Can any Christians answer this?

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posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: jester420

First I do believe in god and there is no way of persuading me otherwise though I can not define him but am a christian.

Well since god created the universe and I am not getting into the egg and chicken debate except to point out that there is superspace, then the law's of the universe are artifact's of the design and all resultant actions based there on are part of that design including the earth, perhaps god is a scientists in another universe and it took him six local day's to create our time space in his time space while we exist in a pocket of reality with it's own time flow or perhaps it is simply an unanswerable question and the very act of trying to frame god in your mind is doomed to fail because your/our/the human mind is not sufficiant to grasp the concept of him as after all for the universe to understand itself it would have to be larger than itself etc.

Anyway to try to anticipate the being that you are trying to believe or not then try to first understand the tool's and for that you have to be a scientist but then as any scientist will tell you each answer reveal's more questions in an ever branching fractal pattern and only circular reasoning can come of our limited psyche which means in the end a science and a religion will if constrained by human mental shape to fit what can not be understood into our understanding both arrive at the same answer and of course it will not the ultimate or the correct answere.

Let me ask you a question, You are can you define that and not simply by trying to explain a linear approach but define it in a way that explains why you are, how you are and what you are including consciousness (not only mind but conscious awareness which even the best AI can not have).
edit on 9-6-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 10:33 AM
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I am sure that many cultures throughout history knew the earth was very old. A bone turning to rock was a good clue. They were forced by the conquering Christians to believe the earth wasn't that old. Either believe or die. I see in the bible that someone was trying to show a progression the best they knew to unite their people and provide answers to some things people were asking. How this got to be what it turned into I do not know. People blew it out of proportion and shoved their beliefs down others throats.

This subject is something that divides us, something that Jesus would have been against. It is not really that important, recognizing that there was life here long ago and it has evolved is important. Evolution does happen, even though I do not like the present theory of evolution. I see some using science to argue with other good people and it is splitting our people up more. In real life, life of the common people in this country, we mention this sometimes and change the conversation to neutral issues, like cooking or working or sports, where the subject is obviously not supposed to control your life and make you look inferior. We can't be cutting down people who comprehend things differently, we find things we have in common and discuss these neutral things...then we get along. Science has turned into something that divides us, it is just a tool meant to be used to help us. It gets hijacked and used against people all the time, just as the crusaders forced their beliefs on others. Some of the Pagan societies were good, but of course not in the eyes of the crusaders who wanted to conquer them. That is in the past, it remains in history so we can learn from our mistakes.

So now that I am done babbling about my beliefs I have to say. The more divided our societies are, the more we argue amongst ourselves. The more we argue amongst ourselves, the less we look at the corruption going on at high levels of society. Does this open your eyes at all?



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The Bible is neither a science book nor a history book. It's not going to answer every question and trying to contort it to do so is an exercise in futility. Yeah, I'm talking to YOU, Bishop Ussher. 1600's though, so we can forgive that at this point.

You won't find an apple pie recipe in there either nor instructions on how to repack the wheel bearings on a boat trailer.

So there's your answer - wrong book.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse

This is true though conquerers whom were christian by denomination (faith is another matter) are not really christian conquerers even though they did force there personal interpretation onto those people.
I love to throw a spanner in the work's even though I myself am a christian by faith (though a poor low grade one as I am also too hypocritical at times to my eminent shame) but here is an interesting site, many of these tales are from time's when the geological sciences were in there infancy and modern science was not yet established or at any level of uniformity across the world but even so and though they can now not be confirmed for the most part they are good tales to chew on that are worthy of being included in this thread though at a tangent to the actual question as like pandora's box they open up hypothetical avenues of discussion about what is the percieved reality and the factual one.
www.delusionresistance.org...
and of course bear in mind the validity of these tales is in some dispute due to the question of source and the reliability of those sources (not provided by the page) and the age of the story's listed.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 12:25 PM
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Answers to 1 and 2 by a priest. Because he is omnipotent my son do not question it just have faith.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: jester420

2: How was the world created? I know that according to the bible,God created the earth, but how?
Magic.
There was the Abyss, then the spirit hovered over it, wooed the chaos to become an ocean and to give up land from it to make a garden on.

God did not make the earth, He made the earth a place to live on, where before, it would have been impossible.
So it is in a figurative sense, that He caused it to take shape.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

I like that link. This is how I understand this subject from looking at the way the research is designed. I know the Earth is old, I know that there were mass dieoffs of creatures throughout it's history. I cannot say that their way of dating things is correct though. It does not really matter anyway. Lots of things could have happened in the lats million or more years. The earth could have gone through severe seizmic events and the ground liquified and things Could have sunk deep into the earth. The magnetic field could have flipped badly long ago and the atmosphere temporarily thinned. There could have been major catastrophes that caused the skies to be covered. This coupled with possible rearrangement of the crust could have caused all sorts of disturbances that could make our testing methods not correct. I am sure the earth has gone through some turmoil.

What I can't really understand is how oil got below the water in the earth. Seems like oil would be on top of the water. I have read some explanations of this but they just don't seem right.

Oh well, doesn't really matter. I am forced to accept the theories others believe and know someday someone may get it right. Who is right, Christians who push creationism or people who believe in Evolution and push it as real....neither, it really doesn't matter. I lived and worked most my life without even thinking about these things. I raised a family and built some houses and did lots of construction work and never talked to anyone about this subject. I even had two different ministers working for me for periods of time and neither even mentioned religion on the job. I worked building the house of a Geological Engineer that worked at the mine and we never talked about rocks or geology at all. We talked about what was happening at the time.

We need to enjoy life, not get argue about how the earth was created. Most of the good stuff Christianity created is integrated into the society we live in...except it got twisted by greed and desire for power. All religions have some good to them, mostly in the people that believe in them. Yet we argue over little things.

I know this sounds kind of off the wall to be saying stuff like this in a conspiracy site, but what the hell....the devil made me do it.




posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: jester420
I was having a great conversation with my farther last night. He is a pentecostal christian, and my self had been to church for about 6 years in my youth, as well as going to a private christian college,
I ask some questions and he found them really hard to answer, using the bible proved no help.
1: When, according to your belief, was the world created? Proof/evidence needed, as in particular bible verses.
2: How was the world created? I know that according to the bible,God created the earth, but how?

Please let me know what you think.


Firstly, Namaste, my friend. May this day find you with Peace and Divine Love. I am always happy that someone is questioning the reality that you perceive with your physical eyes. I say, "perceive with your physical eyes," is because this reality is not what it seems. So in order to understand what it Really seems, then you must go deeper inside of you. This reality is to help you grow from within, as an individual and as a collective consciousness. So with that introduction, allow me to answer your questions.

1. Yes, this Planet Earth was created. It was created way after the Universe was created. You see, the Earth is young comparably to the whole. But in human terms, it's not that young. It is about 3.5 Billion years old. This contradicts both the Christian beliefs and the scientific community. Are humans that old? No. The Earth existed way before any of the human race was around. I will not go into details of all that. Time will show you the way.

2. Knowing how the Earth was created is a curiosity of the "scientific, precise mind." What I'm saying is that you are contemplating the understanding of creation through the male mind. But that's okay, it's just one way of looking at it. Allow me to give you a brief synopsis of how it was created. I can't go into great detail, because it is hard for you to believe at this moment with your consciousness. As your consciousness rise to the next few levels, it's perfectly fine to go deeper into this subject. But I hope this information will help you find the path to higher awareness.

As I said before, the Universe was already around for a long, long time before Earth was created. Because you see, the Universe continually expands every second of the day. Even scientists can tell you this. The Big Bang Theory is correct. I will refer you to a small section in my thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is a quote from that thread:

"It all started with a Black Hole, and from its center of one moment of Singularity, it exploded outwards with the Power of the Father (Alpha) Aspect of God. But as it exploded outwards, there was the Mother (Omega) Aspect of God that went inwards, forming the Star Systems and Planets within you see today. This is the Big Bang Theory scientists talk about. Remember that this was the FIRST Universe. Our Universe is One of out of many Universes."


This only describes the creation of the First Universe. The Earth was not created from the Big Bang Theory, since our Universe was already there. The Earth came from God's Mind--a manifestation of Light from the Consciousness of Source. It was not "spoken" into creation. To better understand the quote above and how God creates things, you may need to read my post about the Holy Trinity: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes I know, if you want to understand creation, you must have much prior knowledge of how the Universe works. So please read the posts I'm giving you. So with that knowledge, you must also realize that a lot of the Bibles out there today, they are not translated correctly. Most of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. So "God" in parts of Genesis was actually called "Elohim," which meant "gods." Yes, it was plural. Let's read a small portion of Genesis below with Elohim. Please note that "Ruach" means Spirit. This means the "Spirit of Elohim." Remember that there is only ONE Spirit that moves into everything.



"1 In the beginning Elohim created heaven and earth.

2 The Earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Ruach Elohim was hovering over the water.

3 Then Elohim said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 Elohim saw the light was good. So Elohim separated the light from the darkness. 5 Elohim named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning—the first day."


So you see, although there were "many gods" who got together and created Earth, there was only ONE Spirit of God that moved into Earth. These "many gods" were known as the Creator Gods, or simply the Elohim. These were the 7 Elohim of Creation. Though they are "Seven." They are still from the Mind of God mentioned earlier--The Light of the ONE Consciousness of the Universe. Another thing to understand is that all things are created from Darkness. That's why you see the Bible say, "The Earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water." And from this Darkness, The Light of God's Consciousness (Ma-ter Light, Mother Aspect) moves into creation. Hence, you get, "Then Elohim said, 'Let there be light!' So there was light."

This is a very short summary of what happened. But I wanted to give you something to ponder so that your memory of creation will Light up your Heart. Because you already know all of this and much more. I just wanted to trigger your memories. With all of God's Love, Namaste.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
I'm Christian ... I'll answer.
But please be aware, different Christians will have different answers.

2: How was the world created?
The exact method of creation ... still debated. Current and most plausible theory is the big bang theory.


The big bang theory states that matter condensed itself so tightly in the middle if the universe it exploded. Genesis says in the beginning there was a void- everything in the universe beyond that clump of matter was pure void.

God said 'let there be light' An explosion big enough to start if the entire universe as we know it today would have caused light.

I've seen in an encyclopedia britannica yearbook (1987 I think) a timeline of the big bang and apparently if you take the 7 days if creation idea as being relative, not literally 7 x 24 hour periods, it is pretty much accurate as a timeline from beginning of creation to the birth of man.

There are enough parallels between the creation story and the big bang theory for it to be at least possible that the creation story is an extremely over simplified version of the big bang story.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Ok, so how long ago was the beginning?
And how do you know that he SPOKE everything into exsistance?
The bible says the first thing he SPOKE into exsistance was LIGHT?
Or am I wrong on that?



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: yeahright

But isnt this book all Christians really have to base thier religion on?
Wouldnt that make everything else anecdotal?
I honestly think that every time Christianaty conflicts with science, and outright rejects it, shouldnt their be some substance in this book?



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: jester420

I'm a Christian.

I'll give it a shot.

6 billion years ago.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 06:30 PM
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Jester,

There is something called the "Gap Theory". The idea is that there is a "gap" of time, of undetermined length, between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, that the original creation of the universe and earth occurred in Genesis 1:1, followed by some sort of cataclysmic destruction of the earth, and then a reforming/renewing of the earth beginning in Genesis 1:2. I won't go into any more details than that, but some feel that it allows for a harmonization between what science tells us about things like the age of the earth and the account in Genesis.

There are variations of the theory, it's not without critics and I'm neither advocating for it nor advocating against it. However, if the questions you mentioned in the op are important to you, the Gap Theory might be something you want to look into and form your own opinion on.



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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1) Can't really be be answered just yet...
I'd put it into the billions, but Earth could also be many hundreds of millions of years old!!!

2) This is easier to answer...
The Big Bang caused a mass of Chemicals to spill out faster than Light speed...
These Chemicals collided and congealed into Gases & Liquids expanding into empty Space...
Chemical reactions between the Gases & Liquids created solid MegaComet like lumps that traversed Space without direction or purpose... Yet...
Gravitational effect from the giant Gas balls started pulling these solid MegaComets into their field... Giving them direction...
Billions of these collide over billions of years growing larger & larger... Forming the Planets... Giving them purpose!!!

Because Rome wasn't built in a Day!!!

What caused the Big Bang?... The Goddess Nut I believe!!!
So I take no offence when someone says I'm Nut's... Because I do belong to the Goddess!!!


Peace everybody!!!



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973

The big bang was the conception and firing up of a pineal gland. Somewhere in the time of mammalian bi-peds. But experienced in the before time. that is the true true.
edit on 9-6-2014 by metalholic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: jester420
I was having a great conversation with my farther last night. He is a pentecostal christian, and my self had been to church for about 6 years in my youth, as well as going to a private christian college,
I ask some questions and he found them really hard to answer, using the bible proved no help.
1: When, according to your belief, was the world created? Proof/evidence needed, as in particular bible verses.
2: How was the world created? I know that according to the bible,God created the earth, but how?

Please let me know what you think.


1: The world and the universe were created before I was born and will be here after I die.
2: The world and the universe began when God said "let there be light" and there was light.

That may have started the Big Bang, and scientists don't even know what caused the Big Bang. I find it amazing how non-believers will say they don't even believe, but will believe the Big Bang, but that belief has nothing to do with the answer. But then they automatically give the answer they believe, then say it is nothing about belief.

But you have just as much faith in the natural process that can't even be proven, yet you can't believe in God, because you say God can't be proven.

Why don't you ask those believers in science, "What caused the Big Bang?"

(Crickets chirping in the background)

If you are looking for faith in something to explain how you got here, why aren't you more concerned about why you are here? It really does take a lot of faith to say the Big Bang is responsible for you being here when you can't even know how the Big Bang happened. You are here now, you might believe you are the product of millions of years of mutations, but it doesn't explain why you are here. And that is what you are going to have to ask God about.

You live and die like we all do, the earth was here before you and will be here after you. What you do in this life is what counts, but we all go down into the grave. A thousand years from now it will not matter to anyone that you were here. If random mutations made you that worthless, then that's the sum total of your existence. Nothing.

How's that for natural processes? But if you want to feel worth, then the Big Bang will not provide that for you. There is not one scientist who is anti-theist and believes (yes, BELIEVES and HAS FAITH in) who can ever assign worth to you as a human being, because you are really just a mutant species, a by product of evolutionary processes.

And that's the difference when it comes to God, you are worth something.

But hey, it's your choice to believe however you want. Now every anti-theist will say I am wrong, but can they show me ANY part of the natural processes of evolution that gives worth to any species?



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: jester420

well for one the entire premise that the bible says the world was created in X amount of years is the product of a scientific mind looking at different events in it and trying to extrapolate a date. The problem is that if you look to Genesis, the version of modern bibles differs greatly in terms of actual words used. The term "day" referring to the 7 days of creation was actually a Hebrew word that meant several things, like all hebrew words. It is more accurately translated as "ages".

So it took 7 ages to fill the earth. Also,

The term "was void and empty" is actually meant to say "was judged and made empty and void". There was a previous creation referred to in Genesis that God judged and destroyed. He RECREATED life is all. The world was always there even on the first "day" of creation.

You want to REALLY understand the bible? Take a mechanical translation of HEBREW into english. It is an entirely more accurate story.

Genesis never says a day to god is a 24 hour period. That is what ill informed minds have added to make it easier to understand without having to actually read the truth about it.

Genesis could have taken place over millions of years. ADAM means red man /men. It does not necessarily refer to a singular person but can refer to an entire group.

The Adamic version of creation.....homosapiens.


EDIT TO ADD:
Here is good resource which I quickly pulled up from a quick search.

www.ecclesia.org...

It goes into detail about the meaning behind the words FORMED and MADE. Later translations understood the words to be the same thing. In hebrew they mean completely different things. I am not necessarily in agreement with the presence of page, but I do agree with their assessment of the translations.

Formed implies a previous creation being molded. Made means created from scratch.

There are countless nuances to the terminology used that must be understood first before we can even begin to grasp what is being told in Genesis.

edit on 6 9 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)
edit on 6 9 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
HOWEVER and WHENEVER the world was created, it was done so by God's guiding hand. He is the creator and He can use whatever method, in whatever time frame, He wishes.

Excellent summary. I am perfectly OK with not knowing precisely how or why God created the universe.

Some might ask "Why are you OK with not knowing?" Well, because I am not God, nor will I ever be. Know thy place.

I have observed that a big obstruction for many people when it comes to having faith in a divine Creator is that they believe in some way that they are deserving of immediate answers to the BIG questions. If they cannot have immediate and complete knowledge of the divine mysteries in the mind of God, they refuse to have faith.

Rest assured, on this earth we will never know how and why God created the universe. He did it how He wanted to, and it's not for us to know yet. If He gave us all the answers right now, all His knowledge, we would be God too, and how hard would it be to have faith? The sooner everyone accepts that, the better off we'll be IMHO.

Peace



posted on Jun, 9 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: InTheFlesh1980

I dont want to derail this thread, but its not impossible to grasp what is being said. It is not really about faith. Its about the reality that actual study reveals and the truth that is only hidden to those that have failed to search beyond a superficial understanding. That superficial understanding was gained and proliferated to the masses when far less resources existed to accurately translate the story. Also some measure of malice can be attributed to a dumbed down version which was taught and a more complex and richer version that was and is reserved for an elite within religious orders.

Faith is for other things. It is not necessary for what is as clear as day, if we would only sit and study.

for those who truly believe in God and the power of the word. Study it and learn it the way it was written, not the way it was framed by parties with vested interests.

This is a PDF of a mechanical translation of Genesis WORD FOR WORD. It is the one of the most accurate translation you can get.

www.ancient-hebrew.org...

THAT is how Gods words was received.

EDIT TO ADD:
The column on the left is the literal translation of the words. The one on the right is the literal translation organized appropriately so as to make it coherent in english while maintaining a faithful translation in line with the original concept.

This is the pre constantine , pre gnostic, pre nicene, pre vatican council version. This has no ulterior motives ingrained in the meaning. It is Gods word unchanged by mortal men.

edit on 6 9 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2014 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Maybe somewhere between the two answers in that gray middle ground both are correct.
What if the oil is not what they think, and they cry unto the hill's and mountains fall on us to cover us from the face of he whom come's, and the blood was as high as the bridle's of the horses for many stadia, There is NOTHING NEW under the sun, what if the oil is not just decayed biological matter from plant's and micro organisma which sank in ancient times was buried on the bed of the ocean then took millions of years to decay as well as being crushed and chemically altered by heat and pressure but instead it was also the residue of the biological being's whom were subjected to PREVIOUS judgement day's as after all it is a Harvest and a farmer uses the same field more than once.
Sorry for the horrible idea it is not a theory but what if?.
Evil grow's out of hand and overcomes the goodness suppressing it in cultures of greed and selfishness driven by personal desires while suffering also reached unimaginabe level's and resources become scarce so since it is the Soul which is god's primary concern where we are concerned maybe he periodically purges the planet to refresh and restore it, perhaps some of what the buddhists believe is actually correct as well and some souls have to be put back until the grow out of the evil or show themselves to be evil and are thus disposed of to where they belong, certainly before emperor constantine many christian sects at the time before nicea believed in reincarnation and references they used where apparantly not included in the bible when it was compiled or were rephrased to not suggest such but the chariot of ezekial would be identified as the ultimate god sitting over the wheels of reincarnation by a hindu or buddhist.
The wheel of Dharma is actually a buddhist reimagining of a hindu reincarnation symbol
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
It represents the passage of the soul through many life times in search of perfection which the buddhists believe can be acheived thus freeing there soul from the wheel or grind stone and allowing them to become one with god.
Then you have Ezekiels chariot and jewish mysticism
en.wikipedia.org...
www.aish.com...
www.chabad.org...
www.chabad.org...

The reason that was posited as possible by some historians for why Hellena and Emperor constantine her son removed reference to reincarnation from the early christian bible was that if people thought they had many life time's to fix there way's they would never repent, who know's maybe it was god's will and maybe they were right and after all through christ the perfect man we were offered the only realistic way to escaping the constant cycle of death.
Budda means' enlightened one which most buddhists in the east forget and christ is described as the great light shining unto the people living in darkness.
The passage where christ say's I shall come unto each as one of there own though is not a reincarnation passage but mean's through the gospel.
Personally though I do not believe or want to believe in reincarnation but there are some very interesting tales around the world (Which could also be explained as possession or clarevoyance though), however there are some other striking similarity's, many years ago in a small valley in the region of china bordering the himalayas some chinese archeaologists found a buddhist monk whom had allowed or ordered himself entombed alive, he was mummified still sitting cross legged in a posture or prayer or meditation holding his prayer bead's and when the had sceintists asked if there were any legend's to explain there find they were told of an enlightened monk whom had saved the village from a famine, he was in a cave with the entrance stoned up just like the legend and after they removed his body the village in the valley suffered mudslides and ill fortune so the superstitious people asked for his body to put back which it was and the cave was resealed, after the village then settled back to there normal but simple way of life,. According to there legend he had taken there ill karma onto himself during a time of starvation and famine in order to save the village and they saw him as a protective spirit still keeping the ill karma a bay, so he believed or they believed he could transferre guilt and atone for it by suffering on there behalf in order to appease the universe and prayed until he died of starvation or dehydration in that cave (though it is also possible he was just a hermit and it was a local legend, it is also possible some christian idea's filtered over time into that part of the world and were adopted into the earlier religion due to some shared belief's).

The more you look, the more complicated and the more you can lose your way but the truth is that if you believe in god it is a matter of faith between you and him.
edit on 10-6-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)






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