Texas GOP endorses ‘treatment’ for homosexuality

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: smithjustinb

There is absolutely no point in having a conversation with you. You just throw straw man and ridiculous circular arguments to fit your 'beliefs', that aren't support by any kind of facts what so ever.

~Tenth

Mental disorder:

A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life (disability), and which is not developmentally or socially normative.

It is not developmentally normative. For sure. And procreative abilities to function are impaired. Therefore, its a mental disorder.

Oh come off it. You've labelled masturbation a perversion, you think that sex should only be about procreation and you think that gay people should be studied in order to find a cure. Were you brought up in a 1950's Catholic school run by the ghost of Eamon deValera?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: smithjustinb

That's why I'm advocating research. That's all I'm doing.

Medical and psychological experts have put decades of research into the DSM-V. They decided back in 1973 that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation. It's different from the majority ... but it's a NORMAL VARIATION. Expected. Within norms. Not a mental illness. Research continues by the experts - including the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association - and those experts continue to state clearly that homosexuality is not a mental illness.

I want to believe you but citing the validity of the dsm and theroies is not gonna do it for anyone that sees what lies inside the covers. It is total control of all the masses.

I read the link provided by Flyer's Fan and I remain unconvinced of the study's conclusiveness. The study that made the "final determination" that homosexuality was a normal variation of human sexuality involved analyzing the differences in gay people and straight people's "psychological adjustment"

adjustment, in psychology, the behavioral process by which humans and other animals maintain an equilibrium among their various needs or between their needs and the obstacles of their environments. A sequence of adjustment begins when a need is felt and ends when it is satisfied. Hungry people, for example, are stimulated by their physiological state to seek food. When they eat, they reduce the stimulating condition that impelled them to activity, and they are thereby adjusted to this particular need.

The problem with the study is that it doesn't address the link between sexual release and procreation. It only examines the relationship of adjustment of the desire for pleasure stimulated and resolved by the act of sex. But it doesn't examine the disposition of the earth to procreate as an end to a means of intercourse, which is the point I've been arguing all along. So, I remain unconvinced, but now my opinion is an educated one. As I suspected, the studies are inconclusive and require further research. I hope that one day, we can move past this emotionally charged rhetoric and get these people the treatment that some of them want and need.

psychology.ucdavis.edu...

originally posted by: smithjustinb
I read the link provided by Flyer's Fan and I remain unconvinced of the study's conclusiveness. The study that made the "final determination" that homosexuality was a normal variation of human sexuality involved analyzing the differences in gay people and straight people's "psychological adjustment"

adjustment, in psychology, the behavioral process by which humans and other animals maintain an equilibrium among their various needs or between their needs and the obstacles of their environments. A sequence of adjustment begins when a need is felt and ends when it is satisfied. Hungry people, for example, are stimulated by their physiological state to seek food. When they eat, they reduce the stimulating condition that impelled them to activity, and they are thereby adjusted to this particular need.

The problem with the study is that it doesn't address the link between sexual release and procreation. It only examines the relationship of adjustment of the desire for pleasure stimulated and resolved by the act of sex. But it doesn't examine the disposition of the earth to procreate as an end to a means of intercourse, which is the point I've been arguing all along. So, I remain unconvinced, but now my opinion is an educated one. As I suspected, the studies are inconclusive and require further research. I hope that one day, we can move past this emotionally charged rhetoric and get these people the treatment that some of them want and need.

psychology.ucdavis.edu...

I'm not entirely sure why you included the link that you discovered. This is from its conclusion: empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.

how do you explain one identical twin (genetically identical) being gay and the other straight? It happens and has been studied.

It is not in ones dna, it is a learned behavior plain and simple. Deny ignorance please.

If one removes the false pretext that it is something one is born with then one must draw the conclusion that it is an affect of environment and life experience. And in turn should not be promoted to children as "normal" or even "ok". It should be treated as what it is and what it always has been. A social disorder that can be treated and prevented.

Now that that's out of the way, go Texas! Some one has to counter all of this ridiculous propaganda that is being pushed on the oh so gullible public.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg


I'm not entirely sure why you included the link that you discovered. This is from its conclusion: empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.

The conclusion was based on inconclusive studies. So its not much of a conclusion and doesn't hold much merit. Some websites conclude that aliens have been visiting earth for thousands of years because some cave drawings suggest so. In conclusion, not every conclusion is conclusive. You fail to acknowledge my demonstration of this in the post you are replying to.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg


I'm not entirely sure why you included the link that you discovered. This is from its conclusion: empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.

The conclusion was based on inconclusive studies. So its not much of a conclusion and doesn't hold much merit. Some websites conclude that aliens have been visiting earth for thousands of years because some cave drawings suggest so. In conclusion, not every conclusion is conclusive.

Nice try, but here's the full conclusion: "Some psychologists and psychiatrists still hold negative personal attitudes toward homosexuality. However, empirical evidence and professional norms do not support the idea that homosexuality is a form of mental illness or is inherently linked to psychopathology.
The foregoing should not be construed as an argument that sexual minority individuals are free from mental illness and psychological distress. Indeed, given the stresses created by sexual stigma and prejudice, it would be surprising if some of them did not manifest psychological problems (Meyer, 2003). The data from some studies suggest that, although most sexual minority individuals are well adjusted, nonheterosexuals may be at somewhat heightened risk for depression, anxiety, and related problems, compared to exclusive heterosexuals (Cochran & Mays, 2006).
Unfortunately, because of the way they were originally designed, most of these studies do not yield information about whether and to what extent such risks might be greater for various subgroups within the sexual minority population (e.g., individuals who identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual versus those who do not; bisexuals versus lesbians and gay men). In future research, it will be important to compare different sexual minority groups in order to understand how so many individuals withstand the stresses imposed by sexual prejudice, and to identify effective strategies for treating those with psychological problems."

In other words some non-heterosexuals might be at risk from conditions like depression. Given the amount of homophobia out there this is somewhat understandable. Still not a mental illness though.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

That's nice. You still failed to recognize my argument for why I have determined that the studies are inconclusive, regardless of how much the inconclusive article claims the studies are conclusive. My argument for its inconclusiveness is found in the reply 5 posts up from this one, if you care to supply an actual counter argument.

originally posted by: smithjustinb
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

That's nice. You still failed to recognize my argument for why I have determined that the studies are inconclusive, regardless of how much the inconclusive article claims the studies are conclusive. My argument for its inconclusiveness is found in the reply 5 posts up from this one, if you care to supply an actual counter argument.

I did consider your post, but then I realised that your previous comments made it null and void. You seem to think that the only reason for sex is procreation. The problem is that once we evolved to the point where we started having orgasms sex became more than just continuing the species but also fun. Why do we have sex? Some want to have babies, obviously. Some want to give and receive pleasure. The two are linked - but can be disconnected. My wife can't have babies. It's a burden we've learnt to live with. Have we stopped having sex? No, of course not. Don't be silly, why would we do something so selfish and stupid? You also seem to think that masturbation is perverted. Good grief, why? It's healthy and it's normal.

Tsk, tsk, tsk... the things that people do in this world!

And I am going to add my ignorant leanings to the matter!

I have studied meditation - and I feel that radio waves can be made to mess with people's heads.

In fact, courtesy of learning meditation, and simultaneously the effects brought about by radio waves - I am personally of the opinion that it is not ok to be homosexual.

That isn't to say I support the freedom of those individuals that prefer that lifestyle to practice whatever they choose - as long as they don't come on to me - I've heard enough of those stories and had enough experience with it to last a lifetime. It is quite common to have had encounters (homosexuals going out of their way to hit on others) in some parts of the world. Not that heterosexuals don't hit on anyone either.

I submit that it is possible to "convert" someone using radio wave technology - and we see examples of people "crossing" the boundaries, going from one taste to an entirely different one - I argue as evidence of such "tampering".

Unfortunately, I don't believe that most people have much choice in the matter, with regards to "tampering" - but using meditation alone - I can mess with other people myself - and have, when I feel particularly threatened by something that goes on in the "environment".

It remains to be seen whether it will be found to be an "issue" that can be medically resolved. I'm not so sure of that - although, I do believe that meditation can help undo "tampering".

Even issues such as "impotence", I submit, is a possible sign of tampering. I've even come to understand that many medical and mental disorders can be caused by said mechanisms.

I feel really bad for people. I am sure that there are people who have mentally twisted minds that are unaware of said "tampering" - they would feel that the rest of us are the ones who have mental issues.

They could be right, you know.

originally posted by: begoodbees
It is not in ones dna, it is a learned behavior plain and simple. Deny ignorance please.

Yes .. please start denying ignorance. It would be nice.
You are dead wrong.

Huffington Post

A 1992 study showed that the anterior commissure, a smaller connection between the brain’s two hemispheres, is larger in homosexual men than in straight men.

Science Magazine - A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men

The anterior hypothalamus of the brain participates in the regulation of male-typical sexual behavior. The volumes of four cell groups in this region [interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH) 1, 2, 3, and 4] were measured in postmortem tissue from three subject groups: women, men who were presumed to be heterosexual, and homosexual men. No differences were found between the groups in the volumes of INAH 1, 2, or 4. As has been reported previously, INAH 3 was more than twice as large in the heterosexual men as in the women. It was also, however, more than twice as large in the heterosexual men as in the homosexual men. This finding indicates that INAH is dimorphic with sexual orientation, at least in men, and suggests that sexual orientation has a biological substrate.

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects

Cerebral responses to putative pheromones and objects of sexual attraction were recently found to differ between homo- and heterosexual subjects. Although this observation may merely mirror perceptional differences, it raises the intriguing question as to whether certain sexually dimorphic features in the brain may differ between individuals of the same sex but different sexual orientation. We addressed this issue by studying hemispheric asymmetry and functional connectivity, two parameters that in previous publications have shown specific sex differences. Ninety subjects [25 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW), and 20 homosexual men (HoM) and women (HoW)] were investigated with magnetic resonance volumetry of cerebral and cerebellar hemispheres. Fifty of them also participated in PET measurements of cerebral blood flow, used for analyses of functional connections from the right and left amygdalae. HeM and HoW showed a rightward cerebral asymmetry, whereas volumes of the cerebral hemispheres were symmetrical in HoM and HeW. No cerebellar asymmetries were found. Homosexual subjects also showed sex-atypical amygdala connections. In HoM, as in HeW, the connections were more widespread from the left amygdala; in HoW and HeM, on the other hand, from the right amygdala. Furthermore, in HoM and HeW the connections were primarily displayed with the contralateral amygdala and the anterior cingulate, in HeM and HoW with the caudate, putamen, and the prefrontal cortex. The present study shows sex-atypical cerebral asymmetry and functional connections in homosexual subjects. The results cannot be primarily ascribed to learned effects, and they suggest a linkage to neurobiological entities.

Sexual orientation and the size of the anterior commissure in the human brain

The anterior commissure, a fiber tract that is larger in its midsagittal area in women than in men, was examined in 90 postmortem brains from homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. The midsagittal plane of the anterior commissure in homosexual men was 18% larger than in heterosexual women and 34% larger than in heterosexual men. This anatomical difference, which correlates with gender and sexual orientation, may, in part, underlie differences in cognitive function and cerebral lateralization among homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. Moreover, this finding of a difference in a structure not known to be related to reproductive functions supports the hypothesis that factors operating early in development differentiate sexually dimorphic structures and functions of the brain, including the anterior commissure and sexual orientation, in a global fashion.

Stress during pregnancy results in higher numbers of homosexual births.
Brain Development and Sexual Orientation

Homosexuality = natural sexual variant in different animal species, including humans.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Thank goodness all these studies are conclusive evidence.

There are apparently people who report having "overcome" their differences with homosexuality by simply partaking in it often enough.

What also of those who seem to have a change in orientation - you haven't covered why this happens. It also doesn't make sense that you argue that there is a consistent difference in certain sections of the brain - size wise - are you saying that those who have a change in orientation are experiencing a change in the size of sections of their brain?

There are also people who report - as you point out that they are wired as such, and so they cannot understand what someone else sees in being different both for hetero and homo sexual individuals. Some of those people might actually argue with you.

You've also mentioned a study that indicates that stress causes a change in the orientation of the individual during gestation - so if stresses weren't present - then more people would have been heterosexual.

Getting rid of stress during pregnancy would "cure" the problem then.

So where is the paper there with the signatures of the 'Texas GOP' saying they 'endorse' this ?

WHERE ?

All that has been shown is a government funded 'news' article from PBS.

Also:

“There’s a very, very small group of people who want to keep the party in the past.

That by itself exposes the false narrative of the article..

The new anti-gay language never came up for debate before roughly 7,000 delegates ratified a Texas GOP platform that tea party groups succeeded in pushing further to the right, including winning a harder line on immigration.

7000 delegates eh ?

Whats the population of Texas again ?

including winning a harder line on immigration

I agree with a hardline on immigration.

People who break the law should not get rewarded for it.

Besides anyone paying attention to the southern border the past few days with this crap going on:

Consul: Illegal Immigrant Children Complaining Burritos, Eggs They Are Being Fed Making Them Sick

Border agents warn of ‘chicken pox, MRSA staph’ from illegal child crossings

Influx of Illegal Alien Minors a Disaster; Overcrowded Shelters, Diseases, Sexually Active Teens

illegal immigration is a bigger issue that someone being homosexual.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: smithjustinb
You just described gender reassignment surgery.
That's a totally different subject than homosexuality.

Yet when discussing this issue on a political scale, LGB is proceeded with a T.

I think they added a "Q".

I think it stands for Queer. not 100% sure.

Carry on..

It stands for Questioning. Can also stand for Queer.

a reply to: neo96

Well, there's this. Oh and this.

originally posted by: begoodbees
how do you explain one identical twin (genetically identical) being gay and the other straight? It happens and has been studied.

It is not in ones dna, it is a learned behavior plain and simple. Deny ignorance please.

If one removes the false pretext that it is something one is born with then one must draw the conclusion that it is an affect of environment and life experience. And in turn should not be promoted to children as "normal" or even "ok". It should be treated as what it is and what it always has been. A social disorder that can be treated and prevented.

Now that that's out of the way, go Texas! Some one has to counter all of this ridiculous propaganda that is being pushed on the oh so gullible public.

Wait ....LOL you just said it was a learned behavior and basically a simple choice. It's neither. One does not simply choose ones sexual orientation. You did not wake up and choose to be straight. Let's deny ignorance, shall we?

a reply to: smithjustinb

originally posted by: smithjustinb
a reply to: HardCorps

We need to do more to increase the effectiveness of homosexual treatment programs. We need to support more extensive research programs that can find the brain impairments that lead to and cause homosexuality and develop medication or therapeutic processes which have an effect on these impaired regions of male and female brains.

In the meantime, we all need to treat any person with an impairment with the same respect that you would treat people with normal brains. Just like a person with down syndrome should not be bullied, but should be cared for, so should gay people.

What we don't need to do is encourage this illness. That can only propagate it and is counter-productive to a mentally stable and healthy society.

Wow you really are serious. This is a very sad state ATS is in... a cesspool for the conservative about 80% of posters here have the same mentality you have. I love the USA and I love my great state of Texas I wouldn't want to live anywhere else but wow the people in office here are just killing this great state. I would maybe suggest that you have some sort of mental illness but in no way would I want to insult the unfortunate people who actually do suffer from mental illness.

I know people are allowed to be idiots in this country but this is just sick twisted thinking. I seriously suggest you turn over your firearms to a trusted family member who is legally allowed to care for firearms and seek serious immediate psychiatric help.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: neo96

Well, there's this. Oh and this.

And ?

Read the first line ?

'Temporary Platform Committee Report'.

What does temporary mean ?

Set in stone ?

The 'last word' ?

Means it is subject to change.

originally posted by: beezzer
Personally, I would endorse "treatment" for liberalism/progressive thinking before I would endorse "treatment" for gayness.
People are so stupid.

Maybe. Do you suppose that Texas GOP Tea Party group behind this endorsement could possibly be partly made up of closet "Libruls"?

I've seen some hardcore "conservative" TV preachers railing against homosexuals who later were caught with their pants down while joining in with them. That has led me to speculate that some of the most vocal homophobes may have some vexatious ambiguity issues with their own sexuality. If only Pharma could come up with a pill that would make those annoying urges go away for those folks. I'm sure it would be a big seller especially around the most testosterone-laden macho hangouts, bigger than Viagra even.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: smithjustinb
I can see that there is something wrong.

normal variant of human sexuality
normal variant of human sexuality
normal variant of human sexuality

Sinking in yet? People better educated than either of us have done research .. mountains of it .. and this is what they say ... normal variant of human sexuality.

Normal variant is double talk. I think you are confusing education with indoctrination because that is what you and your "people better educated" have paid for and received.

In real language normal is the opposite of a variant and visa versa. There is no such thing as a normal variant. The normal or control is there in order to compare against deviations from the norm.

Aslo for much longer than the past 40 years that you refer to as "decades and decades" it was understood by people much more educated than either of us that this is a disorder. It was money through lobbyists that changed the official definition and nothing else.