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Why Does the Right Embrace Ignorance as a Virtue?

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posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

It brought to mind the discussion we had a while back. No worries, no harm, no foul.

Humility and learning that I don't know everything is still an on-going process for me.




posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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Why do people of your ilk---whether they be on the "left" or "right"---attempt to keep the status quo of division along imaginary lines? What sort of unification is brought about by divisiveness such as this thread? What solutions to our current problems are found in posts such as this? Makes you feel better about yourself and your vast store of "knowledge"? You and your ilk are the able slaves of your Masters.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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It's amazing how many right wingers voted for Obama.




posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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Your post reminds me a movie preview and the article most movies; here's how:
Movie previews often pluck out the only rays of hope for a movie and make it seem like there's something good coming. But then you watch the movie and it sucks really bad. That's what I just felt like when I read your post and then clicked the link.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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originally posted by: borntowatch
So I am Christian (or.....insert whatever you disagree with.....) and ignorantly brainwashed and you are secular (or....insert whatever you agree with...) and educated and know everything you believe is true.

That is scary and so arrogant

I guess I have no value and should be shipped of somewhere unpleasant


or just maybe I dont understand your position.


That is not at all what is being said. Reading the referenced articles would be helpful.

It's not a matter of brainwashing and indoctrination though, I do, know that one can be indoctrinated into any worldview given the proper circumstances (Loyola "give me a child until he's seven and he'll be a catholic for life.)

The point is that belief is one set of arguments, an valid as far as it goes. I believe people are born good despite abundant evidence to the contrary. But I see and know the distinction. The evidence I see, the evidence I read (from others much more knowledgeable then I) is used in my decision making. My belief is only one aspect of a decision. And my viewpoint(s) are open to change over time due to changing evidence, changing personal expierence and personal belief.

Taking a 'stance' on an issue purely because of belief is IGNORANT. To make a valid opinion, one that others will listen to and, at times respect, requires many different kinds of logic and understanding.

If I were to act on my belief 'that people are basically good' in spite of evidence to the contrarcy - someone coming after me with a knife, I would be the wrost sort of ignorant (or a Saint - point of view there). Running away would be my decision, it would add to my personal experience evidence and over time might change my core belief but I don't think so.

It's the magical thinking without reference to any contrary evidence or experience. It's blind obedience to a single authority (political, religious, science, philosophy, etc) without any other coraborating evidence that is the ignorance spoken of in this article.

Yes, science has one worldview; Yes, religions have their worldviews, Yes, politics have their worldviews, etc, etc. No one is always right or always wrong and hence the challenge to each and everyone of us willing to make the effort to determine each moment's decisions on the best available knowledge and experience from an open minded place. To do otherwise is to stagnate and die.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

1. Where do we nominate thread titles for

BAITING THREAD TITLE OF THE YEAR?

2. The quotes in the OP sound like those addicted to the REGRESSIVE/liberal/globalist/communist/ etc. perspective, actually.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
There is RIGHT, and there is WRONG.



Deal with it.



I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point and find it eloquently stated. If it isn't right of center, it's probably wrong.

See what I did there? It's called twisting someone's words around. I'd suggest everybody that jumps all over politically vested smear articles like the one linked in the OP study it closely, because it is exactly what the media does to portray whatever targeted speaker they're after as an ass.

Here's another great example. If I said "What we have to ask is: 'Are children learning?" it makes perfect sense to anyone with even a hair's worth of English comprehension. If I'm a journalist, however, and I wish to present the speaker as a jackass, I can easily compose the sentence as "What we have to ask is our children learning?" and VOILA! Instant dumbass in a can. The bottom line is, regardless of your political delusions, both parties are filled with self agrandizing, ignorant jckasses... it just takes the media to present some of them in a more protected light while emphasizing the mistakes of the others to turn the tables in the mind of the average, spoonfed American.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

I reached the actual thought behind the opinion piece... unsuprisingly climate change, and started drooling, babbling, and smacking myself in the forehead for actually bothering to read the article.

The arrogance of the climate change cultists, to instantly attack anyone who DARES question the theory, has become a daily thing. One of these days, they'll slip up and attack the wrong person and the majority will finally snap out of their daze and cast these usurpers off their ivory pedestal. Until that time, if a bunch of paid mouthpieces want to consider me "ignorant", I don't suppose that's much of a big whoop. *shrug*



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt


This brings to mind another thread on Where do you fall on the political compass.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd know of this particular typology since college but was surprised to find that the test placed me much more libertarian on the Authoritarian/Libertarian axis then I would have expected. Other were surprised as well.

I recall my dear ex-husband, a true red card-carrying republican - who held many progressive ideas that were way beyond what I would support. He wanted people to think of him as conservative but he wasn't really.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This thread should have been made in the political mud-pit. It's clearly political trolling since anyone with a passing knowledge of politics knows that it isn't just the right that embraces ignorance as a virtue. There are plenty from the left who spew their own brand of ignorance.


To address the political trolling aspect of this thread. The political tactic of willful ignorance and talking over others is largely a rightist tactic. That's were the 'politics' come into play. The Right and it's various subdivisions use this non-stop repeating the same thing and talking over people.

That is political fact, not fiction.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This thread should have been made in the political mud-pit. It's clearly political trolling since anyone with a passing knowledge of politics knows that it isn't just the right that embraces ignorance as a virtue. There are plenty from the left who spew their own brand of ignorance.


To address the political trolling aspect of this thread. The political tactic of willful ignorance and talking over others is largely a rightist tactic. That's were the 'politics' come into play. The Right and it's various subdivisions use this non-stop repeating the same thing and talking over people.

That is political fact, not fiction.




If you actually believe that that is a predominately right wing tactic then I venture to say you are beyond reach in both your bias and your own ignorance........exactly what you lay at the feet of the right....

The Irony is amusing



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
. . . . The political tactic of willful ignorance and talking over others is largely a rightist tactic. . . .


How can you "talk-over" someone on the internet?

Simply state what you perceive.

Just because someone doesn't agree, doesn't make them "stupid".

(I'd write more, but I just saw something shiny)



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: TrueBrit

Well said. It's not about left and right, it's about people who think they know better than the experts, or people who espouse the fashionable kind of intellectual relativism that states that "there's no such thing as facts, only opinions", and that everybody's viewpoint is equally valid. Well, sorry, but some people are flat-out wrong, and they need to be told that they're wrong. Facts are stubborn things.


Very nicely said and why I wanted to post this article. I didn't have time to find the research, but I'm home and found an article on the subject of self-knowledge and competence that I read and was very effected by.

Here is a link to an old summary of the research:

www.sfgate.com...

Dated January 18, 2000. The article does refer to the publication of the research in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. I don't have access to the actual paper, not in school any longer but a library trip would get you a copy if interested.

From the article:

The introduction:



There are many incompetent people in the world. Dr. David A. Dunning is haunted by the fear that he might be one of them.

Dunning, a professor of psychology at Cornell, worries about this because, according to his research, most incompetent people do not know that they are incompetent


This has bearing on willful ignorance.



One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence.





This deficiency in "self-monitoring skills," the researchers said, helps explain the tendency of the humor-impaired to persist in telling jokes that are not funny, of day traders to repeatedly jump into the market -- and repeatedly lose out -- and of the politically clueless to continue holding forth at dinner parties on the fine points of campaign strategy.



A quote from Thomas Jefferson:



The findings, the psychologists said, support Thomas Jefferson's assertion that "he who knows best knows how little he knows."


And mentions other research:



And the research meshes neatly with other work indicating that overconfidence is common; studies have found, for example, that the vast majority of people rate themselves as "above average" on a wide array of abilities -- though such an abundance of talent would be impossible in statistical terms. This overestimation, studies indicate, is more likely for tasks that are difficult than for those that are easy.


And, as all good writing and argument do, acknowlegde dissenting points of view:



Such studies are not without critics. Dr. David C. Funder, a psychology professor at the University of California at Riverside, for example, said he suspects that most lay people have only a vague idea of the meaning of "average" in statistical terms.

"I'm not sure the average person thinks of 'average' or 'percentile' in quite that literal a sense," Funder said, "so 'above average' might mean to them 'pretty good,' or 'OK,' or 'doing all right.' And if, in fact, people mean something subjective when they use the word, then it's really hard to evaluate whether they're right or wrong, using the statistical criterion."



What I have taken from this is that when I think I KNOW something is true and always will be, I'm a blooming idiot. When I don't listen (meaning really hear what someone is saying and check it with them) to anothers viewpoint or evidence and experience, I'm a blooming idiot. When I believe what any one else states as fact whithout checking it out and gathering my own evidence, I'm a blooming idiot.

The Right - not completely (I adored William Buckley - thought many of his premises were in error but boy could that man make a tight logical argument) - just screams louder then the left.

Sorry about mis-spellings.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
The political tactic of willful ignorance and talking over others is largely a rightist tactic. That's were the 'politics' come into play. The Right and it's various subdivisions use this non-stop repeating the same thing and talking over people.


You could just as easily say the practice of willful denial and talking FOR others is a leftist tactic, though. Virtually every left leaning politican denies any culpability for their decisions, always blaming any faults on their predecessors or any other convenient target. Furthermore, they repeat the same thing over, and over, and over (like playing the race card, harping on singular issues such as climate change, consistantly working to increase any divide in the American people they can exploit) and they never fail to act as mouthpieces for any group that suits their needs.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's not about "daring to question the theory". Theories only become theories by people testing and questioning them (before that they are merely hypotheses).

The dumb part comes in ignoring the evidence. The really dumb part is, as you so helpfully demonstrated, accusing anybody who actually thinks for themselves, rather than toeing the party line, of being "paid mouthpieces".

To paraphrase John Vernon: wrong, biased and offensive is no way to win an argument, son.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: FyreByrd

As an ignorant dingus (as some in this thread have portrayed me), I must protest.

I see this often from many.

"If you don't agree with me, then you must be stupid."

There is a massive lack of tolerance, humility, and appreciation for a difference of opinion.

But if it feels better to call people with whom you disagree "ignorant", "stupid", "dingus", etc. . . . then I will (for one) fight for your continued freedom to throw any and every slur at me.



Don't you think it should be called 'out of order' in some fashion. Public (and private in many cases) has devolved in the last 40 years into a shouting match where no one is listening or making sense. Who ever yells the louded wins? That is preschool nonsense. The old neener, neener, neener, you can't make me listen thing just doesn't help anything.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: FyreByrd

As an ignorant dingus (as some in this thread have portrayed me), I must protest.

I see this often from many.

"If you don't agree with me, then you must be stupid."

There is a massive lack of tolerance, humility, and appreciation for a difference of opinion.

But if it feels better to call people with whom you disagree "ignorant", "stupid", "dingus", etc. . . . then I will (for one) fight for your continued freedom to throw any and every slur at me.



Don't you think it should be called 'out of order' in some fashion. Public (and private in many cases) has devolved in the last 40 years into a shouting match where no one is listening or making sense. Who ever yells the louded wins? That is preschool nonsense. The old neener, neener, neener, you can't make me listen thing just doesn't help anything.


So if I don't agree with you, I'm being childish?

(I'm rubber, you're glue. . . by the way . . . )



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: ProfessorPlum
"So I left him, thinking to myself as I left that although neither of us really knew anything about what is noble and good, still I was better off. For he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows, while I neither know nor think that I know. And in this I think I have a slight advantage."

-Socrates


Bears repeating. And I will raise you from"http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/ignorance:


“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
― Aldous Huxley, Complete Essays 2, 1926-29



“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Collected Works



“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Isaac Asimov



“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.




“Beware the man of a single book.”
― Thomas Aquinas



“To know that you do not know is the best.
To think you know when you do not is a disease.
Recognizing this disease as a disease is to be free of it.”
― Lao Tzu



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: FyreByrd

1. Where do we nominate thread titles for

BAITING THREAD TITLE OF THE YEAR?

2. The quotes in the OP sound like those addicted to the REGRESSIVE/liberal/globalist/communist/ etc. perspective, actually.


The title is that of the article referenced.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: beezzer


But believe what ever you wish. Cast slurs to whomever you wish.

Wow.
Okay, I know you're really special here and all, but there is - there IS - something to be said for SOME of the progressive agenda. If you choose to close your eyes to it out of belligerence, well, then.....

we'll never, ever find a way to meet in the middle.
Like you haven't "cast slurs" against people?




Please.







 
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