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The liberal machine runs on emotion. But what is the solution?

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posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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It may help to better understand the terms as applied to this nation.

A liberal is the USA is the right winder in Russia!

The name adopted by the left in this country has changed over many years.

In the late 1800's they use the name Progressives.

The connotation came to be a negative one so they went to liberal.

The conservatives have been loosing ground trying to hold ground.

To take back our constitutional way of life we will need to be more like the left and go on the attack!

To preserve, protect, and defend has not been working so well.

Remember that for every action there will be an equal but opposite reaction...

True power comes from the muzzle of a gun and that is why we must have a gun equal to the opposition.

The liberal mind is unaware of the consequences of pushing too fast and too far the people that think with their head.

Pay back can be a bitch!




posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders
a reply to: Bluesma

Thanks for the thoughtful response. But I should say that the thread was not intended to find common ground. It was intended to inspire people to make suggestions as to how best to defend yourself against this form of propaganda. In an online "debate" for example. When people succeed in drowning you out with this kind of a tactic, the only thing you can do is try to find a counter for it. When people purposely use dirty tricks against you, they usually win unless you can find a way to lessen the effectiveness of their propaganda. And by "win" I mean that they succeed in convincing people they are right. When this happens often enough and propagates widely, it is extremely effective.


OKay.

I do not personally find this to be true.
I have repeatedly found that keeping your moderate and realistic view point despite all attempts to be swayed into one extreme or another can still have a profound effect upon others.

But then
I don't worry about "winning" in an immediate superficial sort of sense. What I value most is the seeds you plant and that in the moment they may argue against, but in three months, you see the same poster, telling someone else exactly what YOU said before, as if they came up with it all on their own.

That means, they kinda did- You planted food for thought. They spent time thinking, and came to conclusions not based on emotional defenses, but on a firm rational will, and their own life experiences being applied.

Give me that over a emotional agreement or submission anytime! The importance is not that I get credit and glory, but that people think, observe, weigh .
If, after all that, the idea survives through them, it indicates that it is beneficial or useful somehow. If it dies in that process, then that that is best- it should not be spread further- even with emotional manipulation. Time becomes a valuable screening process...
edit on 18-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders
a reply to: Bluesma

Thanks for the thoughtful response. But I should say that the thread was not intended to find common ground. It was intended to inspire people to make suggestions as to how best to defend yourself against this form of propaganda. In an online "debate" for example. When people succeed in drowning you out with this kind of a tactic, the only thing you can do is try to find a counter for it. When people purposely use dirty tricks against you, they usually win unless you can find a way to lessen the effectiveness of their propaganda. And by "win" I mean that they succeed in convincing people they are right. When this happens often enough and propagates widely, it is extremely effective.


I feel the best way to defend against "propaganda" is first evaluate the person as well as the message and its intended or unintended affects.

Now you must make a choice to answer or not.

People are all different and should be treated as individuals.

If they are nasty and abusive or thoughtful and respectful they should be allowed to express themselves in kind.

Nasty begets nasty and nice begets nice in my book.



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

The liberal machine runs on the same thing as the conservative machine: MONEY.
The GOP and DNC and the MSM are all tools used by the lobbying industry to control the masses outlook and understanding of things.

To think that party leaders [lawyers/politicians] and organizations[DNC,GOP] care more about principles than money is very naive.



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: BrianFlanders

The liberal machine runs on the same thing as the conservative machine: MONEY.
The GOP and DNC and the MSM are all tools used by the lobbying industry to control the masses outlook and understanding of things.

To think that party leaders [lawyers/politicians] and organizations[DNC,GOP] care more about principles than money is very naive.




Also power and control...Thanks!



posted on Jun, 18 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders

Use emotion to beat emotion.

Pretend to be them to beat them. That is how you win.

The masses will have trouble telling the difference between competing ideology if it looks very similar to their own.
edit on 18-6-2014 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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the fuel that the liberal engine runs on is emotion


That's bogus, but tell me one republican position that is based on anything other than fanatical emotion?



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: CB328



the fuel that the liberal engine runs on is emotion


That's bogus, but tell me one republican position that is based on anything other than fanatical emotion?


Another poster who hasn't read my posts. Thanks but I don't have the rest of my life to keep clarifying my purpose for creating this thread to people who didn't read my posts.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 05:25 AM
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You did make the mistake of forgetting to include Conservatives also as people whp use emotional manipulation in political arguments. ... is there a possibility to edit your op so you don't have to keep correcting that?

There's a lot of pages to read. The mistake is one which provokes emotion reaction.
(Not always a desirable tactic to use...)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
You did make the mistake of forgetting to include Conservatives also as people whp use emotional manipulation in political arguments. ... is there a possibility to edit your op so you don't have to keep correcting that?

There's a lot of pages to read. The mistake is one which provokes emotion reaction.
(Not always a desirable tactic to use...)


No. You cannot change a post once the time limit for changing it has expired. I just assumed (naively) that if people wanted to contribute to a long thread, they would at least try to read it first. At the very least they could skim. Most of the questions they keep asking are answered on the first page. So if they are only reading the first post in a 10 page thread and immediately jumping to conclusions, really, that's not my fault.

Secondly, this thread was not intended to be about conservatives. It was about liberals. Because American culture has gotten to the point to where it's dominated by liberal ideology. Conservative attempts at the same kind of propaganda fall flat with the majority of people because these people are not conservatives. They (rightly) see it for what it is. Conservative propaganda is irrelevant right now because it doesn't work on anyone who isn't a conservative and conservatism is in the minority culturally (Hence the fact that we have a Democrat president who is in the middle of his second term). If Obama had not been caught red handed in so many blatant lies and he wasn't so obnoxious and narcissistic, he would be far more popular than he is. Remember how popular he was initially? That was because he initially succeeded at making liberals believe in him and it was obvious at that time that liberalism is the majority political ideology in this country. He's lost a lot of support because those people have seen too much to believe in him they way they used to. But they'd still vote for him again if he could run for another term. You can bet on that.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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www.youtube.com...

OK, so it is about liberals.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders


Then you are not reading what people are answering to you. They are disagreeing with your premise on which your question is based.


I do not think liberals use any more emotion-provoking tactics than do conservatives (and I disagree with your view on America as being a liberal, or left wing dominated society- but then I am outside the US most of the time and for most other countries, our left wing is still right wing).

My answer to the question you asked was- respond exactly the same way you would to a conservative using those same tactics. With emotional balance.


If you ask "Dogs are donuts. My question is - how do you eat a dog?"

And people answer, "Dogs are NOT donuts!" It doesn't mean they didn't answer your question because they can't read.

edit on 19-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: BrianFlanders


Then you are not reading what people are answering to you. They are disagreeing with your premise on which your question is based.


I do not think liberals use any more emotion-provoking tactics than do conservatives (and I disagree with your view on America as being a liberal, or left wing dominated society- but then I am outside the US most of the time and for most other countries, our left wing is still right wing).

My answer to the question you asked was- respond exactly the same way you would to a conservative using those same tactics. With emotional balance.


If you ask "Dogs are donuts. My question is - how do you eat a dog?"

And people answer, "Dogs are NOT donuts!" It doesn't mean they didn't answer your question because they can't read.


Liberals are weak minded fools that have no clue as to how the real world works!

EX: www.liveleak.com...

They believe that this would never happen to their country...



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: waltwillis

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: BrianFlanders


Then you are not reading what people are answering to you. They are disagreeing with your premise on which your question is based.


I do not think liberals use any more emotion-provoking tactics than do conservatives (and I disagree with your view on America as being a liberal, or left wing dominated society- but then I am outside the US most of the time and for most other countries, our left wing is still right wing).

My answer to the question you asked was- respond exactly the same way you would to a conservative using those same tactics. With emotional balance.


If you ask "Dogs are donuts. My question is - how do you eat a dog?"

And people answer, "Dogs are NOT donuts!" It doesn't mean they didn't answer your question because they can't read.


Liberals are weak minded fools that have no clue as to how the real world works!

EX: www.liveleak.com...

They believe that this would never happen to their country...


Yeah, but you could say the exact same thing about conservatives. Someone that drinks beer everynight and can't wait to tune in to Duck Dynasty? Those people have a clue as to how the real world works? Yeah...not really.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: waltwillis

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: BrianFlanders


Then you are not reading what people are answering to you. They are disagreeing with your premise on which your question is based.


I do not think liberals use any more emotion-provoking tactics than do conservatives (and I disagree with your view on America as being a liberal, or left wing dominated society- but then I am outside the US most of the time and for most other countries, our left wing is still right wing).

My answer to the question you asked was- respond exactly the same way you would to a conservative using those same tactics. With emotional balance.


If you ask "Dogs are donuts. My question is - how do you eat a dog?"

And people answer, "Dogs are NOT donuts!" It doesn't mean they didn't answer your question because they can't read.


Liberals are weak minded fools that have no clue as to how the real world works!

EX: www.liveleak.com...

They believe that this would never happen to their country...


Yeah, but you could say the exact same thing about conservatives. Someone that drinks beer everynight and can't wait to tune in to Duck Dynasty? Those people have a clue as to how the real world works? Yeah...not really.


YES!
I agree that many are much the same, but if you compare the percentages demographically you may be able to discern a major difference between the two groups.

Analysis was not your strong subject in school?

There is still time to listen and learn if you apply your thinking to the facts.

I wish you well and hope you are able to keep an open mind about what is being presented here on the forum.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: BrianFlanders


Then you are not reading what people are answering to you. They are disagreeing with your premise on which your question is based.


I do not think liberals use any more emotion-provoking tactics than do conservatives (and I disagree with your view on America as being a liberal, or left wing dominated society-


Well, I think you're wrong. I've seen all I need to see. I believe Obama is president because American culture is liberal. Obama may or may not be liberal but he knows what people want to hear. That's why he's president. That's why the left had a majority when they passed Obamacare. They knew exactly what the majority of Americans wanted to hear. And the propaganda they used was not conservative. Go back and watch Obama's keynote from 2004. I remember it well. He knew exactly what to say. Go back and observe his behavior when he was running for president. He knew what people wanted to hear then too. That's why he won. He didn't win by pretending to be a conservative. He won by appealing to the left. Obama certainly didn't win anything by appealing to conservatives. He won two terms with the same garbage.

And by the way. If you don't believe American culture is dominated by liberalism, do me a favor. Name every Hollywood movie you can think of that has an obvious conservative bias. Name the most powerful conservative celebrities you know of. Which American media outlets (other than Fox News and it's affiliates) are blatantly conservative?

Now. Let me ask you something. Imagine a bunch of college kids sitting around watching Fox News because they believe it's the best news on TV. Doesn't that sound like a joke to you?

Name every blatantly conservative university you know of.

And one more thing. Frankly, to just spell it out in plain English, this thread wasn't addressed to liberals anyway.

Let's go back to the very first line of the very first post....


If you are anything other than a liberal (whatever other political ideology moves you)


Which part of that is confusing? Who was I speaking to in that sentence?
edit on 19-6-2014 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:44 AM
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a reply to: BrianFlanders


Getting aggressive out of a desire to defend others from victimization, ("liberal")
or

getting aggressive out of a desire to defend oneself from victimization ("conservative")

Both amount to being fueled by self rightious indignation. (-*emotion*)

If you were (what you call) liberal, your question would be-

The Conservative machine runs on emotion, what is the solution?...in any debate they seek to stir up a sense that you are under threat of having your rights taken by others, of being enslaved, abused. They provoke our most instinctual reactions of self defense and survival, and use that. How to respond to such tactics?

The really hard part? How to explain to a person who has just been manipulated into believing they are under immediate threat of being enslaved and abused, gnashing their teeth and clenching their fists, that they have been the victim of an emotional exploit? While their adrenaline is pumping and their brains are turned off??


The answer to the question, both from the conservative and the liberal, is the same. The solution is the same. Recognize not only your opposition for what it is, but your own as well. Open both eyes, not one.
edit on 20-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 03:53 AM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders

And one more thing. Frankly, to just spell it out in plain English, this thread wasn't addressed to liberals anyway.

Let's go back to the very first line of the very first post....


If you are anything other than a liberal (whatever other political ideology moves you)


Which part of that is confusing? Who was I speaking to in that sentence?


Obviously, you did not get what I pointed out.
I have noticed in that in European countries, the equivalent terms, (applied to political parties of many countries, with different names) is "left" and "right".

Both American Democrats and Republicans are on the "right" wing half of the spectrum globally.


You see, out here, outside of the US, I could not be considered a liberal. In Europe, and in the particular european country I live in, with the people I work and live with, I am perceived as a hard ass conservative individualist and capitalist.

Though, when back in the US, I am perceived by the americans as "liberal", in contrast.

Relativity is a reality.

Gray looks darker when you place it up against white,
and lighter when you place it up against black.
edit on 20-6-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 01:11 PM
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I still feel like the term 'liberal' has yet to be defined by the OP, neither has the term conservative.

There are always agendas in place. We are constantly bombarded by advertising campaigns, some are quite subliminal.

The USA is becoming more polarized. The two 'poles' identify as liberal or conservative. Both sides tend to reject each others ideas and will typically oppose any ideas, suggestions, and even facts the other side presents. Climate change is a great example, conservatives reject research and facts about human induced climate change because in their eyes it is part of the 'liberal agenda'.

There is another forum I've been frequenting for years. It is a small forum with an even smaller political sub forum, it is a surfing related forum so most members could be labeled as 'liberal'. The are two resident far right self proclaimed conservatives who are all over that sub-forum, almost every other thread is an Obama bashing thread and there is always some rant rejecting climate change among other rhetoric that typically upsets the liberal side. These two have alienated the rest of the forum because of their extreme 'right' threads and posts. Recently with the IRS, Lerner, and lost email scandal the two conservatives are all over it, because there is so much negative association for these two most of the forum is not upset at the IRS and even making excuses that loosing emails happens and refuse to even consider the IRS at fault because they refuse to be on the same side of the fence as those two far right clowns.

edit on 20-6-2014 by jrod because: 1



posted on Jun, 20 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: jrod
I still feel like the term 'liberal' has yet to be defined by the OP, neither has the term conservative.

There are always agendas in place. We are constantly bombarded by advertising campaigns, some are quite subliminal.


The US constitution is NOT an agenda, it is the law of the land.

The USA is becoming more polarized. The two 'poles' identify as liberal or conservative. Both sides tend to reject each others ideas and will typically oppose any ideas, suggestions, and even facts the other side presents. Climate change is a great example, conservatives reject research and facts about human induced climate change because in their eyes it is part of the 'liberal agenda'.


The left rejects the idea of the US constitution and would love to change the document into something like the rest of the world has. Why call it climate change and not global warming or how about what the chicken little's called in the late 70's...A coming global ice age? Or did you not know about that?

By the way, I did work with Dr. Gray and he said the left was wrong about so called global warming and correct about climate change because the climate will change and it was good of the left to figure that much out. The problem is they think it is human activity that is the prime cause. Just 6% of all carbon emissions are from humans and most of it comes from other nations per capita.

There is another forum I've been frequenting for years. It is a small forum with an even smaller political sub forum, it is a surfing related forum so most members could be labeled as 'liberal'. The are two resident far right self proclaimed conservatives who are all over that sub-forum, almost every other thread is an Obama bashing thread and there is always some rant rejecting climate change among other rhetoric that typically upsets the liberal side. These two have alienated the rest of the forum because of their extreme 'right' threads and posts. Recently with the IRS, Lerner, and lost email scandal the two conservatives are all over it, because there is so much negative association for these two most of the forum is not upset at the IRS and even making excuses that loosing emails happens and refuse to even consider the IRS at fault because they refuse to be on the same side of the fence as those two far right clowns.


Clowns to the left of me are more then enough on this forum!




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