Citizens against war. An honest question

originally posted by: KyoZero
Ok so like all great threads....or bad ones...this came from watching a movie and got me thinking

so watching Forrest Gump...fantastic film still

anywho to the meat of the conversation

Gump goes to Vietnam and as we all know Vietnam was a poorly received war that was not popular at all

So I am sure we've all seen it but here comes the questions

1. Do you think citizens who have zero military experience deserves a voice and deserves to speak out when they themselves either weren't drafted or made no effort to be a soldier?

2. Do you think it's fair to get mad at soldiers for fighting? Are soldiers culpable or are they a tool of the military machine and are innocent?

Just some thoughts

please look and notice nowhere did I state my opinions yet so let's not jump all over me and assume my position

Great questions. I'll answer before reading the other relies and being influenced by them>

#1 - Yes, everyone should have a voice. That is the reason that (in the USA at least) the military is under civilian control. Unfortunately most citizenry is easily led into the frenzy of War Fever.

2) I think there are two issues here as there are two classes of militiary service. The chain of command is vital for operational efficiency and hence the enlisted class and lower officer class must obey commands. That however does not mean that they are not to think or voice their opinion within the structure of the organization. Young, lower grade officers often learn to defer to their sargents if they are smart. Seasoned and, I have to say in todays military, reasoned military officers are the last people that want to use military force. (I do believe this has changed and is a major cause of early retirements and resignations over the last 15 years).

For entertaining fictional representations of these points of view see "The Seize" and "Crimsom Tide".

Just an Army Brats humble but educated opinion.

a reply to: KyoZero

1. Yes, I do. My reasoning is this. Every action that our country does has an effect, either direct or indirect, on the people within it. Those effects can be as myriad as the effects of economic sanctions, increased national debt due to war, public opinion of the country outside of the country (tourist effects), and the possibility of draft. Regardless of whether or not we are drafted or have served, we are all stakeholders when our country opts to go to war and the opinion of all stakeholders should be considered. Period. If it were any other way, it wouldn't be a democracy at all.

2. No. While there is the option for soldiers to become a conscientious objector, that specific route is filled with a significant amount of issue through both peer affects and difficulty obtaining that status. Additionally, going against or not following orders may also pose dangers to their fellow soldiers and may also have other long lasting effects such as a dishonorable discharge. Our soldiers are not in the easiest of positions at all and if something untoward occurs, the commanding officer should be the one looked at and criticized if an order was given--not the soldiers themselves. If the soldiers do something on their own volition without command authority or authorization, then yes, the fallout of said action should fall upon them.

1. Do you think citizens who have zero military experience deserves a voice and deserves to speak out when they themselves either weren't drafted or made no effort to be a soldier?

The very idea the current US military actions could be possibly construed as a struggle to "preserve our freedoms," is sickening and appalling. Anyone who believes this claptrap mantra needs a frontal lobotomy and deserves to be ignored.

2. Do you think it's fair to get mad at soldiers for fighting? Are soldiers culpable or are they a tool of the military machine and are innocent? - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Angry? No...Celebrated? Definitely no...
Here are the NEW Rules...At the first open display of the urge to physically exert any form of control over another human , the individual should be carted off to a one square mile of land surrounded by an inescapable barrier of some sort. There, they can remain free to exercise their mindset and particular lifestyle among people of their own ilk and Neanderthal-like intelligence.

Absolutely everyone should have a voice. If only those with military experience had a voice, then only the brainwashed would be speaking.

Soldiers fight for many reasons. I just think it's a crock when people say they are fighting for our freedom. If that's the case, their mission is failing horribly. Sorry troops. While you were fighting for our so called freedom, Big Brother took over and now you work for him and his interests.

wow thanks for the answers!

Ok so let's be fair and make me answer my own questions

1. I absolutely 100% agree that soldier or not a citizen has every right to oppose or support a war

As many have said, currently these wars we fight are IMO appalling. We fight for oil not for what is right which of course brings me to point 2

2. I have a hard time with this one. I am a former 2W2. I was not forced into my job and yes I regret it some days to be honest. The only problem I have is when people automatically tell soldiers they are to be pitied. On one hand soldiers did make the conscious choice. I just think it's a bit rough to assume all soldiers are misguided and brainless or to say (as I have seen some posters here and elsewhere say) that soldiers are psychopaths and infantile and deserve our shunning.

Alot to think about really but I thank all of you for taking the time to answer

I don't need them to love me,I KNOW in their heads the bottom line is really "Better him than me". That is correct

a reply to: spiritualzombie

To burst your bubble .. did my time with s.o.g four tours in a little place called vietnam back in the 60's before you were a gleam in your daddys eye .. and in the years since have worked as a physician putting people back together in warzones around the world.. i thoroughly detest war and do my best to discourage others from making that mistake ..

Dont judge others unless youve walked in their shoes.. not all of us are / were unthinking machines so spare me the sanctimonious bovine fecal matter kid ..