Iraq crisis: Islamists force 500,000 to flee Mosul

You guys are here complaining about how its the US fault for this situation and Iraq does not deserve this, But wait....

What about Iraqs military? they have soldiers....

But they Fled. Cowards.

If the Soldiers had half as much compassion as you arm chair politicians do, then maybe they wouldnt be in such a terrible mess.

But they Fled. Cowards.

Shedding their uniforms, dropping their weapons, begging for civie clothes, what do you think the people were thinking when they saw THEIR SOLDIERS, SUPPOSED DEFENDERS OF THEIR NEW NATION crying for garments to conceal themselves, lest they be identified?

It doesn't what what the US did, its over with an we left then with a host of equipment and training, so how they utilize that is for them to say an plan.
In the end, that blame falls on those soldiers unwillingly to fight for their own people, don't blame the US with the usual Anti west rhetoric this thread will obviously generate, blame those Iraq soldiers, they could have fought an maintained their positions with superior fire power.....

BUT THEY FLED. COWARDS.

HOW can the US Trained Iraqi Army not take back a city from "militants"?

Send 50k troops in.

a reply to: snarky412

You can color in Tikrit in red on that map now.

Iraq's Tikrit falls to militants

Tikrit (Iraq) (AFP) - Militants took control of the Iraqi city of Tikrit and freed hundreds of prisoners on Wednesday, police said, the second provincial capital to fall in two days.

"All of Tikrit is in the hands of the militants," a police colonel said of the Salaheddin provincial capital, which lies roughly half way between Baghdad and Iraq's second city Mosul which fell on Tuesday.

a reply to: Arnie123

Unless you would honestly and serious suggest there is something built in by being "Iraqi" which makes them incapable of the same tasks performed by Western people ..then it most definitely *IS* our fault.

We took direct OWNERSHIP of Iraq, everything inside it and everyone living there when Baghdad fell and national control was established by provo command to replace the civilian government.

Like the Military breaks a man down to a wimpy wuss...to THEN build him back up to be a man they want as a soldier? It *IS* our obligation and ..not just morally..but legally so, in insuring the nations we invade are not left worse off when we leave.

When we destroy everything they have .....and they have nothing workable left? It really is on us to rebuild it or accept the aftermath for not having done that. We failed...and Iraq burns. Bush and Obama can go roast weenies and marshmallows or something. They both made this nightmare happen.

a reply to: CALGARIAN

Exactly.

but instead they ran an hid, with their tails tucked.

Whats disgusting is this isn't an invasion force fighting in another country, this was THEM defending THERE country from hostile enemies and they fled, the audacity.

Did I flee in fire fights? No. Because we had a mission and the mission always comes first. You accomplish it no matter what.
Defined, Indoctrinated, Move out. Simple.

If I had fled like those soldiers did, shoot my ass in the back with no remorse or sympathy, I wouldn't blame you, but thank you for ending that cowardice.

a reply to: buni11687

They may really want to consider evacuation procedures on the Embassy in Baghdad. Thats no small thing and it's damn near a city within a city ...but mighty fortresses have fallen from a starting point greater than that one. In fact...it's right in the area that's literally happened in, too. (sigh)

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

with respect, I TOTALLY DISAGREE.

We went in, laid the hurt and moved on, cool I got it.

From their we helped the iraqis out, help build infrastructure, provide economic aid and military training.

With regards to military training, the situation is really simple, our mission was complete, all you guys cried about troop withdrawal, OK. Drawdown, we got them out, not that trouble is brewing again, we shouldn't really be worried, they have a strong military that is trained an ready to fight, or so we thought.
Its no OUR FAULT that those soldiers can't fight for THEIR people, that's what I'm ultimately getting at, these are THEIR soldiers and they couldn't even put a dent in those forces, but rather flee an cower.

a reply to: stormcell

True, but since the soldiers fled the military installation, the militants now have much better equipment and weapons.

a reply to: Arnie123

The U.S. Military was there for the better part of a decade.

This whole 'responsible for every aspect of running the nation you conquer' isn't just a good idea. It's based in international principles of law to my understanding. We can't go into a nation, DESTROY their infrastructure, DESTROY everything they have for defense and security services, allow to BE destroyed damn near everything else for infrastructure ...then say, 'hell guys, sorry about that, wasn't OUR job to do that part!' as we wave goodbye.

Doesn't our side realize..OTHER nations WATCH this stuff?? In 10 years we may need, by DIRE need, to get help and support in an operation which comes similar to 2003 in the initial approach but, lets play here by saying it's REAL this time and even people here would agree for the example. Fat chance anyone but maybe CANADA is willing to work with and trust us again for a damn thing for a generation or two to come.

We did this in Vietnam...and the world, I believe, largely gave us a pass on a one off screw up of horrible leaders or judgement by the 1990's. Now we've done it in Iraq and about to do it in Afghanistan. Thats 3 within the lifetimes of many people walking around or IN power today.

3's a pattern and our credibility for action in the world now is about as bad as that black mud known to flow down the center of those Iraqi streets.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

They know better than to attack the embassy. If not, that could lead to their own end if they draw us back into Iraq... It would be a self defeating act for them.

But stranger things have happened.... The real question is, that if they are successful in taking over all of Iraq... Will the Obama administration recognize them as the new legitimate leaders of Iraq?

Remember Egypt?

a reply to: ausername

Yeah.. They know better than to attack a State Department compound with Americans inside it. Damn..look at what happened to those fools in Benghazi who tried to ...oh..wait...

Yeah.. nvm.

a reply to: Arnie123

I honestly cannot believe what you have written here. You realize the US totally disbanded Iraqis military right? You are totally and completely outnumbered by militants. You are totally outgunned. I am sorry... peoples first reaction is to save their own lives. You were not there. Yet you call them cowards? Try watching an ISIS video. They have to be one of the most brutal groups assembled anywhere maybe ever. You realize Americans... Germans... Japanese... Russians...Chinese... English... Turks... All have done exactly what these soldiers did in similar circumstances. To call them cowards and blame this on them is shortsighted and frankly stupid. If you honestly believe the US bears no responsibility for what is occurring now then I am sorry.

I honestly cannot believe what you wrote. You were not there. You don't know the circumstances. You do not know what they were facing. Yet you have no hesitation in blaming poorly trained ill equipped rag tag soldiers for trying to save their lives. You seemingly are blaming Iraq for a vacuum the US left them in. The civil war was just a matter of time.

a reply to: Britguy

WE?

I never voted for Bush. In fact I actively protested his election and his war in Iraq on several occasions in the streets of San Francisco.

I never voted for Nobel peace prize winner Obama who declared the war a success and left it in it's current state either. Then he unilaterally implemented regime change and attacked Libya and made even a bigger mess.

My conscience is clean.

a reply to: snarky412

What happened I thought Dear leader said Al-Qaeda was defeated ?

Do you think dear leader lied to us for political gain? He wouldn't do that would he ?

Yup Iraq was ready to stand on its own.

/ sarcasm off

I use to think Obama was poorly advised now I believe what he does is for a reason and not for our benefit.

Headline should be corrected to read:

"Tikrit Falls To Shiite Majority"

This was inevitable, and it has been ever since the Ottoman Empire imported Arab Sunnis to rule over the local Shiite populations.

It's like the end of the previous "Republic of South Africa", where the undeveloped 75% finally overwhelmed the educated & moneyed 25% ethnic minority.

History is a slow-motion race riot, as seen here.

a reply to: tovenar

This is something a bit new and it's not a Shia thing by any stretch. The ISIS are who just took Mosul and Tikrit, and they aren't a secondary group just coming up. They're also not just looking to control Iraq. They're working for a transnational Islamic State.

It's led by this guy...

Much of what is known of Baghdadi’s history is unconfirmed, while other information is disputed to such a degree that it’s nearly impossible to discern where fact meets Baghdadi’s rising myth.

Several facts, however, are clear: Baghdadi leads the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. He is a shrewd strategist, a prolific fundraiser and a ruthless killer. The United States has a $10 million bounty on his head. He has thrown off the yoke of al-Qaeda command and just took his biggest prize yet in Mosul, an oil hub that sits at the vital intersection of Iraq, Turkey and Syria. And in just one year of grisly killing, he has in all likelihood surpassed even al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri in international clout and prestige among Islamist militants.

Al Qaeda wasn't bad ENOUGH for this guy. Not big enough. Small minded or something, apparently. (sigh) To go on reading his Bio though, he's also very well educated. That is NOT a good thing, as an adversary anyway.

Holding degrees in Islamic studies and history, he is believed to have been an Islamic preacher around the time of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. The chaos of those months drove the 30-something into militancy, and he formed an armed group in eastern Iraq, one that reportedly never rose out of obscurity.

Yup... Could have figured that would come in somewhere.. We have this knack for making our own worst enemies to pop-up down the road.

On just how dangerous this whole thing could be though for where this guy's approach is? There is a final section worth quoting from they guy heading what is happening right now.

“I chose the command of God over the command that runs against it in the letter,” Baghdadi told al-Qaeda leader Zawahiri, who had tried to bring the rogue commander back into line.

Since, the power of Baghdadi, who some say may soon establish himself as emir of a new Islamic state, has only grown. As has that of ISIS.

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world’s most powerful jihadist leader

Other links: ISIS Background / ISIS Current Campaign background

a reply to: Arnie123
cowards?
after facing a war started by the lie of 911
they were bought off with skids of money paid for by people who must be....
oh nevermind...
you know what and who you are

now, have a nice day anyway





also which of these islamist groups is not funded by the US and or nato and Israel ( well with the US tax payers money)...?
the friends of John McCain strike again
ye-haw!

a reply to: Arnie123

But they Fled. Cowards.

Well ... if the US picked a side to stand up for ... we should've expected that outcome. I'm not a smart guy, but even I saw this coming a mile off. Time to rinse and repeat the very moment the supply of oil is threatened.

I wish I could ask a few of the guys I used to play football with in school how they feel about this horror-
but I can't because they are dead.
In Iraq,Afghanistan,they died.
They died so the rest of us can let crazy mofos take over Iraq???

What the hell did they make the ultimate sacrifice for?
This upside down world makes me sick to the bones.

AAARgh humans can do better than this crap...

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

They died so the rest of us can let crazy mofos take over Iraq???

There's no subtle way to make the point. They did not die to keep Americans free. They died because people with an agenda sent them into harm's way.

I think some of this thought process spilled over into another thread I'm watching ATM. Neo96 came real close to specifying the guilty party's name. As close as anyone's able to at least.

There's a bigger picture here. I can sense it, but I can't see it. Wrabbit said something like, "Hung out to dry three times." I see two major times with a third on the way. It's merely perspective, but I think we all know the story's not quite over yet.