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How has it come to this?

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posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Watching the protests in Ottawa today kind of hit home. The protests werent huge but they still were pretty significant in my opinion. Twenty years ago our president was cheered when he would visit most foreign countries, especially allies. In countries such as Canada, Germany, and England you would have never seen major protests like the one today in Canada. Now, it must be known that Im in no way bashing President Bush or supporting Senator Kerry in this statement as I really didnt support either but I will support my elected president. The question is though, How have we come to this in such a relatively short period of time? Could we be the only ones on this planet that have the right answers or has fear gripped us so much that we are willing to overlook what the rest of the world can see? Are we really prepared and willing to go it alone if need be? Could it be though, that its just simply a case of without the evil empire of the Soviet Union, we are the only super power left to focus the worlds ills on? Its pretty disheartening, for whatever reason, to see how fast we have become what the rest of the planet considers the evil empire of the world. What are your thoughts?




posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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As a matter of fact, no US president has EVER been welcomed that way in Ottawa!

Is it so exaggerated to say that Bush is the most unpopular president in US history? I think not...

Even Nixon has not been treated with such anger after the Watergate scandal.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
As a matter of fact, no US president has EVER been welcomed that way in Ottawa!

Is it so exaggerated to say that Bush is the most unpopular president in US history? I think not...

Even Nixon has not been treated with such anger after the Watergate scandal.



I know, that's what alarms me so much. I wonder if it's not just a matter of people having access to more information these days. We, the world, are being spoon fed what ever the media wants to tell us and how ever they want to tell it.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:56 AM
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The expansion program into Afghanistan and Iraq was predicated on:

* 9/11 being employed as the last leg of a "trifecta" needed by the Bush administration and the neo-cons to commence foreign incursions in the form of a posse to catch terrorists;

* dividing nations into those "for the US" and those "against the US";

* deception of Congress and coalition allies with false, known to be fraudulent and fabricated intelligence;

* a media campaign with an ever-changing set of goalposts as to why the invasion of Iraq took place, from imminent danger with stockpiles of readily deployable WMDs to evidence of WMD "programs" to the removal of a tyrannical dictator to stabilization and "democratization" of the occupied territory.

These events will never be forgotten by close observers.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:57 AM
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I did not touch on election fraud or personal performance of the incumbent "president". No need.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:31 AM
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Bush is absolutly LOATHED for his foreign policy, and for all the things that Masked Avatar pointed out (among other things.) He wants everyone to play ball with him ... but not to play with others.

One point was the Kyoto Environment Treaty, which would have had us reducing our pollution levels (because we ARE the biggest polluter in the world. The rest of the world urged him to sign, but his buds in the oil business didn't want it. So he goes with his buds.

He ignored chances to band with the UN to clean up countries in Africa where there's some horrible genocide -- in favor of killing Iraqis. And on, and on and on.

You can't play a game of "do everything I tell you because I'm me -- just don't expect me to do what you want" with powerful nations. Nobody likes to be used or abused.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:52 AM
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I think people in general are having problems in all countries for starters. No matter where ya go, Governments, Big Business, or something is screwing things up for everyone else. This has basically put everyone in a mood where they're tired of all the crap and they're getting pissed off to the point that they are willing to protest.

On top of that, America, one of the Worlds Super Powers, has been waging war for a while now. People Don't Like WAR!!! They especially don't like it when there are so many mysterious things surrounding that war. Bush is a Cowboy and Cowboy's usually step on alot of toes as they're riding off, waving their hat and shootin their gun in the air. Once again, since America IS such a force in this world, it scares and angers people when such a force starts pushing it's weight around cause even if you're not an enemy now, you may be next!!

Just think about it. Bush gets protests here in his own country too, so why would it be any different anywhere else. His charisma sucks, or atleast at best it's simply average. Clinton was a crook too, as was Bush Sr. but for the most part people liked them cause they were better at bull#ting than Dubya. (That goes double for Clinton!!)

Dubya isn't even a good liar. When it comes to secrets or covering up his poor planning, (and even worse actions), he either pukes up the typical 'Fight Terror' fear propoganda or just sits there refusing to say anything. Think back a couple terms and you'll remember Bush Sr. didn't exactly recieve truck loads of Fan Mail after he became The Town Cowboy either!!

Besides, people get pissed off and fight about everything from their favorite team losing to someone looking at their girlfriend the wrong way. Why would they be any different just because someone is president? In fact, anyone who holds a position such as that should be getting yelled at by someone for some reason every day. If not then he obviously isn't doing anything at all but sittin' on his butt and if that's all he's doing then WE DON'T NEED THEM DO WE?!?!?

Anyone who has the power to launch the worlds largest military into ongoing war half way across the globe as well as order the complete 'Lock Down' of their own country needs to have every single person alive either watching his ass or trying to kick it!!! If they want a parade or sing along they can have that when they're done SERVING THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR!!! (BTW they work for us!! People seem to forget that little catch in the contract which is why I feel the need to remind them at times like these.)



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
One point was the Kyoto Environment Treaty, which would have had us reducing our pollution levels (because we ARE the biggest polluter in the world. The rest of the world urged him to sign, but his buds in the oil business didn't want it. So he goes with his buds.


I agree, this is so frustrating to know that we had finally begun to see positive results and he just pulls out. It's obvious that it is just simply to help out these corporations but they try to hide by claiming that it could take jobs. This has got to be infuriating to other countries who want to follow this treaty. I mean, our pollution has to be affecting them directly but they can't do a thing to stop it. Especially in countries such as Canada and to some extent Mexico.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
I did not touch on election fraud or personal performance of the incumbent "president". No need.


Obviously because there has been no election fraud, and the personal performance of GW has been stellar.

Right?



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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I'm not takeing up for Bush here but the internet is a lot more widespread than it was a few years ago. I think that contributes alot to more people around the world knowing what our politicians are up to.
If the internet had been this huge back in Nixon's day, Canadians may have given him the same kind of "welcome" they gave Bush.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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off-topic but the title reminded me of this video

though , its titled .

''how did it come to this''

homepage.mac.com...



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by moxyone

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
I did not touch on election fraud or personal performance of the incumbent "president". No need.


Obviously because there has been no election fraud, and the personal performance of GW has been stellar.

Right?



I don't think you believe that.

In answer to the first point:

www.blackboxvoting.org...


In answer to the second point:

The nearest suitable antonym for "steallar" is "abysmal".



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:09 PM
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Only liberals in this country go out and protest, the conservitives go out and vote. No wonder 7 of the last 10 elections have gone the Republican way.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by elaine
I'm not takeing up for Bush here but the internet is a lot more widespread than it was a few years ago.


I agree with you the spread of international comunication between the people is making the world smaller, we get to know now what is going on around the world in a matter of hours rather than days or weeks.

Plus all of the above post by Byrd and MaskAvatar.


And Frosty, what your post has to do with this thread.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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I live in england & it's gotta be said, the average person out here views bush as the posterboy for everything that's corrupt about America
I don't know how much the US media spin it to make u think as a country we're backing your administration, in reality it's only Tony Blair & select members of his labour government
last time bush was out here the protests were massive but were only allowed in certain areas quite far away from the convoy so I guess to anybody watching in a foreign country it might have looked like there was hardly any resistance to his presence at all
the one good thing that's come out of the bush administration as far as I'm concerned is it's politicised our whole country, we're starting to scrutinise foreign policy a lot more & are extremely skeptical of the people we put in charge, I would say distrust of our own government is at an all time high & a large extent of that is down to our government's willingness to follow American foreign policy even when it's clearly detrimental to our position in europe
to be fair though, we're propagandised by our media just as much in regards to the war on terror & a large majority of the population are afraid which Tony Balir exploits to the fullest, so in that regard we ain't much different



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 10:51 PM
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In Australia we also view Bush as a bit of a joke.

Over here it is now pretty well understood that our Prime Minister is playing his game rather cleverly, and it is just a game. John Howard gets up and says how we are doing our bit for the war on terror, and how awful it all is, and Bush makes a big thing about this on the American media about his loyal Australian allies.

In reality we now have just over three hundred troops in Iraq guarding the Australian embassy and some ships. That is all. But Bush will get his political mileage all the same. Americans probably think we have thousands of troops over there fighting shoulder to shoulder with Americans.

After the Bali bomb blast it was made clear to Australians that we must be seen to back America, or the CIA will launch more terrorist attacks on us to change Australian public opinion. Bali was "our" 9/11. Over 200 Australians died in that blast, and it put an end to to the huge national anti war protests, just as the CIA intended.

Australians are mostly sophisticated enough to see right through Bush and the CIA, so the game goes on. John Howard is no fool, he is having the last laugh at Bush.

When he came out here he was totally hidden from public view. He simply could not face the anti American demonstrators. It would have all been just too embarrassing. He did make a short speech in Parliament. A very short speech...



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:32 AM
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You can spin it any way you want But the reason so many people all over the world hate BUSH is because they are no longer getting every thing their way. !!!
Bush has the balls to stand up and say screw you I will not put Half the people in my country out of work and spend a trillion dollars because you Idiots believe we can stop global warming.

I do believe that our government let a lot of things happen including 9-11. Did they do it or play a part in it NO. But they did let it happen and a lot more, why to further a cause.

And you ask what is that cause? Well I will tell ya. The LONG TERM STABILITY OF THE PLANET. Open your eyes to every thing that makes our world work not just the USA but also all the other countries the economics, politics, human rights, all of it.
How it all inter acts.

Lets take Iraq why did we really go there? Was it because of WMD? What about human rights? Oh I forget the oil lol.

How about the fact that Saddam was taking the sale of Iraqi oil off the Dollar and was saleing it under the Euro. Do you know what would happen to the US Dollar if all the OIL exporting countries started saleing their oil under the Euro instead of the Dollar?

What happens to the world economies if the Dollar becomes extremely devalued over a very short amount of time?

And then there is that thing with the WMD we know he had it DONT WE I mean he used WMD against his on people didnt he?

But hey we did not find anything yet did we so I guess it was wrong that we held him accountable for the fact that he would not let the UN verify that he had destroyed it all or did he? We still do not know where it all is do we.

What about Global Terrorism just who is behind it and what is their real agenda?
Is it OBL? We know he supposedly runs Al Qaeda but do you really think all these people are doing these things just for him for what he believes?

I dont necessarily like every thing that President Bush does but I am sure that he does them for a good reason like trying to make sure this planet does not self implode because of some idiot who wants to bring back the Taliban way of life Or destabilize the world economies so that he can make more money to buy more weapons to invade more countries and kill more people who do not support his way of life.


but then what would I know I'm just a self involved American



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by comppwizz
I do believe that our government let a lot of things happen including 9-11. Did they do it or play a part in it NO. But they did let it happen and a lot more, why to further a cause.

And you ask what is that cause? Well I will tell ya. The LONG TERM STABILITY OF THE PLANET.


I can see your point and agree with you to an extent, but man I don't think it would give to much comfort to the families of the 9-11 victims to know there loved ones were murdered to further a cause.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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One point was the Kyoto Environment Treaty, which would have had us reducing our pollution levels (because we ARE the biggest polluter in the world. The rest of the world urged him to sign, but his buds in the oil business didn't want it. So he goes with his buds.


The problem with the Kyoto accord is that it only imposed pollution curbs on some countries. The limitations on the output from developed countries would've been offset by those from the developing countries in Asia. AIr pollution is as much a problem in China, India, and the rest of Asia:

China's acid rain out of control

edition.cnn.com...

The Kyoto accord is a poor example of international cooperation when only a selected few countries are subject to its restrictions. I think we see time and again in trade agreements that Asian countries aren't held to uphold their promise to open access to their markets for US goods.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
And Frosty, what your post has to do with this thread.


It doesn't relate to this thread. He just wanted to throw in one of his unwise, flawed, and prejudice presumptions in the hopes someone would find it amusing.




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