Cows and Idealism

I love what you wrote Mis. BUT.. People have funny ideas about cows. There is more to it than what youre saying. Cows have a very very wide range of abilities and feelings. They arent just our docile sweet giver of meat milk and clothing ( and some medicinal thingies). The true worship of the cow could only come from a person or a people with an intimate knowledge of the cow... and all of her attributes. Thats pretty well not done these days. Commercial farming and etc have distanced people from them.

As far as Idealism.. a cow is the "ideal" animal for humans. Ill vote for whomever promises a cow in every pot.


Humans tasting okay? I imagine. Ive tossed around the idea of writing a human cookbook. Im finding that the perfect seasoning for human meat is... Bay leaves and freshly ground black pepper to offset the sweetness of the meat. When the zombie apocalypse comes and the zombies have eaten all the animals... I will seek out an Italian. I understand (after research for my cookbook) that Italians have a more mild garlic taste.. and more Omegas.

cows are always doing something bad

I have seen them on television, I wasn't really paying attention, but it seemed to me they were advocating new modern "anything goes because I am a stupid animal" Common Core spelling reforms and urging genocide against chickens...the cow is indeed the privileged white male of the food pyramid, sporting four stomachs while other farm denizens have to get by with only one

shed no tears for Citizen Cow

a reply to: AfterInfinity

The latest rant on the woes and evils of ideology. I thought I'd already explained how everything you enjoy today is a result of ideology. We are not neanderthals, we do not behave like neanderthals, and we do not aspire to become neanderthals. This is the result of ideology. We imagine, we dream, we strive, we achieve. Without ideology, we'd still be grunting in caves, shaking sticks at the booming sky lights.

I think, perhaps, your critical perspective ought to be more focused on the characters pushing ideology in such a manner as to give it a bad name. Ideology, by itself, does nothing. It requires a mind to process it, to act on it, to enforce it. Why are we not focusing on those minds, rather than the tools they employ? Taking away a madman's gun does not stop him from being a madman. And yet, we'd rather focus on an inanimate hunk of metal rather than the mind that was directing it. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

This thread isn’t about ideology. It’s about idealism, although they necessarily tie in together. Besides, I didn’t agree with what you earlier explained. Ideology has no arms, legs or any power to lift any species out of the dark ages. Like you said, it does nothing, and is only (conceptually, not actually) a by-product of human beings. The ideology I write about critically is the ideology as elucidated by Marx, not any sort of specific idea someone has. In this vein, the prevailing ideologies, namely society, form man in its image instead of the other way around. These ideologies reduce a human to a mere subject, confining them to specific roles and properties, thereby stifling creative progress. It’s not that ideology is evil, it’s just that it is a structure of dominance, and makes society out to be godlike, when it is but a mere artifact.

The originator of the word was De Tracy, who reformed the trivium from its original logic, grammar and rhetoric, to logic, grammar and ideology, which I say is the downfall of modern education (I’m writing a thread on this), and it was Napoleon who coined the meaning of De Tracy’s “ideology” into the word we use today.

Focus on minds all you want, but I bet you’ll never solve anything, nor discover anything to talk about adequately but your own thoughts. The “mind” is one such ideal and a good example of what I’m talking about. The “mind” is idealism, being that it exists as an idea only, and represents an ideal conception of mental activity according to folk psychology. If we see value in such abstract ideals over the real and tangible for the sake of solipsistic comfort, we lose sense of what and where the actual value is, and we lose sense of the individuality and thus the inherent value of other people.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Besides, I didn’t agree with what you earlier explained. Ideology has no arms, legs or any power to lift any species out of the dark ages. Like you said, it does nothing, and is only (conceptually, not actually) a by-product of human beings.

A gun has no arms, no legs, and no power. But it does have an influence in the right hands. A good influence? A bad influence? That depends on who is holding it.

In this vein, the prevailing ideologies, namely society, form man in its image instead of the other way around. These ideologies reduce a human to a mere subject, confining them to specific roles and properties, thereby stifling creative progress. It’s not that ideology is evil, it’s just that it is a structure of dominance, and makes society out to be godlike, when it is but a mere artifact.

Godlike? Artifact? You might need to explain that a little more.

The originator of the word was De Tracy, who reformed the trivium from its original logic, grammar and rhetoric, to logic, grammar and ideology, which I say is the downfall of modern education (I’m writing a thread on this), and it was Napoleon who coined the meaning of De Tracy’s “ideology” into the word we use today.

So in reflection of the topic, am I to presume the relationship in the trivium, and its applications, changed when the words did? Change of word is change of definition, and changing a leg on a three-legged stool can cause major issues.

Focus on minds all you want, but I bet you’ll never solve anything, nor discover anything to talk about adequately but your own thoughts.

Talking so dirty, and you haven't even bought me a drink yet.

The “mind” is one such ideal and a good example of what I’m talking about. The “mind” is idealism, being that it exists as an idea only, and represents an ideal conception of mental activity according to folk psychology.

Just like the soul is idealism, but you'll still get upset if I shoot a puppy in front of you.

If we see value in such abstract ideals over the real and tangible for the sake of solipsistic comfort, we lose sense of what and where the actual value is, and we lose sense of the individuality and thus the inherent value of other people.

What abstract ideals are we talking about here?

I think I speak a different language. I was alluding to the docile sweet cow becoming a ravenous cannibal ... seen in and due to factory farming, overcrowding, etc. Anything can become anything... regardless of its nature. A thing cant change its "stripes" but it sure as hell can add a few. A docile herbivore becoming a cannibal.. stick that in your ideology and artifact.Ideology means nothing when you see.. everything can be anything ( given the right shove).

a reply to: AfterInfinity

A gun has no arms, no legs, and no power. But it does have an influence in the right hands. A good influence? A bad influence? That depends on who is holding it.

I apologize but I do not understand the analogy.

Godlike? Artifact? You might need to explain that a little more.

Society is human made. It can be changed. Yet the social structure chews up and spits out human beings, nature, and so on, at an alarming pace. Why?

Just like the soul is idealism, but you'll still get upset if I shoot a puppy in front of you.

I would be upset. A puppy is real and possesses intrinsic value. A soul does not. In fact, let's go out and shoot some souls.

What abstract ideals are we talking about here?

Any of them. I listed a number of them in the OP.

Not too many people worship the cow anymore

Because they are so much better to eat.

STEAKS PEOPLE !!!

New York T-bones !

Ribeyes !

Filet Mignon !

Good eatin' !

Their eyes are big and sweet, when they eat.
I don't know why.
Why can't I be a cow?
Anyhow... cows never cry.

I have worked on an organic dairy farm for a while. And what I just read there was one of the most beautiful and true things ever posted on ATS.
What a sick cruel world that would put Materialism before LIFE itself.
If only the most greedy would realize we are all in this meat grinder together.

Should we worship cows?

Veda tells to respect right to life of animals as the same soul dwells in animals as in humans. Animals have a right to die naturally as humans want to.

Veda does not tell to worship cows. The worship is reserved for God and God alone.

Veda tells humans to stay in their domain while animals are provided a separate domain. The cow is a special case - as a domestic animal which is closely tied to existence of humans. So cow gets human affection and care.

Killing for food begets sins and degenerates human society.

Idealism is simultaneously an obsession with and an attempt to escape the looming finality of death. It is an attempt to escape the ultimate finitude of humanity and life. The attempt to delimit that which is by definition limited. \

a reply to: neo96

Who says that you can't worship something and eat it too? Christians eat their god.

I do not think there is an inherent problem with idealism... in fact it represents man's attempt to improve himself, to continually reach for what he sees as "right." Without any sort of ideology, as AfterInfinity said, we might as well just be neanderthals grunting in caves.

I think the problem has to do more with the fact that, obviously, not every ideology is perfect, and neither are the people pushing them. There is a difference between what people "think" is right, and what actually is right. And it seems likely that a man's lower nature, his ego, may push him to support a particular ideology for his own gain rather than for what actually is right. Similarly, good ideologies may be warped in order to reflect an individuals own desires.

The outcomes of various ideologies reflect the mindset of the people pushing them, and vice versa: the mindset of the people creating them shapes the ideologies. Thus, for all the examples OP listed above of ideologies that failed/cause harm, the failure is not due to idealism itself, but due to flawed ideologies/individuals. Idealism has as much potential to cause good as it does to cause harm, and I think I would be safe in saying that you can judge the soundness of any ideology/individual by its fruit (note here there is a difference between simply understanding a sound ideology and actually embodying/becoming a figure of that ideology in present life... in which case you/your ideology would produce a fruit of some sort).

As for the worship of cows, I think it should be noted that the worship of cows would in fact be an ideology itself - one that just happens to place all of its value on a tangible entity (like materialism). Personally I think it would be wise to revere and respect the cow, as well as be grateful for all that it provides us with, however I hardly think the virtues of Cowness are enough to make up a complete ideology. Similarly I don't personally think that materialism is a sufficient or satisfying ideology, but that is beside the point and I don't particularly want to go into my reasons for that opinion right now.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Ok, chronologically, I'm not 12. But the regression is nearly complete!

Soon I will be four again, and then GOOD TIMES!

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just as an aside concerning sacred cows.

I can recall reading 'Between Moon and Moon' in which Robert Graves and Gordon Wassoon discuss the idea that 'soma' the food of the gods, was a mushroom that grows on cow dung. This being the hidden and original reason for bovine elevation.