling. If he's got such a network of colleagues, then why does he need me? Just go on his own like I did and make your own business. He asked me about three times already how I go about marketing myself?

I can see he's down on his luck, and I only hired him because down the road I may need to bring on 2 junior techs and do two stores at once. Plus he's got field manager experience, so I'm giving him a shot. I also told him I can go as high as 25 but I need to complete a couple of 60,000 square foot stores with him first. Thing is, this job coming up is go go go. 10-11 hr non stop over three nights. I work fast and I need someone to keep up with me. I'm not sure he can. Now he wants me to "cut him in" ? Oh boy...what have I started here?

Any contractors have the same experience? What do you do, let them go or keep them on?

a reply to: FlySolo

While I wasn't in that field and was in financial/bookkeeping for me a good rule of thumb is to never take someone on or as you put it "cut them in" without first having contracts made up in regard to non-competition.

It sounds to me like this guy withheld information in regard to contacts and seems to be trying to infiltrate your business. I would keep him at arms length and keep your agreement with him as it has been. He agreed to 20 an hour and should not now be asking for more especially since his performance has been subpar.

If I were in position I would keep him on as originally agreed until I found a better replacement then let him go.

originally posted by: OrphanApology
a reply to: FlySolo

If I were in position I would keep him on as originally agreed until I found a better replacement then let him go.

The "letting go" part is what I'm afraid of. Typically in this industry, "letting go" means no phone calls and no work. Just disappear. I hate that and I'm not sure what I would say to the guy. "Sorry, it's not working out" I guess.

a reply to: FlySolo

I never personally hired someone, but I had to evaluate potential employees on two occasions. Here is what I learned.

First off, if you're uncomfortable with the idea of cutting him in - don't do it.
Tell him that honestly. If he doesn't understand it - you have your answer right away.

It is only fair to give him a chance to prove his worth for your business.
You said you work fast... it might be even worth it to invest in him and train him to fit your working style.

If it doesn't work out, you have to let him go.

a reply to: ColCurious

You're right. But firing someone must really suck. Not looking forward to the outcome of getting someone's hopes up then dropping them.

a reply to: FlySolo

That's exactly what you say.

Also one thing you might consider in near future is hiring someone to deal with contracts/human resource issues. Not just recommending because I was bookkeeper and did a lot of those services but sometimes it's good to hire someone to do that especially if certain situations make you uncomfortable(such as firing someone). Also helps place some disconnect between you and the employees in regard to these types of tough human resource issues.

a reply to: OrphanApology

Unfortunately, I'm in no position to hire any HR. I can only afford this guy once the CT rollout kicks in. Plus its a 65-90 day waiting period to get paid (for me). On my regular jobs, I work alone. Not enough profit margin to bring in a helper.

If this is sub-contract work, you're not "firing" anyone. Stick to your guns. Pay him what you originally said you would. And find someone else. You don't owe this guy anything and after one day he is trying to take advantage of you. If you cave, you're in some deep doo doo.

lol what is it with business owners expecting more from employees while not paying a wage that refects the hard work put into learning the skills they want. So what if he labled the cables wrong! You should have a tone generator to trace the cables back to the location then re-lable its a simple and easy fix. Data techs nowadays are expected to know networking,phone,video and audio and be able to trouble shoot! Finding jobs is a joke, you overbid or charge hourly to the tune of 110 to 120 an hour while you pay this guy what? 20 dollars an hour then cry when you have to pull more weight! Let me ask you something how much more weight did you pull? 10 percent 20 percent maybe 40 percent yet you dont cry when the check comes in do you? you made $80 per hour off him didnt you?

all business owners cry about the time period they get paid however you make a killing when the check shows up a month or two later. Im so damn tired of hearing about them crying and short changing their employees with tales of hardship. Basically you want someone to do the work for you while you collect the profits and schedule jobs

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
lol what is it with business owners expecting more from employees while not paying a wage that refects the hard work put into learning the skills they want. So what if he labled the cables wrong!

Silliest post ever. The guy couldn't even run the cables and you think he should be paid more? he even LABELED them wrong? That's the definition of incompetence. And you want to pay him the equivalent of $250K a year to run some cables? You could hire a kid, tie a cable to his foot, and promise him a Happy Meal if he makes it to "the light" on the other side and have a better job done. Running cable is a monkey job and it is not worth Field Engineer billing rates, which even the FE never sees. That's what you, OP, ought to be charging for your work--not what you should be paying the help.

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
lol what is it with business owners expecting more from employees while not paying a wage that refects the hard work put into learning the skills they want. So what if he labled the cables wrong! You should have a tone generator to trace the cables back to the location then relable its a simple and easy fix. Data techs nowadays are expected to know networking,phone,video and audio and be able to trouble shoot! Finding jobs is a joke, you overbid or charge hourly to the tune of 110 to 120 an hour while you pay this guy what? 20 dollars an hour then cry when you have to pull more weight! Let me ask you something how much more weight did you pull? 10 percent 20 percent maybe 40 percent yet you dont cry when the check comes in do you? you made 80 per hour off him didnt you?

Fishing much? I have a tone generator and I had to go retrieve it from the parking garage up the street and tone out the 3 of 8 cables he pulled in. Which took an additional 20-30 minutes of unnecessary time. It's COMMON practice to make sure you use a sharpie and mark the damn drop before it leaves the box so you DON'T have to tone it out. Someone with 10 years of experience should know this. As for my rate, I'm taking a $10 hit per hour just to accommodate his rate and I'm FAR from making 80/hr off of him. You're in lala land if you think a single low voltage contractor is making 100/hr. That's company rates. The job was a quote and I'm paying hrly wages. Think about it.

a reply to: schuyler

He didn't label them at all.

a reply to: digital01anarchy

You live in fantasy land. If you cannot do the simple task of labeling the cables right, then it's almost guaranteed that you will screw up the harder tasks when given them. When working in the big boy world, you either get it right, or someone else will.


OP, sounds like this guy is trying to get in your pocket. You worked hard to get the jobs you have. I know that, because I am in the business and I know how hard these jobs are to come by. I'd find a hungry kid with some good sense, and give him a chance to learn. (if you can be patient enough to teach).

Good luck, and keep doing what you are doing.

a reply to: schuyler
lol I actually know people who do the job and its much harder then you would ever know! your the kind of ahole who believes he can do anything himself until he drills into electrical,burns the cables on the run, runs the cable on top of copper pipe and finishes the job with it not working and looking like crap lol. monkey job lol! I heard a guy once talk like you until the wife told him to shut up and if he didnt like paying the price then do it himself! you know what he did? He shut the hell up! Because he didnt know the first thing about it. Field managers lol 90 percent of the time their reports are wrong and have to be reworked so they actually work. Please tell me im wrong i dare you!

a reply to: network dude

you are aware that labing cable is just writing on it with a sharpie and that writing does come off sometimes right? and at the trunk you can have 100's of cables coming to the distrobution point? Mix ups do happen.

a reply to: FlySolo
I do know a company that makes that rate! and thats a pretty commom rate in commercial jobs like the one you had

If he cant keep up and is already asking for more .. fire him otherwise he will do a poor job and bleed your company dry .. plenty of people needing work these days you can find someone thats a better worker and wont bleed you dry.

a reply to: digital01anarchy

Then good for them. They can pay their TOP guys 25/hr. It doesn't get any higher than that. Plus, they're dealing with big companies at big company rates. Small time one-man shows dealing with the regular guy are no where near large cable company rates. And you want to call me cheap? lol. I'm affordable. Not to mention, the WCB fees are coming out of my pocket.

a reply to: FlySolo

wait you ran the cables without having a tone generator on you at the job? Your saying you had it in your van? How long have you been doing this job? What if the lable got removed on the run lets say on metal flex conduit what then? was your punch tool on you? how about your crimper? How many boxes did you use? was he terminating at patch panel or did you?

a reply to: FlySolo

You are being played sir. The whole things stinks a bit. You owe him nothing and youre not his friend. Cut him loose, dont look back or worry about it.

And go back to interviews. You have every right to hire, fire, keep or not...anyone. He'll get over it. And youll eventually find the right person.

Good luck