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Defying Russian warnings, Moldova and Georgia head for EU pact

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posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Britguy The 40s? LOL. Try the cold war. The armored divisions, gone. Zero tanks in Europe at all. Troops? 60K, that's it.

Toss in the Obama betrayal of the Ukraine by cancelling the ABM agreement in which the Ukraine gave up it's nukes in exchange for and this all equate to U.S./NATO expansionism? Hogwash.

Russian troops still in Georgia? Yep! Crimea? Eastern Ukraine? If NATO is so tough Putin wouldn't have made these moves, obviously. Hello?

Between Norway's oil boom and, hopefully, the removal of natural gas export restrictions from the U.S. AND a completely neutered U.S. Administration, NATO and the EU is without any will whatsoever, other than economic sanctions, Putin has around a three year window before life gets tougher. I.E., lesser/no gas and oil leverage and a much tougher U.S. administration.

As this thread implies, ex-satellite nations of the Soviet Union don't want any part of Russia-other than financial/jobs in Eastern Ukraine-and to such a degree that they are willing to risk Russian backlash at these moves.

There's been plenty of opportunity for NATO/U.S. to take advantage of since the collapse of the Soviet Union, militarily, economically and politically. They haven't done so.

Having said that, I don't consider the EU, NATO or the U.S. without their own "sins" in this, but this knee jerk "it's all the U.S./NATO doing" is garbage.

Just my opinion though.




posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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Nothing occurs in Russia without putin knowing about it. Especially when it deals with foreign relations. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Unlike Obama who has to find out things from the MSM . I would think that Russia does help with their economies .If they want to move away from that then they have the right to .They can just add on the extra costs to the consumers in the EU .They will also have to compete .. I guess free markets are a good thing .I mean if Canada decided to move it's trade away from the US and concentrate on other markets that would be our souvenir right to do so .Not sure about trade agreements and all other complicated things that goes with it but if it turns out for the worse then the people can always turn back and hope to negotiate again . a reply to: Xcathdra



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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Do you have a link to where Putin threatened them . All I got out of it was that he was warning them


So if Putin does not get his way he throws a tempter tantrum and threatens actions against these 2 nations. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...
a reply to: Xcathdra



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Britguy The 40s? LOL. Try the cold war. The armored divisions, gone. Zero tanks in Europe at all. Troops? 60K, that's it.

Toss in the Obama betrayal of the Ukraine by cancelling the ABM agreement in which the Ukraine gave up it's nukes in exchange for and this all equate to U.S./NATO expansionism? Hogwash.

Russian troops still in Georgia? Yep! Crimea? Eastern Ukraine? If NATO is so tough Putin wouldn't have made these moves, obviously. Hello?

Between Norway's oil boom and, hopefully, the removal of natural gas export restrictions from the U.S. AND a completely neutered U.S. Administration, NATO and the EU is without any will whatsoever, other than economic sanctions, Putin has around a three year window before life gets tougher. I.E., lesser/no gas and oil leverage and a much tougher U.S. administration.

As this thread implies, ex-satellite nations of the Soviet Union don't want any part of Russia-other than financial/jobs in Eastern Ukraine-and to such a degree that they are willing to risk Russian backlash at these moves.

There's been plenty of opportunity for NATO/U.S. to take advantage of since the collapse of the Soviet Union, militarily, economically and politically. They haven't done so.

Having said that, I don't consider the EU, NATO or the U.S. without their own "sins" in this, but this knee jerk "it's all the U.S./NATO doing" is garbage.

Just my opinion though.




Just a note. People seemed confused about the ABM. The ABM covers the use of or threatened us of a nuclear weapon on Ukraine. Is such a thing were to happen the US would be required to call a meeting of the Security Council to discuss the issue. That is the total requirement of the United States obligations under that treaty. So the treaty on the US side still stands unbroken. One could argue the Russians broke their part in it by viloating Ukraines borders but, again unless they did it with a nuke or threat of a nuke the US, China, UK and France who all signed versions of the samething have no treaty ability to do anything.



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad Ok. My understanding of it was that the U.S. had promised to place that system in the Ukraine, itself. That's the part that the U.S. reneged on. Again that's my understanding of it.



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: MrSpad Ok. My understanding of it was that the U.S. had promised to place that system in the Ukraine, itself. That's the part that the U.S. reneged on. Again that's my understanding of it.



Sorry the ABM was a treaty between the US and USSR which ended in 2002. What we are talking about is the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances this is where Ukraine is covered. It is where the parties agree to respect Ukraines sovereignty and its borders, not to threaten Ukraine and to call the US security council to order if Ukraine is nuked or threatened with a nuke. It aslo requires all parties to consult with each other if any of the terms are broken. So yes you could say Russia has violated its part of the treaty. The US/UK have consulted with Russians and Ukraine about this thus meeting our terms of the treaty. When the treaty was being worked on under Bush Sr, and then Clinton none of them would commit to a militarty treaty and made this very clear to Ukraine at the time. Of course at the time Ukraine and Russia were very close so Ukraine saw no threat or need for any military guarantees.



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad Ok, thanks for the clarification. You didn't mention the ABM system itself though.

Could you clarify that for me. My understanding that the Ukraine gave up it's nukes, at least in part, based on the placement of that system within the Ukraine. Is this incorrect?


edit on 11-6-2014 by nwtrucker because: missed word



posted on Jun, 11 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: MrSpad Ok, thanks for the clarification. You didn't mention the ABM system itself though.

Could you clarify that for me. My understanding that the Ukraine gave up it's nukes, at least in part, based on the placement of that system within the Ukraine. Is this incorrect?



No, the treaty was from 1972 and Ukraine was part of the USSR at the time. In 1997 Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan were added to the treaty but, this was a treaty that placed huge limits on ABM systems. In 2002 Bush withdrew the US from the treaty.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Do you have a link to where Putin threatened them . All I got out of it was that he was warning them


Then you should reread the op article since it contains the answer for your question.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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The leaders of Georgia and Moldova are receiving big pay-offs from the US and promises of lavish lifestyles. That's how they are being lured by the Fascists!


‘The United States is offering new financial assistance to Moldova (mawl-DOH’-vah) and Georgia, two former Soviet nations the West seeks to lure toward Europe.

Vice President Joe Biden announced the aid in Kiev during meetings with both nations’ presidents on the sidelines of the new Ukrainian president’s inauguration.

Both Moldova and Georgia are pursuing association agreements with the European Union amid a regional crisis over Russia’s actions in Ukraine.’


US offering new aid to Georgia and Moldova

Happens all the time. The Fascist regime of the US Government has had a lot of practice bribing other countries, illegally invading them or changing their leaders in engineered coup's like the recent one in the Ukraine.

What is happening is the EU is grabbing as many countries it can with the help of the US to isolate Russia. Then once these countries have been taken over with their money bribes in will come the US Military and NATO and they will be on Russia's doorstep ever closer to attacking them and starting WW3.

It's not Rocket Science to see what is really going on!



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Dorrell
The leaders of Georgia and Moldova are receiving big pay-offs from the US and promises of lavish lifestyles. That's how they are being lured by the Fascists!


‘The United States is offering new financial assistance to Moldova (mawl-DOH’-vah) and Georgia, two former Soviet nations the West seeks to lure toward Europe.

Vice President Joe Biden announced the aid in Kiev during meetings with both nations’ presidents on the sidelines of the new Ukrainian president’s inauguration.

Both Moldova and Georgia are pursuing association agreements with the European Union amid a regional crisis over Russia’s actions in Ukraine.’




US offering new aid to Georgia and Moldova

Happens all the time. The Fascist regime of the US Government has had a lot of practice bribing other countries, illegally invading them or changing their leaders in engineered coup's like the recent one in the Ukraine.

What is happening is the EU is grabbing as many countries it can with the help of the US to isolate Russia. Then once these countries have been taken over with their money bribes in will come the US Military and NATO and they will be on Russia's doorstep ever closer to attacking them and starting WW3.

It's not Rocket Science to see what is really going on!


To start with you need to look up the word facist and what it means because clealy you have no idea what it means. Second the US and EU do not need to bribe Moldova or Georgia as they are trying to do anything to not be re-occupied by Russia. And last the NATO has more than enough power the take out Russia if it wanted adding Georgia and Moldova to equation does nothing. Your right it is not rocket science what is going on but, you seem confused anyway.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Dorrell
The leaders of Georgia and Moldova are receiving big pay-offs from the US and promises of lavish lifestyles. That's how they are being lured by the Fascists!


‘The United States is offering new financial assistance to Moldova (mawl-DOH’-vah) and Georgia, two former Soviet nations the West seeks to lure toward Europe.

Vice President Joe Biden announced the aid in Kiev during meetings with both nations’ presidents on the sidelines of the new Ukrainian president’s inauguration.

Both Moldova and Georgia are pursuing association agreements with the European Union amid a regional crisis over Russia’s actions in Ukraine.’




US offering new aid to Georgia and Moldova

Happens all the time. The Fascist regime of the US Government has had a lot of practice bribing other countries, illegally invading them or changing their leaders in engineered coup's like the recent one in the Ukraine.

What is happening is the EU is grabbing as many countries it can with the help of the US to isolate Russia. Then once these countries have been taken over with their money bribes in will come the US Military and NATO and they will be on Russia's doorstep ever closer to attacking them and starting WW3.

It's not Rocket Science to see what is really going on!


To start with you need to look up the word facist and what it means because clealy you have no idea what it means. Second the US and EU do not need to bribe Moldova or Georgia as they are trying to do anything to not be re-occupied by Russia. And last the NATO has more than enough power the take out Russia if it wanted adding Georgia and Moldova to equation does nothing. Your right it is not rocket science what is going on but, you seem confused anyway.


Your right they add nothing to NATO and only increase the likelihood of NATO having to spend more money to protect new members instead of fortifying the old.Oh and anyone who disagrees with Putin is a fascist ive noticed that is apparently the new Russian definition.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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I read it for the third time and no where in that piece does it say what you added . I am calling you out to quote from the piece seeing you said it ...otherwise you will look like a lair a reply to: Xcathdra


edit on 12-6-2014 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I read it for the third time and no where in that piece does it say what you added . I am calling you out to quote from the piece seeing you said it ...otherwise you will look like a lair a reply to: Xcathdra



Read it again Lavrov made a threat but apparently you choose not to see it. See unless Russia was planning on some sort of retaliation there is no risk in them joining the EU. See he was inferring Russia will not be happy and take some sort of action thats called a threat.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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He didn't threaten them ..he was warning them .He may be privy to all the legal documents and he was considering that aspect of it . In op statement he said Putin threatened them and that does not appear in the piece .Now if he would have said something about a red line them maybe you might be able to infer that it was a threat .But it just may be as serious and Obamas red line . a reply to: dragonridr



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
He didn't threaten them ..he was warning them .He may be privy to all the legal documents and he was considering that aspect of it . In op statement he said Putin threatened them and that does not appear in the piece .Now if he would have said something about a red line them maybe you might be able to infer that it was a threat .But it just may be as serious and Obamas red line . a reply to: dragonridr



Hes not privy to anything other than Russian plans nice try but in the real world thats a threat. You can play all the games you like but it doesnt change the fact.But again you cant believe a thing coming out of Lavrovs mouth anyway so im not sure why the article would even quote him to be honest. But that aside for a moment he has made it quite clear through financial pressures Russia is imposing Putins intentions.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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Issuing a threat and uttering a warning is not the same thing .What I had brought up with op was that he said Putin said .Now I will go along with Putins mouth piece speaking for Putin but op said that Russia threatened them .I brought that up with op because he is the one that put those words in his post .They were not in the article and they convey a different message that a warning would . But op is consistent with his words towards Russia . He is following the same propaganda the western media has been sense the Ukrainian mess started . a reply to: dragonridr



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

You do understand that Russia isn't the only place for Europe to get oil, and it has already been said by Saudi Arabia that they would produce enough to cover any shortfall that has arisen because of Russias little venture into Ukraine.

www.ibtimes.com...

So it seems Europe doesn't have to worry too much if Russia decides to play games with their oil.


You do understand that the issue will centre on natural gas, not oil?

And, no Saudi Arabia does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. The rest of the world, currently, does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. Nor does Europe have the infrastructure to receive enough, to offset the shortfall, via train, pipe, or port.

Oil, well, quite frankly, that is the easy part. Europe has friends with lots of oil...even ready for shipment, gas...well, that is another animal, and it will be years before we have the production and infrastructure to supplement their supply.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

You do understand that Russia isn't the only place for Europe to get oil, and it has already been said by Saudi Arabia that they would produce enough to cover any shortfall that has arisen because of Russias little venture into Ukraine.

www.ibtimes.com...

So it seems Europe doesn't have to worry too much if Russia decides to play games with their oil.


You do understand that the issue will centre on natural gas, not oil?

And, no Saudi Arabia does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. The rest of the world, currently, does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. Nor does Europe have the infrastructure to receive enough, to offset the shortfall, via train, pipe, or port.

Oil, well, quite frankly, that is the easy part. Europe has friends with lots of oil...even ready for shipment, gas...well, that is another animal, and it will be years before we have the production and infrastructure to supplement their supply.


Not as lomg as you think Norway can expand there supply easily. Turkey can simply import more they were already planning on imports from Africa they want to be a central hub for supplies of oil and nat gas. Than theres Iran whos offered multiple times to cover any shortages they want the money.



posted on Jun, 12 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: peck420




You do understand that the issue will centre on natural gas, not oil?


No it is centered around oil...

You see if Russia decides to cut oil off from Ukraine it stops those countries that used to get it after Ukraine and they will not be seeing it in the near future if things get worse.


A large portion of Russian oil bound for Western Europe passes through Ukraine.



A report from the Capital Economics research group notes that Russia is a major supplier of oil to Germany and the Netherlands in particular "and of natural gas to Western Europe generally."


www.cbsnews.com...



And, no Saudi Arabia does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. The rest of the world, currently, does not produce enough to offset the shortfall. Nor does Europe have the infrastructure to receive enough, to offset the shortfall, via train, pipe, or port.


You do understand that Russia is producing around their max with Saudi Arabia able to ramp up 3 million more barrels a day.

Russia...10,900,000 barrels a day

Saudi Arabia...9,900,000 barrels a day with the capacity of 12,000,000 barrels a day so yes Saudi Arabia can cover the shortfall.

And there is no need for any infrastructure to handle the oil as it is already there, also it will not be a huge surplus as it is just covering what Russia is not able to do because of Ukraine turmoil.

I don't think it would be meant as anything other than a short term solution.




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