The Sumerian King List Spans for Over 241,000 Years Before a Great Flood

a reply to: one4all

Say what? Sorry dude I'm not sure whether you were agreeing, disagreeing or discussing a recipe for General Tso Chicken.

a reply to: Ploutonas

One comment

His work is all about Sumerians and where they come from... (nobody speaks about it).

Sure they do the ancestry of the Sumerians was a hot subject in the late 19th century to the present day. The answer is no one presently knows but there were lots of theories.

My own is that they either came from the Zagros Mountain area or the upper reaches of the fertile crescent, south of Lake Van - pure speculation on my part however.

I suggest you look at the work of C. Leonard Woolley, Sir Arthur Keit and a whole lot of other people - avoid the Afrocentrist thou!

a reply to: Harte

In any case, read Atrahasis. Then read an account of Hurricane Katrina. And then imagine if Katrina had hit not the wealthiest, most advanced nation in history but an early bronze age culture ....

Tropical cyclones do threaten Oman and the mouth of the Persian Gulf. It is by no means inconceivable that one once ran up the Gulf to hit Mesopotamia. If it did, the storm surge, channelled by the Gulf, would be something we can barely imagine.

Or maybe the story originated elsewhere, just outside the Gulf perhaps, where even today tropical cyclones do make landfall with devastating effects?

In any case, my money is on a tropical cyclone.

I did write a simple paper on this many years ago, which an old friend Marduk (who remembers him?) posted on his website, but sadly the site no longer exists and the paper has been lost on long departed computers ....

originally posted by: AndyMayhew
a reply to: Harte

In any case, read Atrahasis. Then read an account of Hurricane Katrina. And then imagine if Katrina had hit not the wealthiest, most advanced nation in history but an early bronze age culture ....

Tropical cyclones do threaten Oman and the mouth of the Persian Gulf. It is by no means inconceivable that one once ran up the Gulf to hit Mesopotamia. If it did, the storm surge, channelled by the Gulf, would be something we can barely imagine.

Or maybe the story originated elsewhere, just outside the Gulf perhaps, where even today tropical cyclones do make landfall with devastating effects?

In any case, my money is on a tropical cyclone.

Then where is the evidence of a massive tropical cyclone? It certainly doesn't show up in any of the archaeological record which through river sediment deposits we can actually date fairly accurately when the flood event occurred as well as its origin and intensity.

Don't get me wrong, there were some pretty significant floods that had very averse affects in local cultures and yes there are flood stories from many civilizations but, and it's a really big but( I like them and I can not lie) but let's look at some geographic facts.

Many major civilizations sprung up around and depended on rivers and their civilizations were built upon them. Mesopotamia had the Tigris and Euphrates building the "Fertile Cresecent" Egypt relied on the Nile, Harrapan civilization was linked with Indus River and on and on.

When you're entire civilization depends on and is consequently affected by these rivers, even a moderate local flood is a game changer. There is no need to ascribe something fairly well known to a mystery cyclone for which there isn't any evidence.

All it takes for a localized flood event to become a massive worldwide event is the well know trade routes that existed and the sharing if ideas. Oh you guys had a flood that took 8 years to recover from? So did we, it must've been everywhere if it affected you, us and these guys across the bay.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew
I did write a simple paper on this many years ago, which an old friend Marduk (who remembers him?) posted on his website, but sadly the site no longer exists and the paper has been lost on long departed computers ....

I remember Marduk very well, along with his subsequent usernames.

See PM.

Harte

a reply to: Hanslune

Heres a question from me, why shall I look a research of an archeologist of the 19th century after christ... When we have references in first hand written 2600 years ago... lol

So thank you, but no thanks.

If you think that your historians and archeologists, are accurate, here is a quiz - fast answer... Who is the god of underworld/after life in ancient Greece... :p

originally posted by: Ploutonas
a reply to: Hanslune

Heres a question from me, why shall I look a research of an archeologist of the 19th century after christ... When we have references in first hand written 2600 years ago... lol

...and who might that be?

So thank you, but no thanks.

It's always a bad idea to limit your research area, lol

I dont limit it, I keep it safe and original. :p

Anyway, even if you could answer the quiz, it will be wrong. Because it is wrong the way you know things and teach you things.

In order for humanity to progress, we need cleansing and restoration.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Which is why I didn't answer you seem to be self appointed sciolist.

So what was your aged source?

The Sumerian king list(s)

The extreme long rule periods given for the pre-flood kings in Sumer somehow got to be wrong. They are all given as strange even numbers , and many of the numbers are exactly the same for many kings. Thus we can find that 28800 years are given for three of the kings and 36000 years are given for two of them.

The pre flood kings mentioned in the Sumerian king list(s) are also probably more or less identical with the biblical list of pre flood kings, because in a Sumerian text called “Suruppag and Sud” we can learn that the father of Siudsudra (Noah) is named Suruppag (Lamech) and that the father of Suruppag is named Ubara-tutu (Methusaleh) . Ubara-tutu is mentioned in the Sumerian king list(s) as the last pre flood king. We can thus conclude that all the pre flood biblical kings were Sumerians (“The black headed people”) and lived in ancient Sumer, and that they all were Sethites, which (in case somebody is confused) has nothing to do with the Jewish people which was created some 400 years after the great flood.

It is a common misunderstanding to believe that these long life spans also means long rule periods, because when everybody lives for a very long period, the rule periods are not that long. To show you what I mean , i will now show you how long the biblical kings actually ruled.

If we accept Adam as the first Biblical/Sumerian King , I will assume that Adam was appointed king at an age of about 450 years (I will explain why later) . Adam who lived until he was 930 years would then have ruled as king for a period of 480 years. Seth, his son then ruled for another 112 years. Enos then ruled 98 years. Cainan ruled 95 years. Mahalaleel ruled for 55 years. Jared ruled for 132 years, and Methuselah (Ubara-Tutu) ruled for 225 years. Noah however, probably only ruled for 9 years up until the great flood, but he is not mentioned on the king list(s) at all.
Enoch and Lamech never ruled , because Enoch left the Earth to join the Anuna Gods after having lived 365 years on Earth, and Lamech died before his father Methuselah.

Thus we can conclude that 8 biblical (pre flood) kings ruled for a total period of about 1200 years, Methuselah (Ubara-Tutu) being the last. As you can see, this total period is the same period that are given in the Babylonian text called “Atrahasis”. (see “Sumerian time line”)

If rule periods like those that are given for the pre flood kings In the Sumerian king list(s) were to be true, the actual life spans for those guys would thus have to be at least four or five times greater than their rule periods (or even more). We can now understand that they have to be wrong.

The Sumerian numeric system(s)

The ancient Sumerian numerical system(s) that we know of was sexagesimal (base 60) systems. They uses columns (or positions) to express the real value of numbers. The oldest system only used two signs to express all the numbers (Later post flood systems added a few more unique sign). The numbers 1 to 59 are thus reserved the rightmost position. The number from 60 to 3559 is reserved the second position and the numbers from 3600 to 215999 is reserved the third position, and so on. The sign used for 1, 60 and 3600 and so forth, are exactly the same, and it is thus only the spacing between the different columns that gives away the real values of the signs . The early systems didn’t even have a sign for zero. Also note that these are all post flood systems which were the ones that was used when the translation and copies were made of the lists that we still have around today.

Seeing how the system works, it is not difficult to imagine how different serious translation errors easily could occur. If some of the columns with numbers are slightly damaged or disturbed, that could cause the wrong columns with numbers to be added to the total as the spaces between numbers could have been disturbed.

We also know little about the pre flood Sumerian numerical system(s). For all we know they could have used a totally different system than the system mentioned above. If this were the case, and the translators and copymakers used the post flood system to translate the numbers, all pre flood numbers would come out wrong.

Berossus (living about 500bc) also introduced us to some other numerical words and values, which he called Sar (Sari or Sarus) , Neros and Sossus. They are probably all post flood numerical values as well. The numerical Sar should however not be confused with the Akkadian word Shar , which means “king”. According to Berossus the Sarus, Neros and Sossus should be understood as follows:

“Now a sarus is esteemed to be three thousand six hundred years; a neros six hundred; and a sossus sixty”.


Part One

Kingship

Another important issue we should be aware of when studying the king list(s) is that the custom of establishing kingship and the custom and system of nobilities, both are traditions that was initially invented by the Anuna Gods and later passed on to the human beings. In England the system has amazingly survived even up to our days. Also please note that the Anuna ods also are identical to the Biblical watchers.

When the black headed people eventually became numerous , the Anuna Gods was forced to introduce kingship to them as well. They probably did this because it became a problem for them to deal with so many human beings at a time. Thus it came about that the Anuna Gods singled out a group of the smartest and most capable of them and gave them education and training . Thus Adam became the first king and high priest of Sumer.

Having understood all of the above, we will now know that all the kings that are listed on the Sumerian king list(s) only are human beings (the black headed people) and various demigods. We should (in other words) not find the names of any Anuna Gods with royal bloodline on the list(s) , like Anu,Enlil and Enki and so forth as they got their own separate kingship .

The Sumerian nobilities

It was Anu who was the king of the Anuna Gods. However it is not unusual that other royal Anuna Gods were called kings and queens in special cities or areas in Sumer. Thus Enki (for instance) was titled king of the Absu or king of Eridug , and so forth. Thus we can also read that all the senior Anuna Gods that had tight ties to either Anu, Enlil or Enki was dubbed Lords , Princesses, Princes and Ladies. Thus the inner circle of people that belonged to the Anuna aristocracy got honorable titles and powerful positions in the land.

The Nobilities was also all given a large piece of land where they was allowed to build personal palaces and temples and erect personal monuments in their own honor with the help of free ‘human’ labor. They were also given lots of black headed ‘human’ servants. In various Sumerian texts we can also read that the nobles dressed in royal garments, kept royal insignias and staffs and even wore royal diadems , crowns and wigs.

By now you probably already figured out why lots of the biblical Gods was titled Lords and princes as well.
Having understood all of the above, we will now know that all the kings that are listed on the Sumerian king list(s) only are human beings (the black headed people) and various demigods. We should (in other words) not find the names of any real Anuna Gods in the list(s) , like Anu,Enlil and Enki and so forth as they got their own separate kingships. We might find sons or daughters of them there though, but they would in that case only be demigods and not be reckoned as true Anuna’s.

The names

Another issue of importance, dealing with the Sumerian king list(s) and other Sumerian texts are names.
Nothing is more confusing than ancient names and their naming customs. The rule seems to be , that the more important a person was, the more names they had. Thus most persons had lots of aliases , epithets and names that they got after having done some great deeds. When we deal with Sumerian names, it is also important to note that lots of the names are titles rather than names. Enlil and Enki and lots of other names are for instance such titles. To add to this confusion , we also have to deal with different names on the same persons in multiple languages. Thus we for instance find that the name of biblical Noah is Siudsudra in Sumerian, Atrahasis in Akkadian, Xisuthros in greek and Utnapishtim in Babylonian.

Part Two

The great flood

Having said all this. Let’s now take a closer look at the great flood and a different timeline , which in my view seems more credible.

According to the Sumerian king list(s) the great flood took place some 30378 years ago towards the end of the age of Taurus. In my view this is an error, and I will use Gilgamec in an attempt to explain why.

Gilgamec

Several Sumerian texts tells us in details that Gilgamec lived shortly before, during and after the great flood, which he somehow survived. Some texts even tells us that he went to speak with Siudsudra (Noah) after the flood. The Sumerian texts are pretty clear on all this. Also. In a biblical text called “The book of giants” which deals with the punishment of the watchers from the period shortly before the great flood, Gilgamec’s name is mentioned.

Now. Gilgamec was a demigod (2/3 God) and according to the king list(s) , he lived and ruled as king in ancient Sumer some 8864 years ago. He ruled for a period of 126 years. Thus we must conclude that the great flood didn’t occur 30378 years ago as indicated by the king list(s), but rather some 8800 years ago instead.

However. This is perhaps not quite right either, because in another Sumerian text, called “Gilgamec and Aga” we can read how Gilgamec defeated king Aga and afterwards transferred the kingship from Kis to Unug (Eanna) . According to the king list(s), Aga ruled in Kis some 11533 years ago and that he ruled for a period of 625 years, when he was defeated by Gilgamec. We thus can conclude that Gilgamec probably didn’t rule 8864 years ago, but some 11000 years ago instead . Thus we might assume that the great flood took place around 11000 years ago in the age of Leo.

Culgi and Ur-Namma

I have found a lot of errors in the Sumerian king list(s). However, I won’t mention all of them here, but just to indicate how bad some errors in the king list(s) really are we need to mention the rule of Culgi and Ur-Namma. According to the king list(s) (and also mainstream scientists) they ruled some 3860 and 3878 years ago. However. According to several texts in the Sumerian text archive, both Culgi and Ur-Namma was half brothers of Gilgamec (They had the same mother). It is therefore impossible that they could have ruled some 7000 years after the rule of Gilgamec like the list(s) claims , because they were all contemporary.

Part Three

A possible Sumerian timeline

According to a Babylonian text called Atrahasis, the younger (non-royal) Sumerian Gods (The Igigi’s) served as workers (which the elder Sumerian Gods, The Anuna’s ) had imposed on them for 3600 years before the great flood. The Igigi’s then rebelled. According to Sumerian texts, this event eventually resulted in the creation of ‘the black headed people’ (the human pre flood race of Adam and Eve), which was supposed to take over the hard work that up until then had been done by the Igigi’s.

According to the same text, some 600 years (some versions have 1200) went by. The black headed people had by then multiplied and become numerous, which (according to the texts) caused Enlil to complain , as they made too much noise? It will not attempt to explain more of the reasons behind this right now, but as a result of everything that happened in those days, the Anuna Gods decided to destroy the human beings. Thus they caused a great flood to occur.

If we were to believe these text, we thus can put down the following alternative timeline:
From the time when the aliens descended to Earth and the human race of Adam and Eve was created, some 3600 years went by. From the time when Adam and Eve was created until the great flood swept over the Earth, some 600 (or 1200) years went by. Also note that the period of 1200 years match the total rule period of the biblical pre flood rulers as stated above.

From the great flood until today some 11000 years have gone. (see Gilgamec)

That is a total of about 15000 years.


End.

Helium what is the source of your four part story?

Some criticism, nice tale but it is self defeating as you using the scientific equivalent of 2+2=5, there is no evidence for said flood so this derails your story, nor any archaeological evidence to support this literary construction.

a reply to: Hanslune

Hanlune.

Thanks for feedback.

My sources for this particular article are basically Sumerian texts as found in the public Sumerian text archive (The ETCSL) , as well as various similar Babylonian versions.

Sorry you are stuck with the mainstream versions though. I also used to be there once. Happy you liked the tale though.

a reply to: Hanslune

Smells like you are making General Tso Chicken again,no?

No evidence of said Flood?

Ha ha ha ha.

All there IS is evidence of cyclical Global Floods.

a reply to: Harte

"A world wide tsunami would leave geological evidence" .... They are starting to find evidence of large tsunami's all the time.

"A large asteroid or comet, the kind that could kill a quarter of the world’s population, smashed into the Indian Ocean 4,800 years ago, producing a tsunami at least 600 feet high, about 13 times as big as the one that inundated Indonesia nearly two years ago. The wave carried the huge deposits of sediment to land.".....

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: one4all
a reply to: Hanslune

Smells like you are making General Tso Chicken again,no?

No evidence of said Flood?

Ha ha ha ha.

All there IS is evidence of cyclical Global Floods.

Nope no Earth covering biblical flood that covered the earth for an entire year......you know Noah's flood

originally posted by: helius
a reply to: Hanslune

Hanlune.

Thanks for feedback.

My sources for this particular article are basically Sumerian texts as found in the public Sumerian text archive (The ETCSL) , as well as various similar Babylonian versions.

Sorry you are stuck with the mainstream versions though. I also used to be there once. Happy you liked the tale though.

I'm fairly sure that there is no such story lines in the literature of the ETCSL. Are you sure about that citation?

Perhaps I should ask you say three specific questions from your material and could you provide the specific link to a quote in a ETCSL? document? Like....do you actually believe that the 'Gods' dug the E & T rivers in that time frame?

Geology seems to say something rather different.....

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Harte

"A world wide tsunami would leave geological evidence" .... They are starting to find evidence of large tsunami's all the time.

"A large asteroid or comet, the kind that could kill a quarter of the world’s population, smashed into the Indian Ocean 4,800 years ago, producing a tsunami at least 600 feet high, about 13 times as big as the one that inundated Indonesia nearly two years ago. The wave carried the huge deposits of sediment to land.".....

www.nytimes.com...

I believe I stated that evidence of ancient mega tsunamis has been found. So, please show me the "huge deposits of sediment" that this Indian Ocean tsunami left on, say, North Carolina.

Harte