Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

What are the keys of the kingdom?

page: 3
15
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join

posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 05:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: jmdewey60
" leadership being displaced was actually that of those who studied and tried to observe the Law."
I wouldn't try to make a direct link between the two things.

Well, I would make a direct link between the two, because of the verbal parallels between "keys of the kingdom" in this verse and the references to "keys" and "opening the kingdom" already noticed elsewhere in the gospels.
I think it would be a mistake to dismiss the connection too cavalierly.

edit on 14-6-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 06:19 PM
link   
It is easy to know...

"Keys" are symbol of authority. Christ speaking to Peter, Jesus names Peter head of His Church on earth.

Our Lord reveals in the previous verse, verse 17, how we can be assured God guides Peter, meaning the teachings of Christ would and could be known even to this day. The Pope is a sinner, we ALL are but in matters of faith and morals he CANNOT error.

Matthew 16:17-19
Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.


www.drbo.org...



posted on Jun, 14 2014 @ 10:35 PM
link   
a reply to: colbe

"Keys" are symbol of authority.
It is symbolic of being a trustee to be given keys.
The one giving them has the authority.

Christ speaking to Peter, Jesus names Peter head of His Church on earth.
Jesus could barely get one of his own disciples to acknowledge him as the Messiah, so he was hardly in position to go handing out authority over the (then nonexistent) church.

edit on 14-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2014 @ 07:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: infoseeker26754
a reply to: Wifibrains

Now one might want to be careful opening Doors!

It's a good thing wanting to open them just finish with the Door you opened First! I feel most doors anyway just open up an aspect of yourself one needs to work on. Either good or bad, views need to be questioned from time to time, things once held dear have changed, ideas so old if not checked. Lead to problems later.


Good advice. All doors that I mention are internal, and they are indeed different aspects of "being". I suspect that many doors are individualised, but lead to a space that is the same for everyone.

Our natural state of being?



Plus if opening many doors just to find a way in only confuses you later! Might have forgot what door goes to where and get everything mixed up. Sometimes just opening a door might change your life faster then one is ready.

Peace



If designed and built around the original blueprint(the self) there should not be a problem forgetting... Unless there are aspects of yourself you are unaware of. You could lead yourself astray I suppose.

They sure do bring about change! For better or worse depends on individuals perception. Being out of balance can be catastrophic as underlying and suppressed personality begins to surface...
edit on 15-6-2014 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 05:16 PM
link   
PS This promise was a response to Peter's declaration, "You are the Christ, the son of the Living God".
There wasn't space in the OP to observe that this phrase, "the Living God", is one of the Old Testament titles of the God of Israel.
In other words, this declaration and the acceptance of it by Jesus provides further confirmation of the point that The God of Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, as discussed in the earlier thread.

edit on 16-6-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2014 @ 09:35 PM
link   
Interesting topic, from my view the first key was used on Pentecost 33 CE but only on Israelites (Jews), the second on Samaritans, interestingly an almost extinct religious group today (800 in the world). The third and final key was used on the Roman Cornelius in 36 CE, the first recorded gentile to convert. This key in my opinion is the most important as it opened the truth of the gospel and conversion up to all peoples of the earth. When before only God's chosen people and some closely related to them had the opportunity. But it was a very narrow window from 29 CE( Jesus Baptism) to 36 CE.



posted on Jun, 17 2014 @ 05:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
What's the justification for restricting the keys to specific occasions and limiting the occasions?
My concept is that the key gets used evry time somebody enters the kingdom (that's how they get in).



posted on Jun, 17 2014 @ 07:17 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

I understand what you are saying but it was Peter that was given the symbolic keys, and once used and the door was opened it would never be closed again as the keys were for groups, not individuals, this all had to be accomplished within Peters lifetime which means the first century.



posted on Jun, 17 2014 @ 07:47 PM
link   
I said earlier that the keys was symbolic of a transfer from what was considered the kingdom, to what was now the true kingdom, a spiritual one that exists within all the members of it.

The "resistance" clause of the transfer deed means there will be no future transference to some other type of newer kingdom.
That may not be popular with Futurists who see the present world as only temporary.
(your current mortal life is of course temporary)

My advice is for all futurists is to give it up and to accept Jesus as Lord and to wait no longer to enter the kingdom of God.

edit on 17-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 06:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: jmdewey60
The "resistance" clause of the transfer deed means there will be no future transference to some other type of newer kingdom.

I don't see that it means anything of the kind.
How does "You won't be prevented from entering" come to mean "You won't be moving on further later"?
But in any case the expectation of the Return of Christ does not involve (except among the pre-millemialists) "some kind of newer kingdom".
The future expectation would rather be for an extension and continuation of the kingdom that is already available to us.
Or alternatively, putting it the other way round, the kingdom we enter now is an early experience of the future kingdom.



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 08:10 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

I don't see that it means anything of the kind.
I mean the second part of the verse that says that Hell will not prevail against it.
That the church has a resistance to being prevailed upon.

. . . the kingdom we enter now is an early experience of the future kingdom.
Which is . . ?

edit on 18-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: jmdewey60
I mean the second part of the verse that says that Hell will not prevail against it.

Yes, that's what I thought. I must repeat, I don't see how it can bear the meaning you're trying to give it.
You haven't explained how moving on to a further kingdom would be an example of Hell prevailing.
If a further kingdom is not an example of Hell prevailng, then the statement that Hell will not prevail is not relevant to the question of whether a further kingdom will happen.

" the kingdom we enter now is an early experience of the future kingdom."
Which is . . ?

The same one.
The supposition is that the kingdom is eternal, so the kingdom which we experience now is the same kingdom that will prevail in the future.
The fact that we are experiencing it now is what makes it an early experience

edit on 19-6-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 03:44 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI


Do you see these keys as being in some sense as keys to the City gates were that City is the New Jerusalem that descends from Heaven to Earth at the end time...?

It would interest me that what is in effect involved is the creation of an idealized City State complete with Shepherd King, thus in effect the greater point of the whole Christian exercise being a test of whether one would make a worthy citizen of such, though questions of faith and loyalty toward the King, social conscience and mutual consideration of one's fellow citizens.

I recently looked at the Sumerian cult of Nanse, a daughter of Enki, her cult was heavily involved with that which maintains balance and harmony within society and many of the major themes of the Gospels can be sourced from it, in that it involved caring for the orphan and the widow and those marginalized from society, paying ones taxes and not being negligent of religious and civic duties, that it was the heart of an individual that determined their actions toward others, and this was a cult of the fishermen.

In Sumeria then both the Shepherd King and the Fisher Queen as it were are children of Enki or the Semitic Yah after Ea, Dumuzid and Nanse respectively, in Christianity this dichotomy is combined into a singular figure giving as is often noted the good shepherd and fisher of men, but both were essential aspects of maintaining the City State.

While the notion of the ideal City state is used in a more extended sense in the gospels to embrace the redeemed at the global level it still has the basis from thousands of years previous at the rise of civilization and is Mesopotamian in origin, a civilization that also had a very definite idea of were that City was located in the Heavenly sense in the form of the Pegasus square.

Maybe this all seems a little fishy....


A fish is held in her hand as a staff Fishes are put on her feet as sandals Fishes light up the interior of the sea like fires Fishes play on instruments for her like sur priests. Fishes call out loudly for her like oxen. She has fish wrapped around her body as a regal garment. The runner-fish hastens to her. The gurgur fish makes the sea surge up for her. The flash-fish makes the sea sparkle for her. She heaps up fish spawn so that fish will grow for her in the sea. Fishes fly around for her like swallows
edit on Kam630169vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1930 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 03:44 AM
link   
Double post pooh pah...


edit on Kam630169vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1930 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 04:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Do you see these keys as being in some sense as keys to the City gates were that City is the New Jerusalem that descends from Heaven to Earth at the end time...?

Jesus is talking in terms of getting into the kingdom now, so the door is metaphorical.
But it's fair to see a connection with the New Jerusalem, which is an image of the same kingdom in a more complete state.
The essential feature of it (as Revelation makes clear) is "being with God".



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 06:28 AM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

You haven't explained how moving on to a further kingdom would be an example of Hell prevailing.





That's what happened at the end of the old age, and the beginning of the new age.
That was "Hell prevailing".
Our present age was formerly the future "Kingdom Come".
Now it is the Kingdom that will not experience a similar demise as the old experienced.
I recommend that everyone read Josephus' book, The Wars of the Jews for a detailed description.
You don't have to buy a book, but can read it online or on PDF.
edit on 19-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:51 AM
link   


Let him with eyes too see, and a mind too understand,
spot the clues given in the pic below,



Its an apostle's sea.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 06:00 PM
link   
a reply to: jmdewey60
Dictionary definition of "prevail";
"Gain the mastery, be victorious".
If Hades does not gain the mastery and become victorious, then Hades does not prevail.
If Hades does not prevent people from entering the kingdom, then Hades does not prevail.
If Christ returns and establishes a "new Jerusalem", then Hades does not prevail.
You cannot rationally interpret "Hades shall not prevail" as "there will be no future New Jerusalem", because there is no rational connection between the two statements.

And nobody is suggesting that the present kingdom of God will be replaced by another one; a future expectation involves the belief that the present kingdom of God continues and becomes more complete.
Onky your perverse approach to language could manage to twist the statement "Hades will not prevail" into a proof that "God will not prevail".



edit on 19-6-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:42 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Dictionary definition of "prevail";
"Gain the mastery, be victorious".
The Greek definition includes: to be strong, with the idea of being strong enough for something, where it can be extended to mean stronger than your adversary, then further extended to be strong enough to overcome an opponent.

The word, as it is found in this verse, is parsed as:
Verb, Future tense, Indicative mood, Active voice, 3rd Person, Plural.
Another verse I found that has a word that uses the same form is,

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
(2011 NIV)

Which to me is similar in that it is talking about a thing or things, rather than people, doing something.

If you look at the Septuagint version of
Genesis 49:24
But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
(2011 NIV)

what you find is this same Greek word from Matthew for prevail or overcome, being used for "the rock of".
It is difficult, at least to me, to figure out what it means, but the NIV translator apparently takes it as meaning "God" by how it capitalizes it.
Seeing how it is talking about Jacob, then it makes sense that "the Mighty One of Jacob" is someone else.
So it is interesting that you find this word in the same verse in the NT with the word "rock".

. . . your perverse approach to language . . .
You say that as if it was a bad thing.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:57 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

If Hades does not prevent people from entering the kingdom, then Hades does not prevail.
I don't get your-tie in from elsewhere about the teachers of the Law. (I do, but see it as secondary and only as an adjunct)
I don't see that as interpreting what keys Peter was given.
You keep beating this dead horse to get more mileage from it when it is irrelevant.
The kingdom as it existed at the time Jesus said that was weak because they had stopped following God and followed their own book of rules and procedures to make themselves rulers.
The new kingdom was strong because it is based on faith, something that connects us to God through Jesus.
That replaced the old temple cult, and that kingdom exists today, and will last forever because it is stronger than the destructive forces of the world.

If Christ returns and establishes a "new Jerusalem", then Hades does not prevail.
There is no future New Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem is what we are in now as members of the church.
edit on 19-6-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)






top topics



 
15
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join