Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

Here is another unfortunate case in which a young man died recently at Tanglewood Wellness Center thanks to Lockman and associates...

loren lockman tanglewood HAZARDOUS.


tanglewood loren lockman "wellness" fasting retreat


sexta-feira, 30 de Maio de 2014




RECENT UPDATE - ANOTHER DEATH



RECENT UPDATE


My condolences to the family of Jonathan, who recently died at tanglewood.

I do sincerely hope, that the FBI´s investigation culminates in the complete eradication of loren lockman´s defrauding activities.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Wanting desperately to know what happened to a fellow faster of mine named Jonathan. He was severely underweight and he fasted at the same time that I did under the supervision of Loren Lockman. Anyone happen to know what happened and what went down? We all want and kind of need to know as we all will or have fasted one time or another.
This is very disturbing to say the least and if we get the truth it shall make things more clear.

Jon was a very smart man in his thrities and he was married. He talked very highly of his life with his wife in COlorado. He missed her very very much and it was all he liked to talk about. He kept telling me how much his wife begged for him to come home..I toldhim to break the fast if he didn't feel like going the full 32(which he did) if he was not up to it) he said Loren reassured him that he was okay.
...

lorenlockmantanglewood.blogspot.com...


But some people keep claiming it is safe...

More testimonies about Loren Lockman's fraudulent and criminal activities.

chrisb1 Re: Going to Tanglewood Wellness Center to briefly refast and break fast properly.
PM email
Date: 4/27/2013 3:49:57 PM ( 14mo ago )
Hits: 1382 Size: 818 char. Already alerted! Already alerted!


Tanglewood is the worst place you could visit. Loren Lockman is essentially a fraudster, with no training/credentials in any health modality including fasting supervision. There are many testimonials as to the adverse events his visitors incurred after being under his care: even deaths..............
www.ripoffreport.com...

lorenlockmantanglewoodfraud.tumblr.com...

lorenlockmantanglewood.blogspot.co.uk...


Your choice but do not say we didn't warn you.

Chrisb1.

curezone.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It is "safe" to fly planes, drive cars, take a boat ride but according to wiki there were 32k traffic related fatalities in 2012. There will always be exceptions.

As far as Loren Lockman, one person or even multiple people's sin/evil does not change the benefits of water fasting.

Just because you choose not to believe the truth doesn't make it any less true.

originally posted by: QuietSpeech
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It is "safe" to fly planes, drive cars, take a boat ride but according to wiki there were 32k traffic related fatalities in 2012. There will always be exceptions.

As far as Loren Lockman, one person or even multiple people's sin/evil does not change the benefits of water fasting.

Just because you choose not to believe the truth doesn't make it any less true.

Really? I point out that several members keep claiming "it is safe to do such prolonged fasting", even after proving that this is not true, after showing the flaws and gullibility of the people in the videos shown by some of you, and even showing that many of you are not even doing your due diligence in researching frauds like Lockman... You want to keep on going and claiming I am the one not accepting the truth?... How many of you, including yourself, did a search on Lockman?... I am pretty sure you didn't even bother... You decided to just accept the word of people who are putting themselves at risk and are allowing themselves to be manipulated by frauds like Lockman...

People like you are the ones not accepting the truth... But anyways, all I can do is try to show you some facts, it is your decision whether you want to continue believing frauds, scam artists and people who have not done proper research.

BTW, the analogies you used are systematically flawed because doing such prolonged water fasting is not the same as driving and flying in a plane... What you are doing and accepting is more in par with analogies such as putting yourself in front of incoming traffic in an expressway... Or flying in a plane whose pilot and copilot have not done their proper flight training and in general don't know what they are doing... If you are going to use analogies, make sure you use the right ones... Otherwise you are just showing your gullibility even more and your willingness to be scammed and even be put at risk by frauds like Lockman while claiming "but I have the truth on my side"...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
In the fatal case, he advised a 22-year-old woman with insulin-dependent diabetes to stop taking her insulin and undergo a water-only fast. After she became acutely ill with diabetic ketoacidosis, he administered huge amounts of insulin, but she lost consciousness and died soon afterwards.

He was severely underweight and he fasted at the same time that I did under the supervision of Loren Lockman.

Just wanted to point out that this is exactly what I'm referring to when I emphasize how important it is to do it properly. If you are dependent on something like insulin, you don't just stop taking it and then fast and then give huge amounts to make up for it later. Completely stupid, to be honest. This is why you see a doctor first so you can evaluate the effect of the insulin and figure out a plan to properly ween off it, if you even can at the time. Same with the heart disease guy. I see stories like this and I just want to smack the guy who made that decision. Why would you go on an extended fast whilst underweight? I don't think that's the best approach either. It really sounds like Lockman is incompetent and hasn't been careful enough with her patients. At the same time you have ask how many have fasted successfully with her, however.

BTW, the analogies you used are systematically flawed because doing such prolonged water fasting is not the same as driving and flying in a plane...

Correct. Driving is way more dangerous and has a much higher fatality rate, even if you execute it perfectly. It's not even close to the same.

People think that driving to work is safe, but it's not! Hey, I'm just spreading the truth while all these crazy folk keep telling me it's safe to drive! Nobody should ever drive to work because you can die! I'm going to argue with anybody that ever mentions driving from here on out!

I'm pretty sure more people die each year from peanut allergies than from fasting. Are you seriously going to tell me that we shouldn't eat peanuts? It can cause death, why would anybody want to put themselves at risk? It is not safe!

But anyways, I'm not trying to say that everyone should fast or that it's universal for all people. Some folks simply shouldn't do it, or if you aren't sure or have some sort of illness or condition, always see a doctor first. It can have amazing benefits, but at the same time it can be risky if you are not careful. I'm not going to stop doing it, as I have had nothing but positive results when following proper procedures. A large portion of traffic accidents could be eliminated if the few people involved were driving properly. It's the same principle. I'm not familiar with Lockman or her program, so I can't really comment on its effectiveness, but in those few cases you cited, both she and the person who chose to fast made big mistakes and didn't take the risks seriously. Hopefully people can learn from them and not repeat them.

a reply to: Barcs

No matter what you say prolonged water fasting, such as doing it for over a week or more has more detriments than any benefits.

If you want to do it yourself, it's your life, but don't claim it is safe when it is not.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Barcs

No matter what you say prolonged water fasting, such as doing it for over a week or more has more detriments than any benefits.

If you want to do it yourself, it's your life, but don't claim it is safe when it is not.

Can you prove the bolded statement? A few isolated cases of people fasting under the wrong conditions and dying doesn't prove it is unsafe. It is safe when done properly, under the right conditions. You have provided several examples of what can happen if you do it wrong.

Besides, nothing is 100% safe. Fasting is safer than eating peanuts or driving to work each day, so that is a risk I am willing to take. Do you eat peanuts or drive to work? If so, you should rethink taking that risk. I mean, it's your life, but people die all the time from it, in fact exponentially more than from fasting. The risk is MUCH higher, yet you probably do it everyday, yet claim fasting is unsafe?

originally posted by: Barcs

Can you prove the bolded statement? A few isolated cases of people fasting under the wrong conditions and dying doesn't prove it is unsafe. It is safe when done properly, under the right conditions. You have provided several examples of what can happen if you do it wrong.

Besides, nothing is 100% safe. Fasting is safer than eating peanuts or driving to work each day, so that is a risk I am willing to take. Do you eat peanuts or drive to work? If so, you should rethink taking that risk. I mean, it's your life, but people die all the time from it, in fact exponentially more than from fasting. The risk is MUCH higher, yet you probably do it everyday, yet claim fasting is unsafe?

I already did. The cases I showed were not "rare" or "isolated" as you are claiming. Those were some cases, not to mention that it is not counted how many people do not report problems arising from their fast.

Fasting for so long is not safer than eating peanuts, or driving to work each day... Again, another false analogy... Fasting for so long is as safe as putting yourself in front of incoming traffic in an expressway, because you will be doing damage to your organs, and if the people doing the long water fasting had already an eating disorder would be even at a much higher risk of causing more damage to their organs. Other people with certain health problems such as diabetes and arrhythmia among others shouldn't fast either.

Short intervals of water fasting is safer for most people as long as you don't suffer certain health problems, some of which I mentioned, but always check with your doctor and a dietician.

Why take a high risk with your health with long water fasting when fasting for a day, or for 3 days then slowly going back to healthy meals in moderation has shown to give a lot of benefits?

Longer water fasts will not give you more benefits, what you are doing is put yourself at risk and you will suffer organ damage even when you try to dismiss the problems that will come from it.

Here is a study done on people who did a day water fast a month.

By Denise Mann
WebMD Health News

Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

April 5, 2011 -- Occasional water-only fasts may lower your risk of heart disease and diabetes, according to new research presented at the annual scientific sessions of the American College of Cardiology in New Orleans.

The study was conducted in Salt Lake City, where two-thirds of the residents are Mormons who fast once a month for 24 hours for religious purposes.

In a previous study, the same team of researchers found that people who answered "yes" to the question “Do you abstain from food and drink for an extended time?” had a lower prevalence of coronary disease.

Now researchers were able to replicate and expand upon these findings. “People who fast have lower rates of coronary disease, and fasting was associated with a lower prevalence of diabetes,” says study leader Benjamin D. Horne, PhD, MPH, director of cardiovascular and genetic epidemiology at the Intermountain Medical Center Heart Institute in Salt Lake City.
...

www.webmd.com...

Other studies such as the 3 day water fast are also safe for most people,(always check with your doctor) but doing longer water fasting you are forcing your body too much and it is in fact eating itself unless you are extremely obese. Even if you are obese doing so long water fasting you will cause damage to your stomach and intestine lining.

BTW, in case you didn't know that fraud Loren Lockman conducts water fasting sessions for 2 weeks and up, and people who have been in the 2 week water fast have also suffered damage...

Not to mention that the recent death of Jonathan on March 2014 in one of Lockman's water fasting program happened within the 2 week water fast period he was doing...

lorenlockmantanglewood.blogspot.com...

Shorter than 2 weeks, and even a week water fasts can also cause damage to a lot of people.

Now look at this other case in which a woman had severe brain damage for doing water fasting for less than a week...

Page last updated at 11:08 GMT, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 12:08 UK

Woman left brain damaged by detox

A woman has been awarded more than £800,000 after she suffered permanent brain damage while on a detox diet.

The High Court heard Dawn Page, 52, began vomiting uncontrollably after starting The Amazing Hydration Diet.

Mrs Page, from Oxfordshire, later had an epileptic seizure which damaged her memory, speech and concentration.

Her nutritionist Barbara Nash has denied any wrongdoing and the High Court ratified the settlement without mention of liability.

The court heard Mrs Page, from Faringdon, near Swindon, claimed Mrs Nash told her to drink large amounts of water and reduce her salt intake when she started the diet in October 2001.

She told the High Court that when she started vomiting Mrs Nash told her it was a normal part of the detoxification process.

Less than a week into the regime, mother-of-two Mrs Page had to be taken to Princess Margaret Hospital in Swindon after suffering a severe epileptic seizure. Doctors diagnosed low salt levels in her body - known as hyponatraemia or water intoxication.
...

news.bbc.co.uk...

She wasn't epileptic, the water fasting caused the epileptic episode.

Even a day to 3 day water fast a month or yearly is not safe for everybody, which is why you should always check with your doctor.

Would you stop with the nonsense that "fasting for weeks is as safe as eating peanuts, or driving"?... That's stupid, not to mention dangerous and if you seriously believe that claim you made you probably already have brain damage...

BTW, just so you know, another example of a fraudster who claimed he was a doctor and wasn't, and whose water fasting programs caused 6 deaths within a 5 year period was Dr. Shelton who had a Health School in Texas.

...
1n 1982, there was an investigative report in the Los Angeles Daily Journal of the death of a 49 year old man from pneumonia caused by malnutrition during a 30 day fast at a naturopathic health clinic. It was one of six reported deaths from fasting within the preceding five years in that clinic sponsored by Dr. Shelton’s Health School in Texas. 49
...

theyogadr.com...

The above is not counting the people who suffered other health problems including organ damage.

...
Sometimes the side effects of fasting are considered a part of a ‘healing crisis’ and are disregarded. From a news report, one man who was fasting with Herbalife, a very-low-calorie diet fast, ignored serious symptoms of cardiac myopathy that developed. When he passed out from fasting, his wife urged him to see a doctor but he didn’t make it there. He collapsed again and died in front of his 4-year-old daughter.50

Children are particularly susceptible to damage from long term fasting. From a 1995 bulletin put out by the National Council Against Health Fraud, the following cases were among those reported:
•Case. A 3.5 yr-old girl died of malnutrition and pneumonia following a 27-day water fast [6]. Her parents were disciples of a naturopath, Kenneth Jaffrey, who believed that fasting was beneficial. The couple placed the little girl on a diet of distilled water for 27 days to clean her body of toxins that they believed had built up through exposure to orthodox medicine. At death, the child was half of her expected weight.
•Case. A 9-year-old girl died in Ottawa, Canada while on a water-only diet for 40-days. Mellissa Larochelle was treated at home in the northern Ontario town of Hearst with the diet which, according to provincial police “apparently has some religious overtones to it. It’s somehow connected to the 40 days and nights Jesus fasted and its supposed to purge your system,” they said. Mellissa was seized by the Children’s Aid Society and hospitalized in Ottawa but died on March 16, 1990. The girl’s grandmother, Rollande Turgeon, 55, was sentenced to 6 months in jail on January 18, 1991 after pleading guilty to negligence causing bodily harm. Turgeon had taken courses and was accredited by the American Hygiene Association. She operated a so-called fasting clinic at her house. Turgeon was treating Mellissa for an ear infection. In passing sentence the judge said that Turgeon had made a grave error in judgment by not contacting doctors sooner. He stated that “she was blinded by the principles of fasting and didn’t believe in medical intervention.”

Conclusion

So, is fasting good for you or not?

The answer is, “Yes!.” There are definitely health benefits of fasting when it is part of well-planned and well-executed regimen.

Careful though – caution must be exercised. When done incorrectly, there are dangerous side effects of fasting. Think twice before fad fasting with the Master Cleanse or any other severely restricted diet for several days.

As a last word of caution, pregnant or breast-feeding women and anyone who has kidney or liver problems should avoid fasting. Neither should anyone fast who suffers from an eating disorder. If you’re on medications, please check with a physician before fasting as many, like prednisone and some diabetes meds, may lead to serious complications when combined with a lack of food.
...

theyogadr.com...

Fasting more than a few days and you are putting yourself at an increasing exponential risk of damage to your organs and even death from water fasting the longer you fast.

There is no real reason to fast more than a day or three days as long as you don't have certain health conditions, and as long as you check with your doctor and a dietician.

originally posted by: Barcs


Fasting is not starvation, so any health problems associated with that do not apply. Starvation is when the body digests its own organs to survive.
...

I went back to check some of your other claims and it seems more and more obvious you don't know what you are talking about and you are making up your own definitions as you go along...

starve verb ˈstärv

: to suffer or die from lack of food : to suffer extreme hunger

www.merriam-webster.com...

That's the meaning of starvation/to starve...

originally posted by: Barcs
...
Of course there are health problems associated with starvation, but that is a red herring, because fasting doesn't do that. If you run out of fat and muscle, then YES, it begins digesting your organs. THAT is starvation. This is why I say most issues I see are user error. Clearly if you don't break the fast when extreme hunger pangs begin, you are doing it wrong.
...

Your heart is an organ formed mostly of MUSCLE...

The heart is a hollow muscular organ that pumps blood throughout the blood vessels to various parts of the body by repeated, rhythmic contractions.[1] It is found in all animals with a circulatory system, which includes the vertebrates.[2]
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Not to mention that your lungs also use some muscles to breathe.

...
The Respiratory System

The respiratory system is made up of organs and tissues that help you breathe. The main parts of this system are the airways, the lungs and linked blood vessels, and the muscles that enable breathing.
...

www.nhlbi.nih.gov...

When you are forcing yourself to starve for so long your body has been already using muscles, including from organs such as your heart and lungs.

Even before your body runs out of fat, even within a few days to a week + your body is ALREADY using muscle for nutrition.

Starvation
Starvation results from the inadequate intake of nutrients or the inability to metabolize or absorb nutrients. It can have a number of causes such as prolonged fasting, anorexia, deprivation, or disease. No matter what the cause, starvation takes about the same course and consists of three phases. The events of the first two phases occur even during relatively short periods of fasting or dieting, but the third phase occurs only in prolonged starvation and can end in death.

During the first phase of starvation, blood glucose levels are maintained through the production of glucose from glycogen, proteins, and fats. At first glycogen is broken down into glucose. However, only enough glycogen is stored in the liver to last a few hours. Thereafter, blood glucose levels are maintained by the breakdown of proteins and fats. Fats are decomposed into fatty acids and glycerol. Fatty acids can be used as a source of energy, especially by skeletal muscle, thus decreasing the use of glucose by tissues other than the brain. Glycerol can be used to make a small amount of glucose, but most of the glucose is formed from the amino acids of proteins. In addition, some amino acids can be used directly for energy.
...

www.mhhe.com...

You are making a lot of claims that are nothing more than misinterpretations and lies, not to mention dangerous.

Oh thank goodness.

I misread the title of the thread and thought it said 'Fisting' for three days...I wasn't going to have a bean of that!

a reply to: Indigent

Here's another study that supports the idea that fasting is good for the body.

Fastin g converts bad cholesterol in fat cells to energy, combating diabetes risk factors

...new research on periodic fasting has identified a biological process in the body that converts bad cholesterol in fat cells to energy, thus combating diabetes risk factors.

Researchers at the Intermountain Heart Institute at Intermountain Medical Center in Murray, Utah, noticed that after 10 to 12 hours of time fasting, the body starts scavenging for other sources of energy throughout the body to sustain itself. The body pulls LDL (bad) cholesterol from the fat cells and uses it as energy.

"Fasting has the potential to become an important diabetes intervention," ....

originally posted by: QuietSpeech
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It is "safe" to fly planes, drive cars, take a boat ride but according to wiki there were 32k traffic related fatalities in 2012. There will always be exceptions.

Here's my view of the car analogy.

Taking an extended fast isn't anything like riding inside a car, it's more like Maya here riding on top of a skiing car instead of sitting inside with her seatbelt fastened:

You have an excellent chance of living through the extended fast, or through riding on top of a skiing car, but both are far more dangerous than the more sensible alternatives.

I think it's a safe bet that over 99% of the medical community thinks the risks of extended fasts outweighs any possible benefits.

Regarding shorter fasts, such as the three-day type this thread is about, the research mentioned in the OP story isn't yet complete, and the jury is still out. It's also a safe bet that the shorter the fast the lower the risk to your health, so 3 days of fasting carries much less risk than 14 or 28 days. The three day fast might even have some benefits for sick people with cancer on chemotherapy, if the OP story research is confirmed next year, but even this isn't a foregone conclusion.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
I already did. The cases I showed were not "rare" or "isolated" as you are claiming. Those were some cases, not to mention that it is not counted how many people do not report problems arising from their fast.

No, you didn't prove that. You specifically claimed that fasting for longer than 1 week is always more detrimental than beneficial. You have not backed that up. A study of lab rats being force fasted does not correlate to humans, I'm sorry.

Fasting for so long is not safer than eating peanuts, or driving to work each day... Again, another false analogy...

Oh really? Can you break down the math on that for me? Let's compare the % of people who die in car accidents with the percentage of people who die while fasting. Flat out logic says that since car accidents are one of the leading causes of death in the US, that it's not even remotely close, not to mention that most people drive EVERY day. People who fast do it maybe once a year. The risk is exponentially greater to even step into a car.

Fasting for so long is as safe as putting yourself in front of incoming traffic in an expressway, because you will be doing damage to your organs, and if the people doing the long water fasting had already an eating disorder would be even at a much higher risk of causing more damage to their organs. Other people with certain health problems such as diabetes and arrhythmia among others shouldn't fast either.

Absurd analogy. Organ damage comes after your fat reserves are low. You are speaking like organ damage is guaranteed. Stop spreading disinfo like that. It's not guaranteed unless you fast while under weight.

Short intervals of water fasting is safer for most people as long as you don't suffer certain health problems, some of which I mentioned, but always check with your doctor and a dietician.

I couldn't disagree more. When you do the short fasting 1-3 days, once a week, it is WAY more risky and can lead directly to bulimia and anorexia. It is not healthy to constantly bring your body in and out of survival mode. It leads to binge eating followed up by non eating, followed up by binge eating... It's terrible for your metabolism.

Why take a high risk with your health with long water fasting when fasting for a day, or for 3 days then slowly going back to healthy meals in moderation has shown to give a lot of benefits?

Why claim that it is a high risk? I don't care what you say, if done properly, checking with a doctor first, the risk is NOT HIGH AT ALL. You act like they are playing Russian Roulette when it is safer than even being a passenger in a car!

doing longer water fasting you are forcing your body too much and it is in fact eating itself unless you are extremely obese. Even if you are obese doing so long water fasting you will cause damage to your stomach and intestine lining.

What do you mean by "you are forcing your body too much?" The reason we have fat reserves is specifically so that we can burn them when faced with hunger. That's how the body naturally functions. I fast every year, and I've gotten my stomach checked recently, where they send the tube down and check everything. No damage at all, yet I long fast every year.

lorenlockmantanglewood.blogspot.com...

Shorter than 2 weeks, and even a week water fasts can also cause damage to a lot of people.

In the article itself it says that he was "severely underweight." Why are you quoting the same study twice? I already clearly told you that fasting while severely underweight is not smart. Lockman should have known this, and Jonathan as well. Obviously Jonathan didn't do the research and Lockman isn't as knowledgeable as she claims. When I say people need to fast properly it means specifically not fasting if you are underweight, let alone SEVERELY underweight. That's like driving a car when you are legally blind and don't have your glasses.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Are you even reading the articles you post? It says nothing about fasting. She went on some fad weight loss diet. It wasn't fasting, it was a detox diet, in which the specifics were not mentioned.

Would you stop with the nonsense that "fasting for weeks is as safe as eating peanuts, or driving"?... That's stupid, not to mention dangerous and if you seriously believe that claim you made you probably already have brain damage...

No I won't stop with that because it's 100% true and you just deny it. Exponentially more people die from car accidents then from fasting. This is a fact. You may not like that fact, but you still haven't cited a case of water fasting that was done properly and led to problems. Planes are one of the safest methods of travel, but they do crash and people die.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
theyogadr.com...

Modern medical science shows us that fasting is also a great way to support health of the physical body and to prevent disease, but to be healthy, fasting must be done correctly.

Here's a direct quote from the article. It must be done correctly.

Contrary to what some critics of fasting purport, fasting is not starving. The words don’t mean the same, and the physiology is not the same either. They’re related, but starvation is an extreme or prolonged period of inadequate food supply that taxes the body to the point of its inability to compensate. It implies a period of suffering, both physically and mentally. You can even be eating, just not getting enough calories and the right nutrients, and still be starving to death.

Another quote from your article. It seems to agree with me.

Sometimes the side effects of fasting are considered a part of a ‘healing crisis’ and are disregarded. From a news report, one man who was fasting with Herbalife, a very-low-calorie diet fast, ignored serious symptoms of cardiac myopathy that developed. When he passed out from fasting, his wife urged him to see a doctor but he didn’t make it there. He collapsed again and died in front of his 4-year-old daughter.50

You keep bringing up things that have nothing to do with fasting. This isn't water fasting. Stop equating it. And I'm well aware that children should not be fasted. I have already stated this, yet you keep acting like fasting is this universally evil thing but bring up irrelevant points against it. You seem to REALLY want fasting to be bad.

The answer is, “Yes!.” There are definitely health benefits of fasting when it is part of well-planned and well-executed regimen.

Careful though – caution must be exercised. When done incorrectly, there are dangerous side effects of fasting. Think twice before fad fasting with the Master Cleanse or any other severely restricted diet for several days.

Master cleanse isn't a fast! Fasting isn't is a restricted diet.

As a last word of caution, pregnant or breast-feeding women and anyone who has kidney or liver problems should avoid fasting. Neither should anyone fast who suffers from an eating disorder. If you’re on medications, please check with a physician before fasting as many, like prednisone and some diabetes meds, may lead to serious complications when combined with a lack of food.
...

Funny I've probably said this exact same thing in my posts. Key word, check with a physician.

There is no real reason to fast more than a day or three days as long as you don't have certain health conditions, and as long as you check with your doctor and a dietician.

I've healed my knee by extended fasting after I sprained it and the pain just wouldn't go away. Fasting helped it heal. There are reasons. Weight loss should NEVER be the primary reason. When folks fast for the wrong reasons it leads to problems. Fasting isn't a diet. It isn't a replacement for good food and exercise. It isn't some fad thing to lose weight. When people treat it like that, it is very easy to make mistakes.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
I went back to check some of your other claims and it seems more and more obvious you don't know what you are talking about and you are making up your own definitions as you go along...

starve verb ˈstärv

: to suffer or die from lack of food : to suffer extreme hunger

www.merriam-webster.com...

That's the meaning of starvation/to starve...

Um, do you not understand that the definition you posted exactly agrees with me? "To suffer or die from lack of food." Fasting is not starvation. You aren't dying, you are still getting nutrients from fat reserves. You gotta be kidding me quoting a simple definition like that when you posted an article in your previous response that clearly said:

"Contrary to what some critics of fasting purport, fasting is not starving. The words don’t mean the same, and the physiology is not the same either. They’re related, but starvation is an extreme or prolonged period of inadequate food supply that taxes the body to the point of its inability to compensate. It implies a period of suffering, both physically and mentally. You can even be eating, just not getting enough calories and the right nutrients, and still be starving to death."

So is your article right or wrong? Are you using it to prove something besides my side?

The heart is a hollow muscular organ that pumps blood throughout the blood vessels to various parts of the body by repeated, rhythmic contractions.[1] It is found in all animals with a circulatory system, which includes the vertebrates.[2]
...

Thanks Bill Nye! Now what does that have to do with anything I said? I know the heart is muscle and force fasting lab rats doesn't prove that you lose heart muscle while fasting. A fast should end before you completely run out of fat, let alone muscle. Remember that whole thing about fasting CORRECTLY? If you don't break the fast before you are completely out of fat and also muscle, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

When you are forcing yourself to starve for so long your body has been already using muscles, including from organs such as your heart and lungs.

Prove it.

Starvation
Starvation results from the inadequate intake of nutrients or the inability to metabolize or absorb nutrients.

Did you not read the very first line? "Inadequate intake of nutrients". When you fast you still gain adequate nutrients. So that means everything you quoted below takes the lack of nutrients into account, which really does not happen during fasting until the reserves are nearly depleted.

You are making a lot of claims that are nothing more than misinterpretations and lies, not to mention dangerous.

You just defined all three of your posts in one line. You have yet to provide any solid proof that fasting longer than a week always causes damage or provide a single case where somebody fasted properly yet died of starvation. You have posted tons of things that are irrelevant to fasting completely or have been clear cases of not properly fasting. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you posted it, because people should know the risks, but your conclusions are grossly exaggerated.

10 common myths about fasting

Here's a good article that everyone should read. It clearly explains many of the misconceptions that you have brought up in this thread. Specifically check out #1, #2, #4, #8, #9, and #10.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
Here's my view of the car analogy.

Taking an extended fast isn't anything like riding inside a car, it's more like Maya here riding on top of a skiing car instead of sitting inside with her seatbelt fastened:

You have an excellent chance of living through the extended fast, or through riding on top of a skiing car, but both are far more dangerous than the more sensible alternatives.

Nonsense. Driving or even riding in a car is exponentially more risky than fasting and it's not even close.

It's like I said above. Planes are one of the safest methods of transportation, but they still crash. The actual risk of dying in a plane crash is something like .0001%. Fasting is more comparable to that, although I still haven't seen anybody that has died from fasting properly in every contrived example that was provided. Nothing you do in life is risk free. You just have to understand that certain things are much more risky than others, and fasting isn't one of them. The car skiing thing is joke in comparison and is much more risky.

If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily eat crow and stop fasting, but thus far I haven't seen any valid evidence against it, only straw mans, equivocation and red herrings, while I have experienced numerous benefits from fasting.

a reply to: Barcs

You haven't posted ONE iota of evidence to back your claims. All you do is make up the meaning of definitions, such as the meaning of "starvation" and you twist what the evidence and people like me say.

BTW, to someone like you facts doesn't matter. You keep claiming "fasting for weeks at a time is the same as eating peanuts, or driving a car everyday"... That's how IRATIONAL you are... To someone like you who makes asinine and illogical arguments all the time facts don't matter...

Also, in case you didn't know starving yourself for weeks and more IS SUFFERING... You are suffering major hunger pangs, you will feel pain in organs which are WARNING SIGNS and people like you think "it's just normal and part of the cleansing". Not to mention the fact that even thou I showed evidence that way BEFORE you run out of fat reserves your body is already using muscle for proteins, including from your heart and lungs you want to claim the contrary.

Your body NEEDS PROTEIN and fat does not provide it. When you are starving yourself for a week and longer your body gets it's protein needs from MUSCLES. The body doesn't need just fat to survive...

Because you are not eating any proteins what the body does is reduce the size of your heart and other muscles to reserve energy and use protein, which makes your heart work twice as hard and it is part of the reason why people can die from heart arrest when doing such prolonged fasting.

Why do you think that when you try to exert your body such as walking fast, or running while on a long fast you feel nausea and feel dizzy? It's because 1, you don't have enough energy to even do what you would normally do, unless you are staying at home all day long not doing much. 2, your heart's size has decreased because your body is trying to reserve energy and is converting muscles, including your heart, as protein WHICH YOUR BODY NEEDS...

BTW, you don't have to "run out of muscle" for it to affect your health... The reduction in size in your heart makes it work twice as hard exponentially increasing the risk of cardiac arrest.

When you are going without eating for a week, and weeks at a time YOU ARE STARVING... You are not giving the nutrients, and vitamins your body NEEDS... That is the definition of starvation... Stop making up your own definitions.

But I digress. It is obvious that there is no way to make people like you understand reason, because you are not a rational person.

originally posted by: Barcs


Nonsense. Driving or even riding in a car is exponentially more risky than fasting and it's not even close.
...

You have brain damage already, go see a doctor. Either that or you are one of those people selling programs to water fast which is why you are so defensive about it, and it might be why you are making such illogical and asinine arguments...

Present PROOF for your argument with FACTS from real DOCTORS, not from blogs or videos made by people who don't know what they are talking about, and not with the made up BS that you keep making up as you go along...

a reply to: samsamm9

Always knocking Americans huh? For your information obesity is on the rise EVERYWHERE! Mexico is the fattest nation on earth. China is catching up as well. There is just as much "sugar" and corn syrup in America as there is in any industrialized world. If the Indians, Chinese, South Americans etc. were so smart they'd never let so much soda, McDonald's, KFC, etc. into their country. And they wouldn't abandon their traditional way of eating en masse!!!! Sorry to burst your anti-american bubble but we didn't invent obesity and we probably didn't invent sugar.